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Homophobic slurs aren’t bannable?!!
Comments
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I’m not talking about the word gay.. I’m regerring to other 3Blueberry said:@Orion said:
@Blueberry said:
@tt_ivi_99 said:
Saying someone is gay is not bad, its the same as saying a black person is black or a lesbian is lesbian.
O course the people who say that dont mean It in that way but devs cant do anyting if the context is not clearly verbal abuse (which would be calling you something like [bad word] gay, instead of just gay).
There has to be explicit verbal abuse in order to ban someone.This ^ basically.
Like being offended for calling the grass green. If someone calling you gay is offensive to you, then you are believing there is a negative connotation in being gay. You don't like gay people? That's pretty homophobic in itself. Pointing out something isn't offensive, stop getting offended so easily. Snowflakes everywhere.
It's amazing how you're already dismissing this out of hand without even knowing the context. You made up a story and pretended that's the reality.
I'm basing off the context that has been provided. If he offers anything contrary then I will gladly change my stance. However, he has not. So I go off what he has said. There's absolutely nothing wrong with my statement still.
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@Blueberry said:
@Orion said:
@Blueberry said:
@tt_ivi_99 said:
Saying someone is gay is not bad, its the same as saying a black person is black or a lesbian is lesbian.
O course the people who say that dont mean It in that way but devs cant do anyting if the context is not clearly verbal abuse (which would be calling you something like [bad word] gay, instead of just gay).
There has to be explicit verbal abuse in order to ban someone.This ^ basically.
Like being offended for calling the grass green. If someone calling you gay is offensive to you, then you are believing there is a negative connotation in being gay. You don't like gay people? That's pretty homophobic in itself. Pointing out something isn't offensive, stop getting offended so easily. Snowflakes everywhere.
It's amazing how you're already dismissing this out of hand without even knowing the context. You made up a story and pretended that's the reality.
I'm basing off the context that has been provided. If he offers anything contrary then I will gladly change my stance. However, he has not. So I go off what he has said. There's absolutely nothing wrong with my statement still.
So you think saying someone is gay is a slur?
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Comes for arguements about slurs, stays for arguements about politics
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@Exerlin said:
@Blueberry said:
@Orion said:
@Blueberry said:
@tt_ivi_99 said:
Saying someone is gay is not bad, its the same as saying a black person is black or a lesbian is lesbian.
O course the people who say that dont mean It in that way but devs cant do anyting if the context is not clearly verbal abuse (which would be calling you something like [bad word] gay, instead of just gay).
There has to be explicit verbal abuse in order to ban someone.This ^ basically.
Like being offended for calling the grass green. If someone calling you gay is offensive to you, then you are believing there is a negative connotation in being gay. You don't like gay people? That's pretty homophobic in itself. Pointing out something isn't offensive, stop getting offended so easily. Snowflakes everywhere.
It's amazing how you're already dismissing this out of hand without even knowing the context. You made up a story and pretended that's the reality.
I'm basing off the context that has been provided. If he offers anything contrary then I will gladly change my stance. However, he has not. So I go off what he has said. There's absolutely nothing wrong with my statement still.
OP is talking about homophobic slurs, not being called gay. It's like if someone's complaining about something calling them the N word, and you're like "So you don't like being called black? Lol triggered snowflake". It's like you're being ignorant on purpose.
They are, they are using their 12 year old troll "logic" to defend the behavior purely because they are too stupid to see the problem.
Probably use this kinda of language themselves but they dont want to be "bad" people or want you to tell them what to do, even though the reason they do it is specifically to antagonize.Ironic I know, but these kind of people always show up sadly.
To end it, yeah its weird people dont get banned for this, how hard is it to just ban some words from showing up in the chat? come on Behavior, step your game up.
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@Orion said:
Looking at it from an outside perspective, the Democrats are nowhere near as bad as the Republicans, and are often more proactive in "cleaning house", as it were. Whereas Republicans defend pedophiles, homophobes, racists, and neo Nazis, as long as they're in their party (which the latter three usually are), Democrats will force such people to resign.@Orion I can only assume you are an European. Without getting too political on a video game forum, all I can ask from you is to not be too narrow minded. Don't follow the narrative without hard reasoning. Question both sides of the story. US media in general is well known to be extremely biased towards Democrats so don't take them for facts. Both sides have bad and corrupt politicians but painting them black and white is just feeding to the narrative. Good day!
PS : I'm not a US citizen but someone who follow world politics closely.
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I'm generally on the view that whoever finds a bit of insults in online gaming too much to bear, should toughen up. Jesus, it's just words.
BUT. I'd say any kind of abusive language, vulgarities, regardless whether it's homophobic/racist or just general trash talk should result in a warning first, and a (temporary!) ban or other consequences (I'd love to see some of the most obnoxious players' favourite P3 character progress reset... just a suggestion
).And it's not to protect those who are insulted. Things that are so much worse are going to happen to you. If you can't handle some insults from random keyboard warriors, good luck in RL.
No. It is for the offensive one. Being an ######### is not ok, but if someone's not punished for it, they'll keep being #########. That's just how we are.
Still don't see a point in making a difference between "homophobic" and, umm, "regular" (?) trash talk.
