Do you agree with Otz
When he says that Noed is a S tier (5 stars) perk ? Is it really that good ?
Comments
-
He puts Hex Ruin up at S. In no way shape or form can I agree with this tier. It goes down in 20 seconds my last 8 games. I actually changed it out as a result.
32 -
Just looking at the list it seems like the list has quiet a few perks pushed up a tier because the bottom tiers ran out.
I mean how in the world is "Hex: Thrill of the Hunt", "Monitor and Abuse"(core on some killers but useless on the rest aka niche), "Agitation", and "Hex:Retribution" not all niche perks? Just to name a few.
Edit: Aka take the positions with a grain of salt due to perks being pushed up.
8 -
Ruin is an S tier perk, IMO. Yes it can get cleansed within minutes of a match starting, but the actual effect of it is very strong if it stays up/the totem is well hidden. Most people tend to pair it up with undying after the nerf to get a little bit of more value out of it.
Unlike the majority of the community that complains about NOED, I actually love it as a survivor. To me nothing is more intense than a NOED end game. Trying to rescue the hooked survivor, trying to find NOED to cleanse it....it's all so intense.
Would I classify it as an S tier perk? Personally for me I wouldn't. For me, it'd be around B+ tier or low A tier. The effect is strong, but I don't think it makes a ton of 4k's as many survivors would make you think it does. At most it's one guaranteed kill because most survivors (I solo queue) will escape immediately once the NOED activates and alerts everyone.
8 -
Nope. Hence I never use it.
3 -
The amount of times a killer with 2 hooks has managed to secure 2 kills justifies it in my opinion. Ever since Boon totems were introduced, survivors are less likely to hunt down all the totems, so it's much more likely to survive than something like Ruin for example. I'd probably put it in the same category as well, with maybe an asterisk next to it.
0 -
Ruin being an S tier perk is under the assumption that it stays up for a decent amount of time. If it gets cleansed early, bad luck, but extremely valuable if it stays up until late game.
He doesn't have a tier for "Niche" perks, only "weak niche". Those are niche, but not weak.
0 -
NOED is at best Decent cause it's 50/50
0 -
Well, I don't know how he went about doing this list, but if you take a really good scenario, NOED can easily take a literal 0 hook game and could sacrifice all 4 with it.
Situations like that happen almost every game and I can confidently say that out of all the times i brought NOED in the past 4 years i remember the survivors cleansing all 5 totems one single time.
0 -
There are some perks I would disagree with. For example Oppression is a Regression + Information perk, having 2 in 1 is in most cases a pretty solid perk so I would put it one tier up. And some of the higher ranked perks I would not put there because for STBFL I would say it only beneifts 4 killers really well, others will get less to no value and super rarely will get to maximum stacks unless you choose to ignore your obsession which can be tactically bad and also kinda abused when the obsession notices it.
For NOED... I think it can be kinda countered easily but most survivors just don't care about it and then get caught offguard. It definitely is strong, especially looking at the mass of games where it heavily carries the killer. But I think I wouldn't put it to Top level, at least one tier down
0 -
With some perks yeah I agree, with noed being S tier? Not really unless you are using someone like nurse or spirit.
If perks are all over the place instead of a list then sure, but no way mindbreaker is better than enduring or IF, also BBQ is nowhere near as good as TT, maybe he only put those perks randomly but as is, I don't agree with certain perks being above the others.
Whoops, forgot to answer your question, no, Noed is that great to be S tier maybe A but with a dedicated build.
2 -
Yes.
3 -
I don't see any hex as a good choice in the boon meta. I choose my killer loadout based on how I play survivor.
5 -
yea it turns the game around and most of the time they dont find it in time
0 -
Has value practically every game unless you win before it activates so yes.
Monitor, Thrill and Agitation I can all understand being where they are, Monitor is pretty good on most killers, Thrill is great with the coh meta and Agitation reduces the need to slug as you waste less time hooking a survivor. I will agree however that retribution should be pushed down a tier.
1 -
Its about power of the perk. Not accounting how long it stays up
1 -
In a situation where your ruin stays à long time and you can défend it well?
Its over S tier as a time gain on gens
0 -
Yeah, it is probably S-tier, but it depends on you. For players that are already good, it is probably s-tier. It will probably not be anywhere near as good for mediocre players. Also, like all Hex based perks it has its drawbacks. If it spawns in an easily visible place, it can be cleansed before you can get any use out of it. Also, teams dedicated to cleansing dull totems can remove its potential to spawn in the first place.
Everyone has their own opinions on the ranks of perks, so take those opinions with a grain of salt, especially if they don't provide any reasoning for it. Otz has a 16+ hour video where he explains every perk in the game and why he ranks them where he does. I wouldn't just look at his tier list without listening to his explanation for why he ranks them as he does.
