Stop calling camping ,tunneling and slugging toxic.
It's something in the game, the devs deem it viable and more killers mains agree that it has to be used at some point or another.
So what else make it toxic?
"It'S unFuN" well unfortunately the game is unbalanced and tell me how many thought of that when using the meta perks that has gotten stale as hell ,bm the killer and private message the player to harass them.
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Survivors Run 4 META perks each, for 16 second chances, this includes CoH. Plus flashlights for saves and toolboxes to speed up gens. Plus voice comms SWF.
Also Survivors: Stop camping/tunneling/slugging! Stop being a sweatlord! It's unfun! 😫
Yes; Killers can be toxic, but I've never seen a Killer go 'DS crutch perk ggez noob!'
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I'd rather people just accept that stupid people say stupid things, especially when they're upset for one reason or another. Or no reason at all. It's not really toxic to do any of those things mentioned because it's part of the game and a strategy, for better or for worse. No killer who does those 3 things is doing it to be toxic, or for you to take it personally. Now, hitting on the hook, teabagging, or slugging and letting people bleed for an entire timer and others are.
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Toxic has become a meaningless buzzword popularised by content creators. However, I will say there's also a distinct aspect to the mentioned strategies, as well as some coming from the other side that can make the butt of it feel utterly miserable. That's something that shouldn't happen in video games either.
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Are they toxic by themselves? No. Are they tools used to be toxic? Yes.
If you have all 4 survivors in the dying state and just teabag ontop of them for 4minutes instead of just hooking them - is that just being strategic?
If you see a player wearing a pride flag and so you single them out every game and camp and tunnel them every game you are matched with them - is that toxic?
Yes, camping, tunneling and slugging can be strategic. This doesnt mean they cant be used for other purposes.
Can survivors crouch to evade the killer? Yes. Does that mean that survivors cant spam ctrl at the gate to try and be toxic?
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Well unfortunately like I said it's more a dev balancing problem than the killer using the tools in game to win.
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Ok first you are going a little off of what I am pointing out with this.
I am saying the tactics are not toxic, not saying it can't be used for toxic behaviour much like bming,flashlight clicking and so on that is more a player specific issue rather than a mechanic being deemed harrassment.
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That last one about waiting for the bleedout can be excused in very specific conditions such as waiting out bt or if you are playing swamp and a mixture of the color pallet and audio bugs messing you up.
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If you ask me, the only thing people do that is toxic is sending hate through endgame chat or DMing your opponent. You don't have to enjoy what your opposition does, but it does not make them a bad human for doing it.
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Iirc, the time for a survivor to bleed out is 4 minutes. DS lasts 1 minute. If they're looming over the survivor for that long it's not waiting out the DS or unbreakable.
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I agree though cause I have seen some legit arguments against it flashlight clicking should be considered as well only cause of people who are light sensitive.
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You're right. But if I spend 5-15 minutes in a queue, and get camped tunneled or slugged in every game, that's an hour of toxicity that I have no control over.
It's ultimately a combination of factors rather than just one aspect of the game. Killer queue's are wayy shorter for me, so I can see Survivor frustration over people 'playing the game the way they want to'.
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And if the hooks are too spread out much like in midwich at times?
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That's also a fair point and not one I initially considered. Maybe a feature could be added where if a flashlight is clicked a certain number of times in a certain timeframe, the survivor cant use it for, say, 15-20 seconds?
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Well sorry to say that's not a killer problem it's a dev problem thanks to them making the meta basically all but set in stone and making it where killers have to think they have said perks along with making most killers not up to par to what the game wants.
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Stop thinking the Killer trying to win is 'toxic'; problem solves. You'll get less angry over dying on the hook because you stopped thinking it's 'toxic'.
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I would actually make it where the charge decreases in higher increments depending on how many times the button is pressed in a span of 5-8 seconds.
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Even better! Would make many a survivor think twice before flashlight spamming. I'm all for changes that force survivors to be more tactical with there resources.
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If you are already aware of the systemic issue, it makes no sense complaining about Survivors complaining. You're justifying a method of play built within a flawed system that makes the experience terrible for individual survivors. Killers have to ENDURE toxic players, but they get to be in games more often. If Killers, who will naturally experience a higher volume of games (and therefore players) due to the way the system is built, do not develop a thicker skin, they are just shouting from a position of privilege that Survivors simply cannot reach due to game volume being drastically different on both sides.
So let them complain until the system is fixed. I'm trying to get 1M BP on both sides this month and I have to wait 5-10x longer as a Survivor to get matches. Of course toxic play is going to annoy me as survivor to no end; I don't have near-instant queues.
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Toxic has become short for "doing anything that I don't like in any given moment" for some people.
Camping/Tunneling/Slugging aren't inherently toxic, and I recognize them as legitimate strats. Do I (even as a killer) respect them? No, not really, outside of a certain range of circumstances (where doing so is the virtually the only way left to win). I think that killers who use these tactics as common practice probably just aren't that good, and it's lazy and boring. As a killer, I will only employ them to salvage something from a really dire situation later in a match, because it feels lazy to me.
But toxic? Unless they are used in a weirdly targeted and irrational way, no.
Do I expect people to adhere to my sensibilities? Of course not, that an absurd expectation. But I feel like a lot of people do, and therein lies the issue.
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Context and intentions matter.
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I always assumed the act of killing someone would be deemed toxic behavior. Regardless of how its done.
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Sluggers deserve all the mockery in the world.