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Exactly, no point spending valuable time, report and move on. If they can't handle insults on the internet (which they know is getting taken care off) have fun having a complete mental breakdown once they realize that for example, the job market is as stable ss Michael J. Fox on a pogostick.George_Soros said:I'm generally on the view that whoever finds a bit of insults in online gaming too much to bear, should toughen up. Jesus, it's just words.
BUT. I'd say any kind of abusive language, vulgarities, regardless whether it's homophobic/racist or just general trash talk should result in a warning first, and a (temporary!) ban or other consequences (I'd love to see some of the most obnoxious players' favourite P3 character progress reset... just a suggestion
).And it's not to protect those who are insulted. Things that are so much worse are going to happen to you. If you can't handle some insults from random keyboard warriors, good luck in RL.
No. It is for the offensive one. Being an [BAD WORD] is not ok, but if someone's not punished for it, they'll keep being #########. That's just how we are.
Still don't see a point in making a difference between "homophobic" and, umm, "regular" (?) trash talk.
And to your last point, i think some just wanna pretend that its more than it actually is to further their agenda, its already prohibited but everything bad that is a result of your emotonal reaction is up to you, its as simple as that.
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@Dinaqma said:
Blueberry said:@Orion said:
@Blueberry said:
@tt_ivi_99 said:
Saying someone is gay is not bad, its the same as saying a black person is black or a lesbian is lesbian.
O course the people who say that dont mean It in that way but devs cant do anyting if the context is not clearly verbal abuse (which would be calling you something like [bad word] gay, instead of just gay).
There has to be explicit verbal abuse in order to ban someone.
This ^ basically.
Like being offended for calling the grass green. If someone calling you gay is offensive to you, then you are believing there is a negative connotation in being gay. You don't like gay people? That's pretty homophobic in itself. Pointing out something isn't offensive, stop getting offended so easily. Snowflakes everywhere.
It's amazing how you're already dismissing this out of hand without even knowing the context. You made up a story and pretended that's the reality.
I'm basing off the context that has been provided. If he offers anything contrary then I will gladly change my stance. However, he has not. So I go off what he has said. There's absolutely nothing wrong with my statement still.
I’m not talking about the word gay.. I’m regerring to other 3
If you want to reference other words then list them, otherwise we have to just assume.
Even regardless to that they're words, I don't believe anyone should be banned over any words unless it is actually advocating for violence.
By Terms of Service however, they will be.
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@kimukipi said:
@Orion said:
Looking at it from an outside perspective, the Democrats are nowhere near as bad as the Republicans, and are often more proactive in "cleaning house", as it were. Whereas Republicans defend pedophiles, homophobes, racists, and neo Nazis, as long as they're in their party (which the latter three usually are), Democrats will force such people to resign.@Orion I can only assume you are an European. Without getting too political on a video game forum, all I can ask from you is to not be too narrow minded. Don't follow the narrative without hard reasoning. Question both sides of the story. US media in general is well known to be extremely biased towards Democrats so don't take them for facts. Both sides have bad and corrupt politicians but painting them black and white is just feeding to the narrative. Good day!
PS : I'm not a US citizen but someone who follow world politics closely.
I didn't say Democrats were saints; I just said that, to me, the Republicans seem far worse.
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Hello @Dinaqma
Let me reassure you, we do ban for communication abuse. We have a team of Associate Community Managers that are working to make this game a safer and nicer place.
If you consult the game rules you can find this clause covering Communication Abuse:
HARASSMENT: COMMUNICATION ABUSE
Insults, intimidation, hateful speech, repeated harassment
In-game report REQUIREDYour responsibility in the case of communication abuse is to report through the in-game report.
We have access to chat logs and when players are flagged, the cases are investigated.
The escalation process for that offence is 24h / 48h / 1 week / Permanent banNote that we do not give any public information on the outcome of the investigations.
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@RushingSnipeBob said:
@not_Queen said:
Hello @DinaqmaLet me reassure you, we do ban for communication abuse. We have a team of Associate Community Managers that are working to make this game a safer and nicer place.
If you consult the game rules you can find this clause covering Communication Abuse:
HARASSMENT: COMMUNICATION ABUSE
Insults, intimidation, hateful speech, repeated harassment
In-game report REQUIREDYour responsibility in the case of communication abuse is to report through the in-game report.
We have access to chat logs and when players are flagged, the cases are investigated.
The escalation process for that offence is 24h / 48h / 1 week / Permanent banNote that we do not give any public information on the outcome of the investigations.
Hey, Queen,
Wouldn't it be easier to write an alghorytm that bans people instantly? For example, someone is calling one person a "#########", alghorytm catches that and bans said person for 24h, then for 1 day, then 1 week and then permabans the user.It would make the mods life a lot easier.
the ban idea is a good idea, but to ban for a good reason, death threats, racist posts etc, but if people were banned for swearing....not sure there would be a forum lol but i like the concept
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@Mushwin said:
@RushingSnipeBob said:
@not_Queen said:
Hello @DinaqmaLet me reassure you, we do ban for communication abuse. We have a team of Associate Community Managers that are working to make this game a safer and nicer place.
If you consult the game rules you can find this clause covering Communication Abuse:
HARASSMENT: COMMUNICATION ABUSE
Insults, intimidation, hateful speech, repeated harassment
In-game report REQUIREDYour responsibility in the case of communication abuse is to report through the in-game report.
We have access to chat logs and when players are flagged, the cases are investigated.
The escalation process for that offence is 24h / 48h / 1 week / Permanent banNote that we do not give any public information on the outcome of the investigations.