Post edited by illusion on1 -
I run Lethal Pursuit on nurse and it still goes down like a hobo on a ham sandwich. The survivors ability to spawn on it, communicate it to the team, and then make sure it goes down has been ubiquitous in ALL of my games.
1 -
I do know he absolutely loves Retribution. He found alot of value during his 50 win streaks.
1 -
Noed has had a comeback. People are less likely to cleanse dull totems due to the fact that you can not have boons up if people cleanse them. At least it activates more often.
3 -
I don't blame you for not seeing it due to the low picture quality but there is a / in-between the words weak and niche.
/ usually means and/or.
So the tier is for perks if its weak AND/OR niche. Iron maiden being in that tier is an example of that.
1 -
No, I think he just really wants it nerfed. I think a lot of what he says is odd and doesn't make much sense when it comes to ranking things. Freddy bottom 5 , for instance
5 -
Nah. I've quite often disagreed with a lot of perks he likes.
3 -
Every perk that has guaranteed or almost guaranteed value is a candidate for the high tiers.
If the value comes in the form of actually fulfilling your objective (aka hooks and kills, which in this case follow immediately from the ability to get a a quick down), then of course that translates into a S-tier contender.
Noed is an almost guaranteed value, because the times it's pre-cleansed are basically non-existent even in comp. Camping is also a counter to pre-cleansing.
A build like Corrupt, Deadlock, Noed and a 4th perk depending on the killer, is pure S-tier out of the sheer fact that it's guaranteed value in game-changing area.
It's guaranteed slowdown (denying your opponent's ability to complete their objective) and it's guaranteed speed-up of your objective.
Camping your first down to death and having the time left for another hook before gen completion, ensures a guaranteed Noed proc and puts any killer in a prime position for a snowball.
This should net you 3ks consistently and 2ks on a bad day or if you're going against prime teams. If you get anything less, then you ######### up royally along the line, or you're playing an m1 killer.
To put this onto perspective, a 6-hook-stage performance with only 2 unique hooks is considered fairly straightforward to achieve in comp.
Tl;dr yes, Otz is right on the money about noed being S-tier. He also did an entire stream just getting 4ks by camping warly game and then wrapping up with noed. Iirc, only a 4-man who streamsniped him broke the streak (don't quote me on that). I haven't had a look at the rest of the classification.
5 -
Well most comp killers use ruin undying corrupt noed so...
1 -
I would agree that ruin, as a hex perk, is a bit of a gamble and far too inconsistent to be S. Everything else I would agree with though.
3 -
Lol jolt for all intents and purposes is a hot garbage perk
0 -
I don't understand how anyone can really argue against NOED being S tier. It is an amazing perk and there's a reason killers can go from a 0k to a 4k out of nowhere when using it.
Some will say "it can get destroyed before end game" to which I say you must've been playing terribly that game if survivors found time to cleanse 5 totems.
As for the rest of the tier list I don't have any major problems with it. The only one I look at and think "I wouldn't put it there" is Whispers. I think it's a badly out of date perk.
7 -
NOED is without a doubt the best killer perk in the game. Some might question your ability to properly play the game for picking it but those are usually survivor mains who don't want killers to have strong perks. The fact remains that it's a pretty damn efficient perk, so why not pick it?
If they get to abuse all their 2nd chance perks then we also get to use the one perk that's meant to punish their constant refusal to perish.
2 -
Noed is only strong at the moment because with boon perks, noone does totems anymore.
2 -
Lethal Pursuer should be taken down to weak and switched with Bitter murmur.
0 -
He rated shadowborn as terrible. I dont agree with otz at all
0 -
It's the only perk that can completely turn around a possibly 0k round into 4k round. It may not be seen by some as high as S-tier, because it can also be a perk that never sees any use when added to a build. However, in terms of power, and if a killer has a chance to use it, other than Devour Hope there is no Hex stronger.
Speaking of which, I'd say Devour Hope, in terms of power, is also S-tier. Maybe because it's revealed so early makes it less useful?
0 -
Some will say "it can get destroyed before end game" to which I say you must've been playing terribly that game if survivors found time to cleanse 5 totems.
More importantly, if they cleansed all five totems, they've likely lost more time than they would've if you were running Thanatophobia with all 4 injured from the instant they spawn to the moment they leave.
The only time NOED doesn't give value is if it pops and gets cleansed before you get a down with it.
2 -
Agitation is very good, I would put it behind deadlock in his tier list. It counters :
- survivors bodyblocking (will happen often at high mmr)
- sabotage
- secure pain resonance hooks
- allow basement hooks (which are very strong)
- combo with starstruck (for nurse)
It’s very underrated.
As for noed being S tier, I am not surprised at all, my main build is noed + no way out giving me another full minute to kill them all while they are exposed. It’s very strong with tunneling also.
