BHVR and their issues

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that what Patrick said regarding skill and escaping is not that escaping is the sole arbiter of skill, but that escaping is a reliable indicator of skill. Which... even factoring in unfavouable scenarios like facecamping (which isn't super fair to do because the devs also don't like facecamping), that's still true? If you escape more often than you die, that probably means that you're more skilled than if you die more often than you escape.

I think what's tripping so many people up is that they expect the MMR system to swing heavily after one game, which this one (and any other MMR system you care to mention) looks far more at general trends. In general, how often do you escape? That's your goal, after all, so if you're not escaping there are two reasons why that might be: You were outclassed in terms of skill in the majority of your matches, or you're more interested in testing/practicing things that won't get you through the exit gates. In either case, lowering your MMR would be the right call.

Same for kills. If you're getting a lot of kills in your matches, that means one of two things: The survivors you're facing aren't that skilled, or you're using cheap and unfun tactics like facecamping. In either scenario, your MMR should go up, so you can go against survivors who can handle you.

This isn't rocket science? It's not that "if you don't escape you're not skilled", it's that escaping is what you're supposed to be leveraging your skill to achieve.

Well, here's an example where you're kinda wrong:

There is a fairly big chance that you'd cross a certain threshold as an altruistic survivor, where you rescue teammates and end up dying even though 3 people escape. In all logic, survivors won that match, so ALL survivors should gain MMR. Yet you dont, so you get faced with worse killers. The threshold is a region of killers that I would call current MMR hell, where if you're too good at looping and your teammates arent good enough at doing things like cleansing totems. So you end up getting downed because of NOED, or downed after 4 gens and the 5th gen popping while you're already on the hook, and NOED giving the killer effectively 1 free kill. Since you're a better player overall than your teammates, you're very likely to start your match running across the map, where your teammates walk, meaning there is a higher chance of you being found earlier, meaning there is a relatively high likelihood of you being chased all game and getting camped with NOED, again dropping.

You can see how this isnt good for MMR. You have 3 survivors escaping everytime, but the game assumes you lost. Back to the hockey analogy that Patrick has given us: This is like you getting fired from every team you joined, even if all the teams you joined 10-0, with you scoring 7 goals everytime.

I think the main problem with mmr, or at least, the way the devs refer to it during the q&a, is that it only revolves around a parameter that by itself doesn't necessary show any skill, escapes and kills.

Obviusly there is a certain skill factor behind how many times you can escape a trial and how many kills you can make in the limited time killers have. The problem comes when you compare mmr with the other parameters the game adds into the game, when te one blendette that didn't do anything gets more mmr than the one juicer survivor who was lef behind after the last gen pop or the one basement bubba who had 1 hooj and camped it for the kill vs any killee who manage to put every survivor in deathhook and didn't got any kill.

Oh no, his hockey analogy is normally perfect for describing MMR. Because if you have both sides win games, there is an MMR bloat that can inflate MMR extremely. Like, right now, the MMR peak should be reached around 3000 MMR and that shouldnt really be reached untill around September this year. But there is also an MMR deflation, where both sides lose games. And this is currently the case.

I dont care for the hooks, people want hooks to be part of MMR, but hooks dont really matter. You might be more skillful in general, but you've lost the game. A killer who gets 2 kills at 1900 MMR will be better than someone who gets 8 hooks but 0 kills at 1800 MMR, simply because they knew when they needed to get a kill. There are 3 types of skill in this game: strategic skill(aka, being at the right place, at the right time, placing things at the right location and knowing where you're needed most), interactive skill(aka, chasing and mindgames during the chase) and decision making(aka, knowing when to ditch a chase, knowing when you need to kill/hook/slug someone, knowing when to work on gens).

The MMR for killers is quite well rounded for this, because decision making is easily the most important skill for killers. If you make horrible decisions, it doesnt matter how good you are at chasing or being where you need to be. Where with survivors, interactive skill is the most important skill. You can have teammates who make horrible decisions, as long as you have at least 1 player who is really good in chase, you can end up buying more time to compensate for those decisions(up to a certain point).

Killers gain and lose MMR based around their most important skill, but survivors dont.(yet) And that is a problem for MMR.

The thing is, how do you make a survivor MMR that includes Chase without creating an MMR bloat? Especially with killers like Nurse and Wraith who can barely have any chase at all? It's actually simpler than you might think: have survivors compete amongst themselves for chase. If you simply add the equation of (your chasetime/total chasetime)*total gained MMR and (total chasetime/your chasetime)*total lost MMR, you spread out the MMR among survivors based on chase, but the total gained MMR/lost MMR will be based on escaping. So if you looped the killer for 5 gens, but survivors still lose, you barely lose any MMR compared to your teammates, but if you looped the killer for 5 gens, die and 3 teammates escape, you still gain MMR.