Hey, Queen,
Wouldn't it be easier to write an alghorytm that bans people instantly? For example, someone is calling one person a "#########", alghorytm catches that and bans said person for 24h, then for 1 day, then 1 week and then permabans the user.It would make the mods life a lot easier.
the ban idea is a good idea, but to ban for a good reason, death threats, racist posts etc, but if people were banned for swearing....not sure there would be a forum lol but i like the concept
I think an automated system for this would be a bad idea. Context matters, and an automated system can't distinguish between friendly banter using homophobic or racists slurs and homophobes or racists being themselves.
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I dont have tolerance for people who say your gay and they mean your stupid. Just say your stupid. Black people dont like like the n word. Gays dont like the f word . like you can insult someone in so many way but choose to use sexual orientation as an insult? Pathetic...3
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@RushingSnipeBob said:
@not_Queen said:
Hello @DinaqmaLet me reassure you, we do ban for communication abuse. We have a team of Associate Community Managers that are working to make this game a safer and nicer place.
If you consult the game rules you can find this clause covering Communication Abuse:
HARASSMENT: COMMUNICATION ABUSE
Insults, intimidation, hateful speech, repeated harassment
In-game report REQUIREDYour responsibility in the case of communication abuse is to report through the in-game report.
We have access to chat logs and when players are flagged, the cases are investigated.
The escalation process for that offence is 24h / 48h / 1 week / Permanent banNote that we do not give any public information on the outcome of the investigations.
Hey, Queen,
Wouldn't it be easier to write an alghorytm that bans people instantly? For example, someone is calling one person a "#########", alghorytm catches that and bans said person for 24h, then for 1 day, then 1 week and then permabans the user.It would make the mods life a lot easier.
No, that's a horrible idea. You have to understand, throwing some serious insults at each other can be done in a friendly way. Maybe you've never called a friend a cocksucking sack of sht fagot, but many of us have. That's just part of the banter, which can be fun. Often, when I realize I'm playing against people I know from before, we jump into such exchanges and have a good laugh about it.
These are not things you should tell someone you don't know of course. You have to distinguish. Some people can't do that. If some stranger says something like these to you, sure, go ahead, report it. But no algorithm will ever be able to distinguish, or correctly understand the context.
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I’m a bit impressed at how many of you ask for the victim to suck it up, to toughen up instead of addressing the real problem. Why do we naturalize hate speech and behaviour? Why do I have to learn to live with hate? Why doesn’t the bully have to learn to live with respect towards others?5
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Why bothering? If people get offended by those little meanigless words they should get thicker skin. Some people's hearts are to fragile lolRushingSnipeBob said:@not_Queen said:
Hello @DinaqmaLet me reassure you, we do ban for communication abuse. We have a team of Associate Community Managers that are working to make this game a safer and nicer place.
If you consult the game rules you can find this clause covering Communication Abuse:
HARASSMENT: COMMUNICATION ABUSE
Insults, intimidation, hateful speech, repeated harassment
In-game report REQUIREDYour responsibility in the case of communication abuse is to report through the in-game report.
We have access to chat logs and when players are flagged, the cases are investigated.
The escalation process for that offence is 24h / 48h / 1 week / Permanent banNote that we do not give any public information on the outcome of the investigations.
Hey, Queen,
Wouldn't it be easier to write an alghorytm that bans people instantly? For example, someone is calling one person a "#########", alghorytm catches that and bans said person for 24h, then for 1 day, then 1 week and then permabans the user.It would make the mods life a lot easier.
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@sadmuffins13 said:
I dont have tolerance for people who say your gay and they mean your stupid. Just say your stupid. Black people dont like like the n word. Gays dont like the f word . like you can insult someone in so many way but choose to use sexual orientation as an insult? Pathetic...I love using "gay" not so much as a serious insult, but as something lame, stupid, questionable. You know: not something that's completely wrong, just... not quite right.
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@RushingSnipeBob said:
e any public information on the outcome of the investigations.Hey, Queen,
Wouldn't it be easier to write an alghorytm that bans people instantly? For example, someone is calling one person a "#########", alghorytm catches that and bans said person for 24h, then for 1 day, then 1 week and then permabans the user.It would make the mods life a lot easier.
League of Legends did this. Now their player base intentionally trolls each other by saying stuff that avoids the filter and trying to get somebody who was just playing normally and trying to enjoy the game to get angry enough to cuss at them. Context is more important than anything in these situations, and computers can't detect context yet.
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@Gorgonia said:
I’m a bit impressed at how many of you ask for the victim to suck it up, to toughen up instead of addressing the real problem. Why do we naturalize hate speech and behaviour? Why do I have to learn to live with hate? Why doesn’t the bully have to learn to live with respect towards others?Trust me, if we were nice to each other all the time, it would be horribly boring. Hatred is part of life. A fun part too. You can pretend it's not there but don't go and demand others to hide it only to make you feel better.
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Why do you assume it would make me feel better if you hid your horrendous personality?George_Soros said:@Gorgonia said:
I’m a bit impressed at how many of you ask for the victim to suck it up, to toughen up instead of addressing the real problem. Why do we naturalize hate speech and behaviour? Why do I have to learn to live with hate? Why doesn’t the bully have to learn to live with respect towards others?Trust me, if we were nice to each other all the time, it would be horribly boring. Hatred is part of life. A fun part too. You can pretend it's not there but don't go and demand others to hide it only to make you feel better.
