http://dbd.game/killswitch
Survs Game Experience
I have played 40 matches doing something like a recount of which games where funny to play and I found that like 35 of that 40 matches every killer (I only play as a surv) is either tuneling or camping. Can we talk about how hard it is for us to be hooked the 70% of the game? Is so annoying and there is no kind of penalty for them I mean, they can just play noed and some stuff to tunnel and camp and we cant do nothing but be hooked all game because in individual skill surv are on a obvious disadvantage. In addition the just farm ranks braking our game experience and I really think that should (I'd rather say must) change.
Here some options:
1st Give a bloodpoint penalty to the killers when they chase, hit and hook the las surv hooked, give a bloodpoint penalty if they stay so much time close to a hooked surv
2nd Remove borrowed time and give an permanent borrowed time to survs that have recently been unhooked to avoid tunnel. If killer camps, just give that borrowed time to everyone that tryes to recue him
3rd Create a system of tunneling/camping and toxicity report and start banning people that does it intentionally just to farm some ranks, like if there is some reports for toxicity, let the comunity see the match and vote to ban or not reported guy(s)
4th Dont make survs loose progress on ranking because it is so annoying to play 4 minutes on a match, 3 on a hook and loose progress, i think it is so unfair
I also know that there are some toxic survs and they should be penalized too but, remember that surv mechanichs dont stop the killer from playing I mean, TeaBags, clicky clicky and other stuff like that still allowing killers to play the game.
To be honest, I dont spect to be read but I needed to say something about the situation because at the end of a camper or tunneler match, the killers keep harrasing with coments like "ez" or "come cry know salty kids" when we are trying to have some fun and the just dont let us.
Hope this get to the hole comunity, greetings everyone.
Trying to make the game better, help us to erradicate toxicity developers, do something for your players :)
Comments
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Tunneling and camping are not toxic, they're strategies employed by Killers to win a game
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Are you sure they are tunneling and camping because from my own games, my frined's games, a lot of streamers and just vids on youtube in general it seems like players call tunneling and camping even when there wasn't any.
Often tunneling is the result of just really dumb plays by survivors that lead to them being hooked again that only a fool would ignore.
I'm starting to think that players are just heavily conditioned to blame everything on tunneling and camping so they are never in the wrong if the game doesn't go their way and they can shield their fragile egos.
It does happen but its hardly the disastrous epidemic people seem to be making it out to be.
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Permanent Borrowed Time wouldn't help and is gamebreaking.
Tunneling and Camping while not great to deal with isn't toxic and are not reportable as the game is progressing as normal.
Killers already get a penalty for camping hooks, but it in the grand scheme of things isn't particularly noticeable to survivors and people who only facecamp don't care about the penalty to begin with.
It sucks to not get to actually do much during the game, but it isn't something that is easily fixed. There is a limit to which you can penalize an activity born out of natural use of gameplay mechanics. To fully discourage it requires what would be a major change to how killers engage with the game. That is the actual solution, but on a smaller scale you can limit bp, but facecamping trolls don't care about bp or rank. Also if you're new to the game you're usually going to be going against people who are also new or generally just not pushing their MMR high enough to move out of showing up at your level. So usually they either don't know or don't care which isn't something you can police.
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This is the most "remove killers from the game" post I've ever read.
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Most "tunnelling" and "camping" is caused by survivors getting into a chase with the killer, then leading them right back to the hook. Often trying to unhook right in front of the killer's face without even having the decency to use BT. Actual tunneling and camping does indeed happen (and less rarely, now that killer playstyles keep getting gutted) but the vast majority of times people complain about it, they're causing it themselves quite literally.
Run Kindred so you can watch it happen in real time. Then simply be the change you want to see.
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"I mean, TeaBags, clicky clicky and other stuff like that still allowing killers to play the game."
Toxic is toxic. Trying to win isn't toxic, these things are."
"we are trying to have some fun and the just dont let us."
this happens on both sides. although in my experience and from what I've seen mostly from survivors. If you play nice you're going to lose more and get gloated over and shamed. If you sweat then they complain about you playing sweaty even if they were doing the same. The community is the problem, and realistically that's not changing.