The issue with a system like that, is that it cant really be applied when you leave the match, since the match continues after you've died. But you can also simply have the player gather MMR and process it every hour(so you could have +30 MMR from 1 match, -20 from match 2 and +10 from match 3 and once the clock strikes XX:00, you'd gain 20 MMR), or everytime you log out. Because as people have stated before: MMR doesnt swing matches insanely much, even if you apply MMR once a day at 11 AM EST, it would still not swing matches insanely much, but it would be quite accurate overtime.

The thing people doesnt understand about MMR. It's working correctly and MMR itself is the main problem because it doesnt fit to the game so that hockey game explanation was on point. Because there are no such game calculates how you play in the game and give you mmr point like that. They are really simple. Win = + points, lose = - points. However. The game DBD itself is broken. For many and any sides. The game itself even is RNG based, so many of your games decided by the system itself.

Imagine you escape or took 4K in a match. And then you completely matched with the same people. And you played with the same quality and the way you played on the last match is the same. There are no guarantees for you even if the all circumstances are the same because this game is RNG based. That's what people doesn't understand. You guys wanted to have a "fair" matchmaking at the very first beginning. To calculate that, they have to use the MMR system. And now people are quitting the game.

The game DBD can never been balanced. The game's nature has to be changed for that. Then may MMR system can work nicely. MMR system is nothing but a mathematical system. And the way you play, way you loop, way you get the kills are not important for this system because they are like emotions to maths. They doesnt have any value and wont gonna change the final results that you died or couldnt get the kills so your MMR drops down, and you cant expect from a system to have feelings to calculate those things. They are not important. There were never been a system like that. There were never been a game like DBD too so thats why developers seems like "struggling" about those.

The only option for this game to be truely working like the way the community wants is removing the RNG, but people will even complain about this too. So just accept the game way it is until there are new games like the way you want.

I am saying why people keeps playing dbd is just DBD is a unique game. At least for now. And the 1v4 game style is not like 5v5 moba matches or any other pvp game you can find around. Especially DBD is heavily RNG based game so you only have 2 options. Cry about the game when its nature is based on to be "unbalanced" or just play something else. Because DBD can never be balanced as people wants it to be unless the game has a huge rework. No nerf nor buff will balance the game. There will be always problems for people who are unlucky about the RNG most of the time. Even everything is balanced and seems good about killer and perk sides, people will start to complain about bad designs and RNG. This is what i am saying. It is the nature of the game.

And tbh to balance killers and perks are also impossible because of RNGs. Even map sizes are completely and absurdly non similar. They need a core idea to balance those kind of things around shits, but it is impossible. Which scenario they will think? For example nerfing killers. Only a little buff or nerf can make them overpowerful depends on maps. Imagine like the worst RNG for survivors on Dead Dawg killer will dominate, meanwhile it can be really bad on The Game when its a pallet factory RNG. Thats what i am saying. Lets think about RNG side. Imagine a survivor almost everytime gets those broken maps and RNG so even a newbie can make killers losing their precious time so they escape and having a high MMR. Meanwhile a decent survivor gets bad RNG with bad teammates (i explained why he still can meet bad teammates even with MMR because it is not about being good its just about escaping or being dead) will have low MMR. For what? Because this game's mmr system cant be simple as escaping or sacrificed. MMR doesnt fit the games nature. There are many factors even luck before you escaped or not.

Basically you can just milk MMR by hiding from the killer and waiting for your teammates to die and escape from hatch. Will carry your MMR up to high places. Does that make you a good player? No. Even before MMR we were always saying your grade doesnt show if you are good player or not its just displays how many times you played the game on this month. So MMR or SBMM still doesnt show how "skilled" you are because the system doesnt care if you are good looper or enough alturistic. Grade system first was out for this purpose but it is not quite working the way it should. Because of other killers skills. Imagine you loop Wraith but when he is invisible, it doesnt give you points. There are many things needs to be changed from the game, if you make people happy about those kind of things, it is quite impossible without making big changes of the core game. If you do those kind of changes, game will be more different what we are playing now so

And if you just suggest something like "Balance the RNG" it is also impossible. Why do we have RNGs then if we gonna know whats gonna happen? The game will become boring if everytime we gonna have the same loops on every map. There some fixed ones but the others are randomly generating. Which sometimes are really broken to abuse. If you say "we always have jungle gyms, TnL walls, there will be nothing change" then you are probably are not a good player. Imagine like shack window leads to TnL and it leads to long wall jungle gym's window... You will understand what i mean. And when they remove RNG, everytime you play survivor and Killer those looping chains will feel same and everyone will become like a robots when you play enough times on that map. And trust me you will miss those broken loops even if you are a killer main. Because it will feel like you are doing the samethings on each map.

Dowsey said in the tweet that he didn't even care about the Twitch shirts. If he doesn't care why do you?