And being nice is boring? Really? Hatred is a fun part of life?
Why am I even replying to the likes of you, I wonder2 -
Feel free to ask that, its fruitless.Gorgonia said:I’m a bit impressed at how many of you ask for the victim to suck it up, to toughen up instead of addressing the real problem. Why do we naturalize hate speech and behaviour? Why do I have to learn to live with hate? Why doesn’t the bully have to learn to live with respect towards others?
Everything grows in its ideal enviroment, either the kids have been raised badly by #########, or holier-than-thou parents, whose kids are naturally programmed to rebel as teens.
We cannot control all of humanity, its impossible, we can only control our own reactions and MAYBE parents that are close enough.
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Of course I cannot control what someone else says, but that doesn’t mean I should accept it nor that it shouldn’t be punished if it goes against the rules and the code of conduct.ChesterTheMolester said:
Feel free to ask that, its fruitless.Gorgonia said:I’m a bit impressed at how many of you ask for the victim to suck it up, to toughen up instead of addressing the real problem. Why do we naturalize hate speech and behaviour? Why do I have to learn to live with hate? Why doesn’t the bully have to learn to live with respect towards others?
Everything grows in its ideal enviroment, either the kids have been raised badly by #########, or holier-than-thou parents, whose kids are naturally programmed to rebel as teens.
We cannot control all of humanity, its impossible, we can only control our own reactions and MAYBE parents that are close enough.1 -
@Gorgonia said:
George_Soros said:@Gorgonia said:
I’m a bit impressed at how many of you ask for the victim to suck it up, to toughen up instead of addressing the real problem. Why do we naturalize hate speech and behaviour? Why do I have to learn to live with hate? Why doesn’t the bully have to learn to live with respect towards others?
Trust me, if we were nice to each other all the time, it would be horribly boring. Hatred is part of life. A fun part too. You can pretend it's not there but don't go and demand others to hide it only to make you feel better.
Why do you assume it would make me feel better if you hid your horrendous personality?
And being nice is boring? Really? Hatred is a fun part of life?
Why am I even replying to the likes of you, I wonderHonesty is better than pretending. The "fun part" was obviously meant for trolling (hoped you'd get it).
I'd like to point out how easily some people drop "hate speech". Insulting others is not hate speech. The way I see it, the only acceptable definition of hate speech is direct call for violence or crime. Yeah, punish that. However, someone insulting you is very often just to test your boundaries. Nothing to do with hatred, just checking if you can take it. Because if you can, you've earned some respect.
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You:
HOMOPHOBIC SLURS AREN’T BANNABLE?!!
Me:
Name an example?
You:
*Names an example *
You again:
*Gets banned *
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@RushingSnipeBob said:
@not_Queen said:
Hello @DinaqmaLet me reassure you, we do ban for communication abuse. We have a team of Associate Community Managers that are working to make this game a safer and nicer place.
If you consult the game rules you can find this clause covering Communication Abuse:
HARASSMENT: COMMUNICATION ABUSE
Insults, intimidation, hateful speech, repeated harassment
In-game report REQUIREDYour responsibility in the case of communication abuse is to report through the in-game report.
We have access to chat logs and when players are flagged, the cases are investigated.
The escalation process for that offence is 24h / 48h / 1 week / Permanent banNote that we do not give any public information on the outcome of the investigations.
Hey, Queen,
Wouldn't it be easier to write an alghorytm that bans people instantly? For example, someone is calling one person a "#########", alghorytm catches that and bans said person for 24h, then for 1 day, then 1 week and then permabans the user.It would make the mods life a lot easier.
On paper it sounds good but I still remember that in Rainbow Six Siege if you misstyped "frag" you could instantly get banned. They need to look at context when banning users. If it is used on purpose in an insulting manner of course they should get banned.
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I know, and i haven't said that it should happen. They will be dealt with when reported, so do it so they learn their lesson, however DBD gets a constant amount of new players and banned ones making new accounts, keeping it under control is a sisyphean task.Gorgonia said:
Of course I cannot control what someone else says, but that doesn’t mean I should accept it nor that it shouldn’t be punished if it goes against the rules and the code of conduct.ChesterTheMolester said:
Feel free to ask that, its fruitless.Gorgonia said:I’m a bit impressed at how many of you ask for the victim to suck it up, to toughen up instead of addressing the real problem. Why do we naturalize hate speech and behaviour? Why do I have to learn to live with hate? Why doesn’t the bully have to learn to live with respect towards others?
Everything grows in its ideal enviroment, either the kids have been raised badly by #########, or holier-than-thou parents, whose kids are naturally programmed to rebel as teens.
We cannot control all of humanity, its impossible, we can only control our own reactions and MAYBE parents that are close enough.