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As this is a classic new player post, I'll offer to teach you instead of correcting you.
Would that interest you?
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Ha, Pulsar has stopped playing and got on his coaching career.
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Damn I really hope you are a new player not just a troll.
Survivors have way more power and control over the match that it may seem.
But I agree at the start, survivors have it hard but it will get much better every time you learn something and get better yourself as well.
Even hard tunneling and camping can be beat by teamplay. Unless its facecamping cannibal of course
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To all the "killer players" because I suppose you just play killers, blaming survs for camping and tunneling, what the ######### happens on your head to think that a surv (as me, gold 3 and with 3 years in game playing on console and recently playing again on pc) wants to gen tunneled and camped? I mean, i have seen so many comms saying that my opinion is just because other survs farm me, or i go to the killer to chase me. We dont do that, stop blaming us for what you do.
For the other guys that say tunneling and camping is a strategy to win. It is obvious that it is and Im not blaming killers to do that, even when I think it is toxicity when the literally hit your hang body and say yes with the head while chasing and hookin. What I wanted to tell the hole comunitty is that there is a problem on how the game goes because it is like I join a game to play 2 minutes and then its all a hooke simulator, it is not funny and it breacks my game experience. Also difinition of toxicity is to intentionally breack other players game experience and obviously camping and tuneling does.
I also know that clicky clicky and teabaging is toxicity and should be banned (as I said) but still repeating, if you facecamp me, i cant play, if I teabag you, you can still play, and I think is not unfair yo say that both thing are the same.
In addition to all of this, I read a guy that sayd "i think you are a new player, but when you get better you will be less tunneled and camped" im not a new player, im not the best but im not that bad, i have some skills and can stay on a long chase but, when the tunnel and camp comes, am I supposed to play just for one loop and them be hooked till death? I keep saying that thats not fair.
I also want to talk about genrushers, it should be a penalty on that because with a good team we can repair all gens in 5 seconds and, seeing matchmaking is a #########, new killers cant play a #########, I think those are the most important changes the game need, not adding new killers every 2 weeks and stuff like that.
It's a whole comunity problem as someone said but if we keep blaming each others (killers usually are the victims for everything, and thats sus) we wont get to a solution
This is not the most "delette killers" post you have ever read, this is the reality survs live when they get camped and tunneled, we cant play.
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I hate to downplay a survivors bad experience, but the only thing you seriously need to do to remedy this is join a swf. Coordination with your teammates solves all of your problems here.
You can be protected from tunneling, your team will always win if youre hard camped.
And yes, I'm aware its unfair for solo que but that's why the devs are working on buffing coordination with teammates for solo survivors.
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this is the reality survs live when they get camped and tunneled, we cant play.
Being on the ground or on the hook IS playing the game. 'Playing the game' is not only chases and generators. This flawed logic needs to go, because it seems to be the basis of every 'punish camping' bullshit idea that comes down the pipe.
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If you remove all campers and tunnelers and all clicky and t-bagging survs i would guess about 40% or all players would be gone...
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.... that is just wow. So, anything does correct. Ok, well tea-bagging/ flashlight clicking are strategy's to keep the killers attention, so nothing wrong with that. Leaving teammates to die, jumping in and out of lockers. All of these can be considered strategies, and I would say they are all toxic. If robbing a person of the ability to properly play a game is not toxic... then there is not much need to fix anything.
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The difference between what you listed here is that attempting to distract the killer can often result in nothing or even agitating a killer and causing them to tunneling or camp, but with tunneling and camping they have a 100% chance of being effective when employed at the correct times.
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Clicking/t-bagging can be used to draw a Killer's attention, so yeah, they're strats aswell. Leaving teammates to die is, depending on the situation, a good/the best choice. Jumping in an out of Lockers isn't really useful under any circumstance, other than trying really hard to get a Killer's attention away, which usually doesn't work.
