Toxicity pays off

Ok so the smart face gets removed :people are still going to be racist #########

Camp/tunneling: is not toxic and just shows survivor biased if the devs make bt base

Slugging is part of the game as well same with crouching

This game rewards people being horrible along as it is something that doesn't get the devs in hot water that's why cheating still persist.

So now you're not speaking in hyperbole and more measured responses? Great, lets breakdown the nonsense of your assumption. Toxicity will not move the devs beyond anything clearly racist and gamebreaking.

• Flashlight macros
• EGC hostage holding
• Mass Slugging

Not even a modicum of activity from the devs for months and months.

So why do you think sanctioned activities like tunneling and camping are going to be nerfed? Also, in cased you missed the boat, they made no promise or indication of BT basekit, and when they did discuss it by absense of outright denying it, they didn't attribute it to toxic activity.

Your response makes me sad. I'm assuming you typoed. Making BT basekit would not be an attempt toxicity. If it DID happen, despite no evidence that it will, or anytime soon, or in it's current form, then it would happen because the Devs decided they want to take away another killer strategy. Not because they believe it's toxic. Literally the best streamers camp and tunnel when necessary to win their games, I have no clue why you're so desperate to brand it as toxic.

This is what you wrote:

"They've clearly solved racism by removing the SmartFace cosmetics from the game so clearly if they do make BT basekit now it cant be due to racism anymore? Whats left then?"

Either you worded it wrong or you did something else.

The complaints about tunneling and camping are a misnomer. Those tactics are on the rise because COH has singlehandedly removed the divide and conquer strat. Full stop. The devs can fix that easily by further adjusting COH.

Again, using legitimate strats to harass people will never result in those legitimate strats being curbed. They will only be curbed if the devs don't want them to be legitimate strats anymore. The devs ain't the brightest bunch this side of the gaming industry but they deserve more credit than you are giving them.

Smartface was just a cosmetic. It had no direct impact on gameplay. Removing it, improving the reporting system, punishing griefers more effectively, doesn't matter what they did because smartface isn't a strat. Your whole point is a false correlation.

So the whole point was to speculate on something due to the absence of referencing something in a comment made by the devs who have a HORRIBLE track record of bringing anything they say to fruition?

Yikes. And you spoke with so much certainty in your thread opener too.

But lets run with this scenario: if this would hold true and survivors could not be slugged, camped, proxi-camped, tunneled, while killers could be no longer blinded, bodyblocked, pallet slammed or hook sabotaged, what would be left of the game? Would every complainer be happy then when the game only consists of doing gens and running around circles?

Asking the REAL questions here.

I disagree with your entire premise, there is no misunderstanding there. Several people have responded saying the same thing. The devs will not ban strats to manage toxicity. Full stop.

Okay.

Edit: Fixed two typos so Xan wouldn't lose his mind.

Yes you can bring those up again, and my concerns were still valid. Yet, those concerns have nothing to do with the fact that we are now crystal clear. Your stance is wrong.

BHVR will not nerf strats to address toxicity. Especially when the claim of toxicity is weak.

My stance is common sense. Flashlights aren't going away because of click macros, crouching isn't going away because of tbagging. Tunneling isn't going away because of some killers using it as a BM tool. There is no evidence to draw such a ridiculous conclusion. Or to even wield that as some kind of forum warning to toxic killers. (Not like it would make them hesitate for 2 nanoseconds anyway)

I don't know why you need to agree to disagree if you keep making nonsense call outs of my responses and dismissing me. If you want to agree to disagree, you can just stop and it would be implied.

Camping/tunneling is not toxic, but it's very easy to abuse in public games. If people didnt abuse it against randoms, there would be no plans of making BT basekit.

There have been many things made "basekit" to address mechanics that are abusable to both sides. Doesnt mean they are exploited, just that their effectiveness is a bit too good as a vanilla mechanic. Like, back in the day, doing gens with 3 people was optimal, on average, 1 gen would pop every 25 seconds. So a vanilla Thanatophobia was given to survivors based on how many people worked on any single gen.

Look at the basekit BT to be a quick solution to camping and tunneling early game. I feel like it might only be applied to the first 3 unhooks in the game. Because at some point, you cant really consider chasing any survivor a tunnel any longer. Not on every unhook.

I gave you the benefit of a doubt and rewatched your timestamps

1) Where did they say it was toxic and unfun? Where did they say they were trying to outright take it away? Those are your words. And in fact, if you only used the word 'unfun', I'd of said great, you might be onto something there! But you didn't, from the get go your thread has been about toxicity. Lets not move the goalpost now.

2) And you're connecting this to toxicity how?

3) Smartface is not a perk, it is not a functional aspect of the game. It is a cosmetic. Borrowed time is a tool, Dead hard is a tool. You are creating a very loose definition to associate these facets of the game and it doesn't track.