So when i say its better for them to report and move on, instead of spending their valuable time and effort on them, its not normalizing it, its just an honest advice how to deal with that. And you might have to toughen up, sure it sucks but so does a predator that gets outclassed by its prey and starves.0 -
Have you ever read about how many people kill themselves based on insults and “fun comments that weren’t meant to be hateful”? You do assume everyone else is going to accept your comments as fun because you think they are fun. Let me break it to you, people shouldn’t try and guess what YOU mean by your comments, you should express so that others do understand them. I don’t care if you were trolling or not, I don’t know you, I barely care to know you and I have no intention of “getting” anything, hence, when you talk to someone you don’t know, you don’t assume/hope they will understand your joke or lack of.George_Soros said:@Gorgonia said:
George_Soros said:@Gorgonia said:
I’m a bit impressed at how many of you ask for the victim to suck it up, to toughen up instead of addressing the real problem. Why do we naturalize hate speech and behaviour? Why do I have to learn to live with hate? Why doesn’t the bully have to learn to live with respect towards others?
Trust me, if we were nice to each other all the time, it would be horribly boring. Hatred is part of life. A fun part too. You can pretend it's not there but don't go and demand others to hide it only to make you feel better.
Why do you assume it would make me feel better if you hid your horrendous personality?
And being nice is boring? Really? Hatred is a fun part of life?
Why am I even replying to the likes of you, I wonderHonesty is better than pretending. The "fun part" was obviously meant for trolling (hoped you'd get it).
I'd like to point out how easily some people drop "hate speech". Insulting others is not hate speech. The way I see it, the only acceptable definition of hate speech is direct call for violence or crime. Yeah, punish that. However, someone insulting you is very often just to test your boundaries. Nothing to do with hatred, just checking if you can take it. Because if you can, you've earned some respect.
Whatever makes someone feel bad is hate speech. And if you insult me only to “test my boundaries” and see if I’m worthy of your respect... oh man, save it.0 -
@Gorgonia said:
Whatever makes someone feel bad is hate speech.
No, its not. It is not even close to hate speech. What the OP spoke about, yes, that is hate speech. Me hurting your feelings is not hate speech.
Hate Speech definition: abusive or threatening speech or writing that expresses prejudice against a particular group, especially on the basis of race, religion, or sexual orientation.
Please show where that definition states me making you feel bad is hate speech. I was completely with you on nearly all points, but that comment loses you all credibility.
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I said whatever makes someone feel bad in the terms of the topics discussed above. Maybe “making someone feel bad” wasn’t the correct expression. The person before me only mentioned it is hate speech if it calls for violence or crime, which I think is incorrect. As long as you insult someone and provoke any kind of psychological or social effect on the topics your definition clearly states, plus some others, it is hate speech, given the circumstances we are involved in, an online game where people you meet probably live in a completely different hemisphere and you will never get to know beyond this platform.lasombra1979 said:@Gorgonia said:
Whatever makes someone feel bad is hate speech.
No, its not. It is not even close to hate speech. What the OP spoke about, yes, that is hate speech. Me hurting your feelings is not hate speech.
Hate Speech definition: abusive or threatening speech or writing that expresses prejudice against a particular group, especially on the basis of race, religion, or sexual orientation.
Please show where that definition states me making you feel bad is hate speech. I was completely with you on nearly all points, but that comment loses you all credibility.
TLDR, hurting someone’s feelings isn’t hate speech but people who abuse these topics in the game don’t just tell you you are gay, they tell you you and your whole family should die because you were born an abomination and that they hope you are raped and brutalized because you were not meant to be.
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@Gorgonia said:
Whatever makes someone feel bad is hate speech.
That is wrong on so many levels. If somebody from a distant country calls me a Slovakian by mistake (I'm from Hungary), and it makes me feel bad, is that hate speech? If somebody voices his/her opinion that I'm hideously ugly, and it makes me feel bad, is that hate speech? If someone has a political view that's very different from mine, so much that it makes me feel bad, is that hate speech?
No. By forming an opinion, any opinion, you risk hurting someone's feelings. And you should. If you make it clear your intent is not malicious, that should not put any relatively stable person off. Again: honesty is much better than sparing the feeling of others at any cost.That said, I can see the topic is important to you. Let me just say, I'd never actually insult you, even in a way I find funny, exactly because I don't know you. Decent people can learn to distinguish when it's proper and when it's not proper to get involved in a nasty banter. Clearly it's not when talking to people we don't know. And those who don't realize that should be punished to a reasonable measure. But. You also have to realize, there are some communities, subcultures, groups, etc where a certain level of nastiness is an integral part of regular communication. Some of those subcultures are more extreme (if you're a marine, you can't exactly report your drill sergeant to his superiors because he's mean to you...), some others less so, but still accept a bit of trash talk. Gaming is such a world. If you can't take at least some of the trash talk there, it's just not for you.
I'm not saying it makes you less worthy as a person or anything. But you do benefit if you manage to toughen up. I understand it's more difficult to girls/women. But who do you think is happier, someone who emotionally collapses every time when facing a bit of (verbal!) nastiness, or someone who shrugs, returns it in kind and goes about her business like nothing happened?
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Read my answer above. No one is talking about “making someone feel bad” in those terms. Like do people actually feel “bad” because their neighbor votes for the other political party? HahGeorge_Soros said:@Gorgonia said:
Whatever makes someone feel bad is hate speech.
That is wrong on so many levels. If somebody from a distant country calls me a Slovakian by mistake (I'm from Hungary), and it makes me feel bad, is that hate speech? If somebody voices his/her opinion that I'm hideously ugly, and it makes me feel bad, is that hate speech? If someone has a political view that's very different from mine, so much that it makes me feel bad, is that hate speech?