Camping isn't done to deny the ability for a Survivor to play the game, it's strategically protecting a Hook, usually done when there are important objectives around such as Generators and Hex Totems. There's nothing toxic about playing strategically, whether that be on the Killer or Survivor side
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Its not strategic, its just toxic. You are robbing a player of an ability to play the game. Now I recognise the difference between camping at 1 gen left and camping at 5 gens. So lets not talk about the end game, which is a problem in itself, but rather camping a base game strategy. What you are doing as killer it just waiting and hoping, that players do not do the objective. this is not not a skill and I struggle to see how someone can find it rewarding. As a killer if you want a player out of a match you can do it, easily if a killer can't even camp then they need to find a different game. There is no way to improve at camping as you are just waiting. Just as a survivor there is no way improve at getting camped. Neither side can implement any skill, which is why it is not a strategy or if you do consider it one, it is very toxic as you are not allowing for an actual match. This is why I hate passive gen slow down perks (corupt, deadlock) these perks require zero input from the player and while they not be the strongest killer perks in the game, they are two of the most brainless, and slowing down gens should be hard. If you goal as a killer is not to encourage fun for both sides (same goes for survivors) then what you are doing is toxic.
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"Being on the ground or on the hook Is playing the game"
It seems that you didn't think when you say that. Im going with an example, imagine yourself playing a football amtch, when you are on the pitch, you dont always have the ball and you still playing, thats correct but, when you are on the bench... is it playing the game? Of course it is, you still on the football match till it ends but are you having fun? Nope, because you cant play football, you are just looking on the bench how others play, and obviously thats not fun.
So it is the same to be hooked and slugged, you arent playing the game because is not a hook simulator, but you still in the match so... think about it
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Oh, I did think. being hooked and slugged is like being tackled in football; it's part of the game. In fact, these are steps towards the Killer, your opponent, winning.
What you are doing, to use a football example (I'm going with American football, just because I know it more than European football), is whining that the opposing team keeps kicking field goals to get around your strong running/passing defense, and that you don't find that fun, because you're losing to a tactic you don't like.
The bottom line is that being Downed, and being Hooked are, literally, ways the Killer tries to win and/or applies pressure. Whining that it's 'not playing the game' shows that YOU did not think before replying, not me. Because being Downed or Hooked is, literally, aspects of the game. Just aspects YOU don't like because they mean you are losing.
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Im not gonna answer back because it is everything bad on this post like literally. To be tackled in soccer is consider as a fault, and it should be on dbd, is not because im loosing, it is because i have a broken leg and I CANT PLAY ANYMORE, dont you realise that is son sad to join a match and be hooked 4 of the 5 minutes you are in? It is not because im loosing, it is because i wanted to play but someone decided to dont let me. Its just that, strategies on games shouldnt be play yourself alone and, thinking it once more, when a killer tunnels and camps, survs usually go die, and i think thats not funny for the survs and for the killer.
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I mean it's plain stupid.
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Man, as many already told you i give you some (i hope productive) advices:
- Sometimes survs see tunneling or camping when it is not. For example, if the killer stay near your hook MAYBE is because you got hooked in the middle of 2 very progressed gens and he kicked them? Or maybe you got hooked near an exit gate in the final part of the match?
- Tunneling is the same, if you got unhooked 10 seconds ago and you go straight to the gen you was repairing and you meet the killer that it's defending it.... welll.. you can't call this tunneling.
- Pay attention to these details, it is important in order to avoid these situations.
- Do not think that killers never play surv and viceversa, we all payed for this game and 90% of playerbase enjoy both sides. I am 90% killer main but when i am with friends i play surv.
- Try to play killer if you never have done, this is the best way to understand when a killer camp, when a killer do not camp, the difference between face camping and proxy camping and why sometimes camping is legit and some other times not.
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Yeah, maybe they can add a mode with a bot for killer to please those demands.
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If survivors are difficult to catch and generators get finished quickly, the killer is disincentivized from trying to chase anyone else.
"Why should I go looking for somebody else who is going to take another 2 gens worth of time just to down, why I could stay here and get a kill?"
If you want to remove the draw of tunneling and camping, survivors need to last far, FAR less time in chase.
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And C: Those players so good, every salty player blocks them to have 'more fair games'.
And D: Those players who played well and Survivors decided 'He was toxic due to <perk/Killer/tactic> because it always everyone else's fault they lose.'
It was tried, and it, literally, happened. So no, we don't need a block function.