As for my comments on flashlights and crouching. SURE, they could absolutely do that, but then guess what? Those tools would still function to the advantage of the player using them exactly as they were designed to. They wouldn't disappear. Non-toxic people wouldn't be punished.

Your entire premise is wrong.

Not fun does not equal toxic. Again.

BT basekit, again, the devs made no mention that they are considering it because they think camping or tunneling is toxic. Hell, they didn't even say they're considering it. They just said they're not not considering it. So we may see it in 2 years. And when we do, it won't be an attempt to address toxicity.

We're not going around in circles, you're twisting yourself into knots.

We're still not going around in circles. I've addressed that nothing you've said at any point in this thread indicates or even supports BHVR nerfing these tactics due to toxicity. You just make weird counterclaims like, "When did I say we'd ever see changes in the next day or week or month."

Even if the tactics aren't overperforming. They've become the norm. That's why BHVR is looking into it. Again, they don't consider it toxic, and toxic people aren't getting tactics nerfed for non-toxic people.

You can beg to agree to disagree all you want, you're just wrong.

A large portion of the community cried about it being toxic, and that makes it toxic? And that also makes it why BHVR is nerfing it?

That's correlation without causation, sir.

The 2 years time was just some extra exposition. I'll give you a pass on not understanding that since you were so lenient about the sarcasm.

I know you're wrong. That's the difference. Just like any killer who says dead hard is toxic would be wrong. Valid tactics are not toxic. If Dead hard sees a nerf, it will be because BHVR believes it's overperforming or it's being chosen too much. If tunneling/camping sees a nerf, it will be because BHVR believes it's overperforming or being chosen too much.

These are not cosmetics.

Buddy,

Your entire thread is about toxicity. OG Freddy does not compute here, anywhere. And the claims of toxicity are NOT what drive BHVR's decision making.

Even with Smartface, there is documented activity of players stalking and harassing specific players and streamers, it has nothing to do with the crying on the forum. It's based on actionable evidence.

I don't think quoting you has proved any more efficacious. Forgive me for getting creative.

IF you believe they're getting addressed because they're PERCEIVED as toxic, I disagree with you and I've demonstrated why in my previous response.

IF you believe they're getting addressed because they are toxic, I disagree with you and I've demonstrated why in previous responses.

You are drawing a zero evidence conclusion either way, it is all correlation, and it appears just about everyone except this new stalker I have has misunderstood you if you're really genuine about the whole "I didn't actually say it was toxic" spiel. It's the association that is incorrect in either scenario. Toxicity is not what is driving these potential changes. Nor is forum crying (Although both sides love to claim that's the case).

I ignored the part about you asking people to be nice to each other because it's common sense. I've only ever slugged-to-death survivors that were clearly being inappropriate. Same way I only T-Bag and EGC hostage against killers that do the same (Which to be clear, is not camping and tunneling.)

TLDR: I'm not offended, your arguments are bad.

Okay, that's a bit easier for me to unpack. I think the correlation without causation on this forums has long been entrenched to the point where too many people accept it as fact. The Spirt nerfs came about, and tons of people were complaining about her. But was the complaining on the forum the justification for the nerf?

The reality is she was STUPID STRONG. She could sit at a pallet and the survivor would have to suicide into her. It was honestly nuts. It is likely that OG Freddy was overperforming by BHVR's standards too (Remember, brought to you by the guys who believe Twins is currently overperforming). There is evidence that Deathslinger was over picked at red ranks and while there was complaints about him, they weren't nearly as prolific as complaints about Spirit, OG Freddy, or a myriad of other addressed issues. He should've easily flown under the radar.

But he didn't.

BHVR gets it wrong. A lot. But they're not using forum whining as a metric, nor are they using cry wolf complaints about toxicity. Edit: In fact, we've seen their representatives question the desires of this forum to over label things as toxic, including post game chat.

Inappropriate as a survivor: Intentionally sandbagging their teammates. I watched a survivor I previously hooked go AFK and then run up to me with a crow halo and start t-bagging waiting for me to get him out of the game, so I slugged him until he DC'd. If you're going to intentionally sabotage your teammates, you're eating the 4 minute slug or DC'ing. I will make certain of it.

T-Bagging and clicking are both valid ways to sensory obfuscate against killers. An argument can be made against flashlight macros. Especially when the survivor is clearly using it just to show he has one.

Inappropriate as a killer: Huntress picked a survivor, slugged them, and then spent the entire game throwing hatchets at their slugged body without attempting to win. We did every gen, got the person up repeatedly, body blocked for them and then twerked at the exit gate until the EGC collapsed because she refused to go after us. I do not know what her deal was. I consider it very hard for a killer to be inappropriate. If they're playing for their win there really isn't anything they can do that is toxic.

All bets are off once Post-game chat boots up.