No. By forming an opinion, any opinion, you risk hurting someone's feelings. And you should. If you make it clear your intent is not malicious, that should not put any relatively stable person off. Again: honesty is much better than sparing the feeling of others at any cost.That said, I can see the topic is important to you. Let me just say, I'd never actually insult you, even in a way I find funny, exactly because I don't know you. Decent people can learn to distinguish when it's proper and when it's not proper to get involved in a nasty banter. Clearly it's not when talking to people we don't know. And those who don't realize that should be punished to a reasonable measure. But. You also have to realize, there are some communities, subcultures, groups, etc where a certain level of nastiness is an integral part of regular communication. Some of those subcultures are more extreme (if you're a marine, you can't exactly report your drill sergeant to his superiors because he's mean to you...), some others less so, but still accept a bit of trash talk. Gaming is such a world. If you can't take at least some of the trash talk there, it's just not for you.
I'm not saying it makes you less worthy as a person or anything. But you do benefit if you manage to toughen up. I understand it's more difficult to girls/women. But who do you think is happier, someone who emotionally collapses every time when facing a bit of (verbal!) nastiness, or someone who shrugs, returns it in kind and goes about her business like nothing happened?
If you are harrassing someone to the point they feel bad, it is hate speech. That’s what I’m saying. Every case in this and other games where people complain about this is not a “oh dude, you’re black”, you and I both know people go way overboard to the point of making it hate speech.2 -
@Gorgonia said:
lasombra1979 said:@Gorgonia said:
Whatever makes someone feel bad is hate speech.
No, its not. It is not even close to hate speech. What the OP spoke about, yes, that is hate speech. Me hurting your feelings is not hate speech.
Hate Speech definition: abusive or threatening speech or writing that expresses prejudice against a particular group, especially on the basis of race, religion, or sexual orientation.
Please show where that definition states me making you feel bad is hate speech. I was completely with you on nearly all points, but that comment loses you all credibility.
I said whatever makes someone feel bad in the terms of the topics discussed above. Maybe “making someone feel bad” wasn’t the correct expression. The person before me only mentioned it is hate speech if it calls for violence or crime, which I think is incorrect. As long as you insult someone and provoke any kind of psychological or social effect on the topics your definition clearly states, plus some others, it is hate speech, given the circumstances we are involved in, an online game where people you meet probably live in a completely different hemisphere and you will never get to know beyond this platform.
TLDR, hurting someone’s feelings isn’t hate speech but people who abuse these topics in the game don’t just tell you you are gay, they tell you you and your whole family should die because you were born an abomination and that they hope you are raped and brutalized because you were not meant to be.
Hate speech is very specific. What you are talking about is someone being a major prick/douche/jerk/#########/bully (please feel free to add more terms to the list). It is all reportable and should be stopped, I do not disagree. I disagree when you casually toss around a term like hate speech and try to apply it to everything. Being a victim of hate speech, violence and social phobias due to who and what I am, I know what it is. Someone calling you an abomination in an online game is not hate speech, its just being a prick. You lessen the impact of the phrase when you so casually use it however you want.
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I’m not trying to apply the term to everything. Cyber-bullying is now considered hate speech in lots of places if it is related to certain topics (sexual orientation, women, etc etc) and while not every ingame troll is a bully, the idea is to prevent this from getting to that point.lasombra1979 said:@Gorgonia said:
lasombra1979 said:@Gorgonia said:
Whatever makes someone feel bad is hate speech.
No, its not. It is not even close to hate speech. What the OP spoke about, yes, that is hate speech. Me hurting your feelings is not hate speech.
Hate Speech definition: abusive or threatening speech or writing that expresses prejudice against a particular group, especially on the basis of race, religion, or sexual orientation.
Please show where that definition states me making you feel bad is hate speech. I was completely with you on nearly all points, but that comment loses you all credibility.
I said whatever makes someone feel bad in the terms of the topics discussed above. Maybe “making someone feel bad” wasn’t the correct expression. The person before me only mentioned it is hate speech if it calls for violence or crime, which I think is incorrect. As long as you insult someone and provoke any kind of psychological or social effect on the topics your definition clearly states, plus some others, it is hate speech, given the circumstances we are involved in, an online game where people you meet probably live in a completely different hemisphere and you will never get to know beyond this platform.
TLDR, hurting someone’s feelings isn’t hate speech but people who abuse these topics in the game don’t just tell you you are gay, they tell you you and your whole family should die because you were born an abomination and that they hope you are raped and brutalized because you were not meant to be.
Hate speech is very specific. What you are talking about is someone being a major prick/douche/jerk/[BAD WORD]/bully (please feel free to add more terms to the list). It is all reportable and should be stopped, I do not disagree. I disagree when you casually toss around a term like hate speech and try to apply it to everything. Being a victim of hate speech, violence and social phobias due to who and what I am, I know what it is. Someone calling you an abomination in an online game is not hate speech, its just being a prick. You lessen the impact of the phrase when you so casually use it however you want.
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I think it's hard to track incidences of communication abuse if it's not being looked at by someone with the power to ban.
Dbd has a small team, they are having a good go, but they likely lack the manpower and equipment to find and deal with isolated incidents of these slurs.0 -
While i have a lot of thoughts about this topic, i don't think a video game forum is the place to discuss "hate speech" and the like. Please guys.
