Seeing your skill improve is not "toxic elitism"
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I don't think showing ratings would be a big issue. Plenty other games have it, including traditional games and sports, and I wouldn't say they are on average more "plagued" by "toxic elitism" than DbD isn't also already. Elitism is more common with leaderboards, yeah, but not necessarily toxic, just good players being confident in their abilities and wanting to play with and be among more equally-proficient players. Plus in DbD it wouldn't even be (public) leaderboards, or at least that's not what's being talked about here, it would just be seeing your own rating, and perhaps that of the players in your matches. That's a rather limited realm to be "toxically elitistic" in. Basically post-game chat, which can be hidden or skipped, and which isn't even available on console platforms. Online you could just lie about your rating if you so desire, it wouldn't affect conversations and discussions much more than it does already. Same for post-game chat if they were to only show players their own rating.
That said, I also don't think not seeing ratings is a big issue. If the matchmaking is not pairing similarly-rated players often enough, this would highlight it... but it would also just do that, there's no reason to assume it would lead to the matchmaking being changed: BHVR can already see the ratings, and the reasons why matchmaking is working in the way it is would still be there. Besides, we know the system revolves around killing and surviving, so you don't actually have to wonder much after a match whether you gained or lost MMR - if you escaped or killed at least 2 survivors, you will usually have gained MMR. Plus the system working well or not is also not dependent on showing player ratings, as again BHVR can already see all of these things, and so the system has to be assumed to already be working as well as it possibly can under BHVR's prerogative, which wouldn't change.
Ultimately the decision would seem to just come down to whether people feel more good about seeing their rating increase/about having a high rating, than they feel bad about seeing it decrease/having a low rating, and I'm not sure what the right call there is. Personally I don't really mind much either way, but I always prefer having more insight, so I would probably vote to show ratings. For everyone in a match, and hell, even public leaderboards. Attach ratings to player names on the platforms and the forum. Tattoo it on their forehead.
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It's a bit strange isn't it?
Survivors being toxic to killer: It's just part of gaming nothing we can do.
Survivors being toxic to other survivors: Whoa whoa whoa let's cool it with the toxicity here no need to be elitist.
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MMR is just a number that really has no merit on skill... some people play for fun, others play to farm, some may not have great hardware, etc.
If you really want to see improvement in yourself then you have to take your gaming to the next step and do what others in your shoes would do... record your games, chases, survivor & killer, and find your own mistakes.
If you can find your own mistakes then you can improve. Your MMR wont show that because it's still just a number. A number that goes up or down based on builds, survivors, killers, maps (and map stucture) efficiency, and worst of all just plain luck... skill is just one piece of that puzzle.
Dont chase the number... chase the goal, which is to improve
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My thought entirely. Plays have landed people in high respect despite the amazing play happening in a game that was lost.
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Really now?
With that logic they can remove all killer perks from the game and delay the killer spawn by 30 seconds.
After all Otz has shown that he can still win the mayority of his games this way.
If you can't you need to shut up and get your fragile ego in check cause you clearly don't deserve a voice if you don't play this game for 8 hours a day.
I sincerely hope you realize just how idiotic this sounds. Cause that is what your mindset is in a nutshell.
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This ^^
That is the only reason. They know that the matchmaking is not working, and by hiding it we can't show how badly it is matching players, like people used to do with the old system. They don't care about toxicity. There is so much toxic behavior that they simply ignore, and even some that they have bred themselves. The toxicity argument is just an excuse.
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you can't see MMR because it doesn't work. You'd be able to see when the matchmaking takes a 20 MMR player and pairs them with a bunch of 2000 ones, and would also give killers information to avoid survivors who vastly outskill them and dodge the lobby. Even if they had it only in post game, it would be just like rank was: a verification of how awful the matchmaking actually is.
At least this way the majority of the player base is somewhat ignorant.
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The sports comparison falls apart because one is an asymmetrical game where one side has 4 players, the other has 1 player, and they work toward completely separate goals rather than the same. In hockey, it's team vs team, there isn't any handicap, and everyone is working toward the same goal (that is, scoring points by hitting the puck into the net.) comparing a game like DBD to a symmetrical sport is fairly dishonest. They aren't similar outside of both being games. That's pretty much it.
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Well I think this is mostly because they think that people will get into elitist things like "your opinion does not matter, your only have X MMR". Being at lower MMR for whatever reason can be pretty bad. I have experienced it at MOBAS and there people straightup bash you sometimes when you get into their lobby and are of a lower rank.
If we already have a problem with "toxicity" as some people claim then this should not get added to the game. It would only increase it especially if you could see other peoples MMR.
Now the question is: How do you evaluate your skill?
Lets come back to MOBAS. As you know League for an example gives you grades for your champion based on your performance. You get rewards for yourself (and your random teammates I think...) if you hit an S (with S being the highest).
While the evaluation of skill is pretty good for certain champions it lacks for other champions. Getting an S on a weaker champ or on a supporting character was much harder (at least during my day) than on a DPS or brawly champion. Support characters were even more likely to get their S when they choose to opt out their supportive role and just focus on damage...
However this "skill evaluation" had no impact on your standing and your ranking up. You could get an S and a shake of hand for this (loot) but your team could still choose to surrender 1v4 after one bad fight thus letting you loose. Points for your rank were gained and lost because of this.
This approach was interesting non the less because they seperated "Skill" from "Wins". For rank only the "win" mattered but you still had your "S Rating" to show off your skill. This rating could also give you cosmetics like taunts...pretty sweet if you were able to get one.
Maybe SBMM should have the same: Wins for "rank" and you take your points after the match for "skill". Seperating the S in SBMM and admiting a WBMM, win based match making...
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Gee that’s funny, since I play 1-2 hours max per day and still win consistently. It took me months to become competent at the game, but I put in time. The average survivor comes to this forum to cry about something they lost to; they don’t care about improving.
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Really doesn't surprise me you are singling out survivors. Both sides complain about non issues where the simple answer is get better.
Still doesn't mean what they are saying needs to be disregarded completely. Sometimes even inexperienced players make good points.
Also find it quite ironic you say we don't need to protect a bad players fragile ego but the whole reason people want mmr visible is cause they are so desperate to have their fragile ego validated that they want to game to give them belly rubs every time they win a match
Guess one persons fragile ego is worth more then others
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It isn’t ego if it’s true. No argument can get around a players mmr if it is high. Hiding it only enables bad players to talk like they know what they’re talking about.
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I would rather not see it, at all.
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One's egotism doesn't go away just because they're good at something. Excelling at something usually highlights a person's inner character.
As it doesn't look like we'll see our MMR any time soon (which sucks), I'd like to humbly request some features to make MMR more transparent.
- Ability to sort my killers based on MMR.
- Ability to see MMR changes, even if it's just a rough indication.
- Ability to see expected number of kills after a trial. When I 0k/4k, I have no idea whether that was due to particularly bad/good play that round, or matchmaking struggling with dropouts/queue times.
- An indicator that a wide gap between survivor MMR exists (only visible to survivors before the match). It wouldn't indicate who is making the MMR imbalanced, but would help people duck a lobby that'll essentially be a 3v1. After all, team quality is as important as connection quality.
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