1 -
by virtue of equipping the perk, on average, noed increases killer's killrate by 1. If your going by raw kill statistics, its most impactful killer perk out of all them because if the perk didn't activate, it means that you didn't need it because you outperform opposition so much that it was not required.
Even a survivor team knows you have NOED, It does not become ineffective, it merely changes the perk to a generator slowdown perk. OTZ made a video at point, It is title as "What's the best anti-totem perk? | Dead by Daylight", In his experiment, he was trying figure out how long it takes for survivors to cleanse all 5 totems assuming no perks. on average, it would take 2 minutes with 2 players. 2 minutes for 2 player being afk is a large amount of time, blows out every generator defense perk in the game.
many would say that noed is very unskillful perk, anyone can use it but that couldn't be further from truth. when the survivor guess that the killer has the perk, the killer needs to put time pressure on survivors to make cleansing as difficult such that cleansing/finding totems might not be practical time investment. furthermore, the killer needs to be able to deal a lot of damage when noed becomes active to get value out of the perk. Its one of those perks that can sometimes 0ks in 3k or at very least challenge the survivor for their escape
detective hutch+map is only real perk item combination that questions its effectiveness. both item and perk are not that common.
1 -
Exactly. I'm quite shocked anyone is disputing that being anything less than S tier. In my opinion it's 100% in the top 3 killer perks in the whole game.
0 -
From a standpoint of getting you kills, yes.
0 -
Imo any Hexes would automatically go in the 2 star tier.
1 -
Yes...but keep in mind that Otz is using a different axis for 'good' than you are.
Otz is putting value on how these perks operate under *ideal conditions*. Maximum power. Which is likely due to the fact that he's got 8000 hours into this game, and is thus most likely to be able to achieve those conditions more frequently.
It's why he overvalues (in my opinion) fragile perks like Ruin, super contextual/gamesense ones like NOED, Pop and NWO etc. For most players, these perks will be 'streaky' - they'll be amazing one game and useless the next. For a high end player playing at what is likely the MMR cap, he's good enough to make them consistent.
1 -
Ruin and pop are nowhere near S tier. This is why tier system is not a very good system to judge power of anything with, everyone has a different opinion.
1 -
Of course it’s S tier.
0 -
B tier at best imo. Most of the time you'll get 1 down and it'll get cleansed and then you'll end up with nothing or you'll get lucky and the Survivors will straight up leave, ending with you getting 1 more Kill
0 -
I don’t know about that one. Technically NOED is a relatively weak perk with huge counterplay, but survivors insist on unnecessarily feeding into it more often than not, so they artificially inflate its power level.
I run a boon build with a map and I’ve cleansed NOED within 30 seconds of it popping every time without fail. Even without this build all you need is for everyone to occasionally click on a totem and play it safe in the end game. Of course solo queue being what it is, I understand why people like Otz think NOED is stronger than what it actually is.
0 -
I don't think it's 5 stars just due to it not making sense on every killer. Killers that can keep you from leaving at the gate like Pinhead and Deathslinger it makes a lot of sense on but blight or billy who's entire power centers around not doing basic attacks? I don't like it on them at all so I'd rate it 4 stars probably amazing when it works feels like a wasted slot when it doesn't.
0 -
No.
0 -
what are the criterias for this tier list?
0 -
no.
its not a bad perk, but its absolutely not at that strength level.
i think its a pretty mediocre Perk.
i mean, what does NOED realistically do for the Killer?
it gets you one additional down. after that, everyone is aware of its presence and should just leave you - yeah the Killer gets one additional hook and kill, but that wont really change the outcome of the match (unless you soley focus on escapes / kills when looking at a matches outcome - so in a way thats another great argument against that way of thinking). and that is assuming that it triggers in the first place or doesnt blow up shorty after activating, at which point its utterly useless and cant even get you that one kill secured.
the only way NOED wins a Killer the match or anything close to that is, when the Survivors, despite knowing of its existance, throw themselves at the hook because they'd rather all die than leave their friend behind / get overconfident and think they could get away with stupid actions because they "already won" (e.g. running in to bodyblock for a friend mid chase).
0 -
I use Agitation+Pain Resonance on almost all my killers right now, and Starstruck on about half. It's a brilliant combo that far too many sleep on and tons of people have absolutely no idea how to play around it. It causes absolute havoc.
1 -
It seems like he is rating them off of the potential they hold. NOED can be useless, but it can also win you the game easily. Same with Ruin, Ruin can give insane value, but could also not. I can see that pattern looking down through the list as well, the lower the perk's higher potential, the worse they are ranked.
I can agree with NOED being a top perk, a perk that can be really hard to get rid of when the killer is actually good, and gives insane value in the situation where the survivors still finish gens is a good perk. The only time NOED can really faulter is when the killer is really bad, and survivors are really good. If any of the situations are more even (both sides bad or both sides really good) than NOED has huge potential.
1