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@Gorgonia said:
lasombra1979 said:@Gorgonia said:
lasombra1979 said:
@Gorgonia said: Whatever makes someone feel bad is hate speech. No, its not. It is not even close to hate speech. What the OP spoke about, yes, that is hate speech. Me hurting your feelings is not hate speech. Hate Speech definition: abusive or threatening speech or writing that expresses prejudice against a particular group, especially on the basis of race, religion, or sexual orientation. Please show where that definition states me making you feel bad is hate speech. I was completely with you on nearly all points, but that comment loses you all credibility. I said whatever makes someone feel bad in the terms of the topics discussed above. Maybe “making someone feel bad” wasn’t the correct expression. The person before me only mentioned it is hate speech if it calls for violence or crime, which I think is incorrect. As long as you insult someone and provoke any kind of psychological or social effect on the topics your definition clearly states, plus some others, it is hate speech, given the circumstances we are involved in, an online game where people you meet probably live in a completely different hemisphere and you will never get to know beyond this platform.
TLDR, hurting someone’s feelings isn’t hate speech but people who abuse these topics in the game don’t just tell you you are gay, they tell you you and your whole family should die because you were born an abomination and that they hope you are raped and brutalized because you were not meant to be.
Hate speech is very specific. What you are talking about is someone being a major prick/douche/jerk/[BAD WORD]/bully (please feel free to add more terms to the list). It is all reportable and should be stopped, I do not disagree. I disagree when you casually toss around a term like hate speech and try to apply it to everything. Being a victim of hate speech, violence and social phobias due to who and what I am, I know what it is. Someone calling you an abomination in an online game is not hate speech, its just being a prick. You lessen the impact of the phrase when you so casually use it however you want.
I’m not trying to apply the term to everything. Cyber-bullying is now considered hate speech in lots of places if it is related to certain topics (sexual orientation, women, etc etc) and while not every ingame troll is a bully, the idea is to prevent this from getting to that point.
I misread your abomination comment. For that I apologize. Your example clearly does fit as hate speech. Completely and totally.
I do stand though with the parts of my statement about the casual use of the term. Hate speech is very specific, and just because someone made you cry, it is not hate speech.
Oh btw, I do know people who were offended or upset because a friend of family member voted for a different candidate in an election. Sadly, it is rather common.
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Trust me, video game forums are a place to discuss almost anything. It can be interesting, surprising and rewarding. Try itRaven24 said:While i have a lot of thoughts about this topic, i don't think a video game forum is the place to discuss "hate speech" and the like. Please guys.
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Completely agree here. I'm way more interested in the opinions of people who I play my favourite game with, than some supposedly expert talking heads on TV. As long as it does not sink into flames, it's not only fun, but useful as wellGorgonia said:
Trust me, video game forums are a place to discuss almost anything. It can be interesting, surprising and rewarding. Try itRaven24 said:While i have a lot of thoughts about this topic, i don't think a video game forum is the place to discuss "hate speech" and the like. Please guys.
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@Orion said:
@Mushwin said:
@RushingSnipeBob said:
@not_Queen said:
Hello @DinaqmaLet me reassure you, we do ban for communication abuse. We have a team of Associate Community Managers that are working to make this game a safer and nicer place.
If you consult the game rules you can find this clause covering Communication Abuse:
HARASSMENT: COMMUNICATION ABUSE
Insults, intimidation, hateful speech, repeated harassment
In-game report REQUIREDYour responsibility in the case of communication abuse is to report through the in-game report.
We have access to chat logs and when players are flagged, the cases are investigated.
The escalation process for that offence is 24h / 48h / 1 week / Permanent banNote that we do not give any public information on the outcome of the investigations.
Hey, Queen,
Wouldn't it be easier to write an alghorytm that bans people instantly? For example, someone is calling one person a "#########", alghorytm catches that and bans said person for 24h, then for 1 day, then 1 week and then permabans the user.It would make the mods life a lot easier.
the ban idea is a good idea, but to ban for a good reason, death threats, racist posts etc, but if people were banned for swearing....not sure there would be a forum lol but i like the concept
I think an automated system for this would be a bad idea. Context matters, and an automated system can't distinguish between friendly banter using homophobic or racists slurs and homophobes or racists being themselves.
You do have a point...
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World's a crappy place, you can choose to be offended by it or not.
This isn't even the tip of the iceberg of being called names and insulted as far as I am concerned.
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The amount of people attempting to justify and brush away toxic and abusive behavior is atrocious.
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So I wont be able to call my friends "crazy ass #########"? No thanks, in-game report is the way to go. Mods have responsabilities as any other person, let them work and see if the reason why someone is reported deserves a ban or not.RushingSnipeBob said:@not_Queen said:
Hello @DinaqmaLet me reassure you, we do ban for communication abuse. We have a team of Associate Community Managers that are working to make this game a safer and nicer place.
If you consult the game rules you can find this clause covering Communication Abuse:
HARASSMENT: COMMUNICATION ABUSE
Insults, intimidation, hateful speech, repeated harassment
In-game report REQUIREDYour responsibility in the case of communication abuse is to report through the in-game report.
We have access to chat logs and when players are flagged, the cases are investigated.
The escalation process for that offence is 24h / 48h / 1 week / Permanent banNote that we do not give any public information on the outcome of the investigations.
Hey, Queen,
Wouldn't it be easier to write an alghorytm that bans people instantly? For example, someone is calling one person a "#########", alghorytm catches that and bans said person for 24h, then for 1 day, then 1 week and then permabans the user.It would make the mods life a lot easier.