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Blocking was part of the early game. Ask @MandyTalk Skilled streamers who were NOT toxic had 20+ minute wait times because everyone blocked them. So, you're wrong.
Don't try to tell me stuff that happened did not happen.
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There literally WAS. Here. Right from here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2755347#Comment_2755347
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No it would not.
People would still block people who beat them. That's human nature. You can't tell me THIS salt mine of a player base would not ban everyone for anything. They already use any excuse they can to treat people like shite.
Do you REALLY think they would not do the same damn thing as before? 'This person beat me; blocked!' now multiplay that by 2-3 Survivors per group, per match.
Good players would see their queue times skyrocket. Because that's what happened.
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Running BNP it's a strategy in fact!
You know you have something that can boost your speed of repairing and you manage that resource.
It is not funny for the killer see 3 gens popping after one chase the same is for you to see the killer never leaving your hook.
Everyone criticize those things because they are not fun, not because they are not strategies. They are necessary in the current game situation, you cannot simply remove them, you must understand the reason behind the abuse.
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I read your first sentence and it told me you have nothing to say.
You're both wrong. Attacking me personally does not make you right. Sorry that makes you two so angry. Anyone can see the problems in such a system.
Post edited by EQWashu on2 -
Listen reaper, even thou maybe Angy sometimes is too defensive about some topics, writing that everyone that do not agree with you do not know what he is talking about or has a bias isn't the right way to push your idea in this community.
We all payed this game, we all have access to both survivor and killer gameplay.
Maybe some people know more than others but it's not your role to decide who is entitled about the topic to be free to talk.
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This again? No one is entitled to expect the other side plays intentionally worse and ignores using strategies as intended. Survivors bring 4 stacked second chances/strong items and play efficiently spread out/bodyblocking/etc? Get over it. They are playing this game as intended. Killer brings 4 slowdowns and tunnels/camps/slugs/etc as necessary to gain and snowball pressure? Get over it. They are playing this game as intended. If these things were not intended, the game would not be literally designed to be balanced around these things. Yes, there are balance issues here and there (such as disparity in experience for solo survivors and SWF, or base regression being garbage). That does not negate that they are still intended as a strategy and part of this game.
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Oh please; tell me how I got outplayed by me showing actual facts against such a system being in DBD? Because you saying 'You got outplayed' does not make it true.
And 'my way of thinking'? What way is that? Using the fact that a block system ruined the game for good players as proof a block system would ruin the game for good players?
Please; tell me where I've used any fallacy or incorrect statement? Can you? Or are you just flailing angrily?
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BNP are fine.
Camping/tunneling is too much.
BUT there is a clear reason behind it.
You first must understand the reason, then solve the issue that creates that reason THEN you can punish the behaviour.
The reason is: OFTEN CAMPING IS TIME EFFECTIVE! The alternative is chasing that often it is not!
Time effective in comparison with the gen repararion average time.
Too often, if you play MID RANK, not even top, and you carry no slowdowns, survs can end 3 gen in your first chase and the 4th in the second.
Then, or you have an easy 3 gen to protect or you camp forcing them to come for the save!
You can carry slowdowns, sure! Then there is the other complain that all the killers run the same perks....
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The entitlement of refuting gameplay strategies that the devs literally acknowledge and balance this game around is amusing. But yes of course, it is simply for the unskilled, which is why... they are required to play the game at all functionally against very good opponents. Yes. The logic checks out.
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Like when you say that Angy is: "clearly a camper/tunneler and that's why he doesn't want to see change."
Literally is: his opinion doesn't count because he has a strong bias.
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Did you even read his posts?
He literally brought up how an external program was used early on to actually block people and how big of an issue it became for good players.
He even shown evidence of it! From a forum moderator no less!
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You DID see where I showed A DEVELOPER COMMENTING THAT THERE WAS A WAY TO BLOCK PEOPLE, right?
That means that, regardless of what you post; you COULD block people and it WAS abused. Try again. Your little steam screenshots mean nothing when A DEVELOPER SAID THERE WAS A WAY.
Or are you saying 'random person on steam' is a more valid source than A LITERAL DEVELOPER. And yes; those bold parts are supposed to be shouted so you freaking see them this time.