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Nothing in this game is toxic besides cheating, chat toxicity, and doing things for the specific purpose of trying to upset others.
Tunneling because you are using that strategy to build or regain pressure? Completely fine.
Tunneling just because you want to try and make one person's game miserable? Toxic.
Teabagging because you're trying to pull the killer's attention away from a weaker teammate? Completely fine.
Teabagging because you're trying to piss off the killer for the sake of pissing them off? Toxic.
So on and so forth.
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Yeah but if I tunnel someone for bringing Boon: Circle of OP, and I don't want my pressure negated in 0.025 seconds; They will claim I was toxic because I ruined their fun.
See how one man's 'Tactical' is another man's 'Toxic a-hole'? This is why we can't allow tactics to be labeled toxic; because once we allow it for ANY REASON; salty people angry they lost will screech that they were bullied.
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Again, you missed the point regarding this being a systemic issue, please look up the definition. These behaviors wouldn't be deemed toxic if the system in place didn't punish Survivors by having long wait times between matches. So I believe Survivors, due to the system essentially double punishing them by putting them with a Killer that tunneled them out of the game, and then forcing them to wait 10 minutes for the cycle to possibly repeat, have valid complaints about the Killers they encounter. It isn't merely 'just move on' its 'move on and wait for another match, and have the uncertainty that it will happen again to you'. The waiting makes the experience stale because now I have to wait to be tunneled in another match. Killers don't have this issue because their queues are instant and they dictate the survivor experience.
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It's very toxic to beat me.
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Why?
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I don't even know where to start with this , you're apparently saying it has to be where killers should suck it up because it sucks for solo players is that right?
What I said about it being a dev problem is that if the game was more balanced queue times wouldn't be a problem cause there would be more of a reason for people to play both sides why else do you think so many people play survivor and decide not to play killer or having to make list on how to make killer fun along with what I said in the beginning a lot of killer mains especially ones with high mmr admitted to needing to do it at some instances.
Also saying that killers are shouting from a place a privilege is kinda ironic when survivors at least lately are stereotyped to be entitled as hell.
And as the last bit again its cause the game's unbalanced look at the game's current state of affairs and really wonder why the queues are the way that they are.
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Which to some people is true however I'm saying it as a whole. Yes there are some people who abuse camping tunneling and slugging just to spite other much like people abuse stuff on the survivor side.
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I don't like to make sweeping generalizations. They're almost never true.
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It doesn’t matter what it is. If it’s within rules (aka, not cheating/chat toxicity), nothing is toxic unless the person doing it is doing it specifically for the purpose of trying to make people upset. Camping/tunneling/slugging/teabagging/flashlight clicking/etc are not toxic inherently.
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Same here but, this game seems to have a fetish with the all in approach of complaining about #########
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I get that you were trying to be amusing, but from the past few posts I've seen yes you do.
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I didn't want to seem petty and bring it up because I was arguing with them on another similar thread, and it's not good taste to follow people around on the forums, even if it's unintentional.
Thank you.
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I dont wish to derail this thread so if you could be so kind as to just comment on my profile to elaborate on this I would appreciate it. Thanks.
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I get it when the Killer slugs a survivor who tries to bodyblock them when they're carrying another survivor to a hook. It's a logical thing to do and Starstruck is here to punish careless and overly confident survivors who try to swarm the Killer and make them drop a downed player.
However, when the Killer just dedicates the entire trial to pursuing and slugging survivors one by one, there is a 99% they are BMing ape, who, in fact, wants to prolong the game, making it as much of a pain in the arse for survivors as they can, for no other reason than being a BMing ape.
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Slugging is a hard one to place due to things like midwich's hook spacing and multiple dead zone areas in other maps its hard to say that all instances of slugging and bleeding out is bm rather than saying its a last resort at times.
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They aren't toxic.
I think people have forgotten the word 'cheesy' though. That word is far more accurate imho.
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How come you say camping, slugging and tunneling is toxic, but teabagging, clicky clicky are not toxic, huh? These are unfun, but genrush is not unfun for the killer? Sure...
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Did you read the title?
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It was already too late when I realized I read it wrong and there's no delete comment option neither
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Heh at least you understand it :)
Honestly right now the game is basically screwed when it comes to balancing it.
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Simple.
Camping, slugging and tunneling are strategies. They are a tactic used to win the game. Hell, I'd say that slugging is essential at times (to prevent saves/DS) and tunneling isn't even really a thing (it's mostly a matter of 'hey, I keep finding you, play more cautiously').
Teabagging, flicking etc. serve no purpose aside from being nasty. They are usually used to gloat and disrespect your opponent when you win. I seldom see if from people who are losing (although it tends to be followed by me immediately tunneling you out of the game, so perhaps there is a correlation :D).
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So you believe it is cause it leads to people being outed from the game?
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Then how to be nasty as killer lol
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Hitting on hook would be a good example, or leaving everyone to bleed out.
Believe it is...what?
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they probably leave everyone to bleed out cause there's no hooks nearby. Or they try to swarm a camping killer hook but they all go down cause of their altruism.
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Face it folks, camping and tunneling is exactly what the devs want in this game. It is the single most efficient way to get 2 to 3 kills. That is MMR gold! It is also very easy and does not require much skill or effort.
Stop complaining about it. The devs have pushed this as the primary strategy at this point.
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Stop giving people who do that any attention.
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Careful. The Bubba masks are being removed because people used them to target POC. If people make the same complaints about the Pride Charm we might lose it too. You know, instead of just removing the toxic players that are causing the problems.
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