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@Vortexas said:
If your fragile little hearts can't handle it, then click the leave button at the bottom of the screen.If you choose not to, then you are infact consenting to that person to tell you whatever they wish.
I agree whole heartedly! I also agree that they should just take the end game chat out and if people want to message you personally then they should send a private message. that way you don't have to hurry and leave so you dont see anyone typing in end game chat... I play on ps4 and if i get a crappy message, i send a derpy picture of my cat hahaha XD
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This has to be bait right? Lmao so why not just say thats lame or stupid or questionable? Its people like you that hinder progession for equality. You look at it as something small but in reality its that type of thinking that has spread ignorance . Gay means happy if anything. So using it in that context is wrong...George_Soros said:@sadmuffins13 said:
I dont have tolerance for people who say your gay and they mean your stupid. Just say your stupid. Black people dont like like the n word. Gays dont like the f word . like you can insult someone in so many way but choose to use sexual orientation as an insult? Pathetic...I love using "gay" not so much as a serious insult, but as something lame, stupid, questionable. You know: not something that's completely wrong, just... not quite right.
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He's talking about being called a f*g. That kind of homophobic slur.Blueberry said:@tt_ivi_99 said:
Saying someone is gay is not bad, its the same as saying a black person is black or a lesbian is lesbian.
O course the people who say that dont mean It in that way but devs cant do anyting if the context is not clearly verbal abuse (which would be calling you something like [bad word] gay, instead of just gay).
There has to be explicit verbal abuse in order to ban someone.This ^ basically.
Like being offended for calling the grass green. If someone calling you gay is offensive to you, then you are believing there is a negative connotation in being gay. You don't like gay people? That's pretty homophobic in itself. Pointing out something isn't offensive, stop getting offended so easily. Snowflakes everywhere.
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Yeah it is bait. But it's also true. And it's not wrong to use it in that context. Language is based on consensus, and this word is quite widely used in this sense. Like, "I don't know man, farming is kinda gay."sadmuffins13 said:
This has to be bait right? Lmao so why not just say thats lame or stupid or questionable? Its people like you that hinder progession for equality. You look at it as something small but in reality its that type of thinking that has spread ignorance . Gay means happy if anything. So using it in that context is wrong...George_Soros said:@sadmuffins13 said:
I dont have tolerance for people who say your gay and they mean your stupid. Just say your stupid. Black people dont like like the n word. Gays dont like the f word . like you can insult someone in so many way but choose to use sexual orientation as an insult? Pathetic...I love using "gay" not so much as a serious insult, but as something lame, stupid, questionable. You know: not something that's completely wrong, just... not quite right.
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It is wrong an if you cant see that then idk what to tell you.George_Soros said:
Yeah it is bait. But it's also true. And it's not wrong to use it in that context. Language is based on consensus, and this word is quite widely used in this sense. Like, "I don't know man, farming is kinda gay."sadmuffins13 said:
This has to be bait right? Lmao so why not just say thats lame or stupid or questionable? Its people like you that hinder progession for equality. You look at it as something small but in reality its that type of thinking that has spread ignorance . Gay means happy if anything. So using it in that context is wrong...George_Soros said:@sadmuffins13 said:
I dont have tolerance for people who say your gay and they mean your stupid. Just say your stupid. Black people dont like like the n word. Gays dont like the f word . like you can insult someone in so many way but choose to use sexual orientation as an insult? Pathetic...I love using "gay" not so much as a serious insult, but as something lame, stupid, questionable. You know: not something that's completely wrong, just... not quite right.
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And yet no bansnøbødy said:
He's talking about being called a f*g. That kind of homophobic slur.Blueberry said:@tt_ivi_99 said:
Saying someone is gay is not bad, its the same as saying a black person is black or a lesbian is lesbian.
O course the people who say that dont mean It in that way but devs cant do anyting if the context is not clearly verbal abuse (which would be calling you something like [bad word] gay, instead of just gay).
There has to be explicit verbal abuse in order to ban someone.This ^ basically.
Like being offended for calling the grass green. If someone calling you gay is offensive to you, then you are believing there is a negative connotation in being gay. You don't like gay people? That's pretty homophobic in itself. Pointing out something isn't offensive, stop getting offended so easily. Snowflakes everywhere.
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Can you explain why? (I assume you mean it's morally wrong somehow, not grammatically.) It's just another word expressing disapproval.sadmuffins13 said:
It is wrong an if you cant see that then idk what to tell you.George_Soros said:
Yeah it is bait. But it's also true. And it's not wrong to use it in that context. Language is based on consensus, and this word is quite widely used in this sense. Like, "I don't know man, farming is kinda gay."sadmuffins13 said:
This has to be bait right? Lmao so why not just say thats lame or stupid or questionable? Its people like you that hinder progession for equality. You look at it as something small but in reality its that type of thinking that has spread ignorance . Gay means happy if anything. So using it in that context is wrong...George_Soros said:@sadmuffins13 said:
I dont have tolerance for people who say your gay and they mean your stupid. Just say your stupid. Black people dont like like the n word. Gays dont like the f word . like you can insult someone in so many way but choose to use sexual orientation as an insult? Pathetic...I love using "gay" not so much as a serious insult, but as something lame, stupid, questionable. You know: not something that's completely wrong, just... not quite right.
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