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Man, if you address another people that has a different opinion saying that his opinion is because of X there are only 2 possibilities:
1) he do not know anything outside his little world, therefore his opinion is not worthy
2) he is defending his interests, therefore his opinion is not worthy
Otherwise there is no reason to say "he do not want to change because...."
Pick your poison, either you did for reason A or reason B still cheap because you are attacking the person and not the opinion.
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A reminder to keep the discussion civil and respectful, please. You can discuss things here on topic with the thread, without attacks on others. Thank you.
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I think OP itself is almost an attack for any killer players and should be removed.
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I never said those weren't strats either
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Once again, I have seen more brainless stuff like "they are playing the game, they are using strats" like on this comms
And I'm not gonna answer you back, if you say 2+2=5 it is your problem, not mine xd, it is a strategy to go to the killers house, break his screen and win aswell.
On the other side, there keep baing comments like "sometimes you call camping and tunneling things they are not". As an experienced player, as I said before, i obviously understand when I get camped with all gens repaired, I dont like it but I can understand, also other more situations that I wont complain because ot is logical to try to get at least one kill, or chek gens or something like that, I still dont liking it but Im not gonna complain. Also you should understand that I DONT NEED ADVICE OR TIPS TO IMPROVE, you wont tell me how the game works because it is probably that I have played this game more than most of the people saying "you are a new player" I AM NOT, I DONT NEED TO LEARN HOW TO LOOP, and that keeps being an stupid argument because knowing how to loop just make your chases longer, not prevents camping or tunneling. Also, if I were a new player, lots and lots of experienced and skilled survs gets tunneled and camped, would you say the same to them?
I also would like to say, for those who where arguing about the "block button" It wont work because of that trolls/salty that would vote to block everyone and those guys could be:
Toxic, in that situation the button works well, players wont be matched up with them
Skiller and good players that beated the guy who blocked them: in this situation the button dont work because those skilled guys wont be playing against anyone and it is not their fault to be so good.
if they create a system where you can see the matches of the reported guys to see why were they reported and vote to validate the report or not, it could work, but still people would report skilled guys and toxic guys aswell
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Skill issue.
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it is a strategy to go to the killers house, break his screen and win aswell.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but did you just try to equate slugging, camping, and tunneling; all tactics with accepted applications. To breaking & entering, and destruction of property? 🤦♂️
if they create a system where you can see the matches of the reported guys to see why were they reported and vote to validate the report or not
Oh gods no. This salt mine of a player base should have 0 say on if a hacking report is valid or not.
I'll give you a story: Back before TF2 went free2play (and thus free2hack); I was in a pretty popular clan. One of our admins was a god-level player with Sniper. When I first joined the servers, I was CONVINCED he was hacking. His reflexes were at least double any other player's I had seen.
After joining the clan, I learned that they had a 0-tolerance on cheating/racism/bigotry. I also learned that they would take recordings of cheaters in-engine (the HL2 engine or whatever TF2 used could take in-engine recordings) and would then run it and do such things as toggle wireframe to see if a player was aiming at people he could not see.
This clan held twice-monthly CLASSES on how to spot cheaters & the various ways they would try to cover their cheating.
Once I became an admin (a long vetting process in itself), I quickly learned that at least 10 people a day to our servers would report the Sniper for hacking. And every single one was 100% convinced they were right. Even when we pointed out our 0-tolerance stance on cheating, and him being an admin; players were flat-out convinced we were covering for him. Because they believed they knew better than everyone else.
Moral of the story: Your average salty player will see cheaters in anyone better than them. They are not trained to put aside their personal bias and feelings to think 'Is this person REALLY hacking?' They should, in no way, be in charge of deciding who's cheating or not.
Plus; All it takes is a cheater with a bunch of cheating buddies to find their own report and say 'He is not cheating' to game the system. And there are cheating COMMUNITIES out there; forums, webpages; the works.
I learned THAT when cheaters would flood the clan forums and servers (We did most the Valve multiplayer games popular at the time: CS 1.6, TF2, Day Of Defeat: Source, some Prophunt servers, etc.) in an attempt to force us to shut down, as revenge for banning someone from their cheaty little communities, repeatedly. Plus the repeated DDOS attempts.
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