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Playing Fair vs Playing Unfun
I have attempted all day today to play fairly by doing as minimal camping, tunneling, slugging till it is absolutely necessary. Playing this way is averaging 0-1k but 7-8+ hooks a match.
In the current patch if you play fairly as killer winning is out of the question so this unfortunately causes killers to play in a very unfun way which we see on a daily basis.
The devs consider a 2k a draw yet I can just play Bubba, down 1, face camp them and get a 2nd with noed. The devs see this as a balanced match for data. If I can get 2k average with minimal effort why should I go for fair gameplay? It's not like the survivors play fairly, especially during this event, the use of Boil Over is insane and is becoming very quickly unfun to go against.
Playing fun punishes you, playing unfun rewards you, why is this the case? Should it be the case?
Comments
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Playing for hooks is more fun and lowers your MMR so you're also playing with people that play for fun.
Personally I see it as an absolute win.
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I notice that too, Its annoying what count as a win and what doesn't
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Just play Bubba with NOED in that case? Play smart, not hard. You might enjoy it once you give it a fair chance.
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This is the attitude I currently play with.
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Playing intentionally worse has no relation to any concept of fairness. Fairness is irrelevant. If it's intentionally in the game, it is meant to be an option. I have no clue why people act like fairness has any relevance in DBD. It is a multiplayer versus game. Using the tools literally meant to be used to try and do well is not unfair.
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It is unfair to pity them and treat them as lesser beings, give them the respect they deserve and tunnel them out of the game. Its only fair.
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There is no such thing as an unfair play style, excluding stuff that is against the game’s rules itself (cheating/exploiting unintended advantages/etc). If it’s intentionally in the game, it’s there because it’s meant to be used. That inherently makes it fair game to be used however a person sees fit (within the boundary of the rules).
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Just because its unfun doesnt mean its unfair as well. Or am I missing something?
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I mean if you play for fun you will end up with a lot of games were you get 2-3 hooks. I don't know about you guys but a 5min game with only 3 chases isn't something I consider fun, in fact it's extremely boring.
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Yeah, its one of the "perks" of the SBMM / MMR system. While I understand that noobstomping is bad and not much fun for most people and in the past several new players never got a foot on the ground because they were always destroyed by much more experienced players, I still feel an overbearing sadness in my soul that you can't play good and competent without inevitable getting thrown into abusive match after abusive match.
For the longest while I played mostly fair and by the survivors playbook, but still managed a lot of 3-4k matches. This trend went on till most of my matches became miserable dbd worldcup playoffs match after match, day after day, and it wore me down. Things got a bit better lately, but I don't know if the matchmaking system got tuned, or if really so many killer players left the game that I also get matched with a decend size of the mid-mmr gamers.
And the trend in my games is this: if I play fair, the match mostly ends in a 0-1k. If I tunnel at 2 gens, I can often eek out a second kill, but not always. Sometimes this doesn't work at all and I end up with 0k. If I get fed up after a streak of bad, humiliating matches and I throw decency to the wind and tunnel the first player out, the match as a 3v1 becomes much more enjoyable and manageable for me, but at the detriment of another player .. and the after game chat never fails to remind me of what a horrible person I am.
And here we stand, making tunneling out the first player ASAP the best strategy to have fun. Yikes. I hate this, but this is the sad reality. One post on the dbd subreddit illustrates this perfectly. I am not the artist, though
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My biggest problem with the whole playing fun debate is that it's always centered around how the killer plays. The killer is the one that needs to obviously and purposely misplay in order to uphold it.
Survivors don't have to do anything. IMO, because there isn't really anything they can do that feels as directed or unfun as being camped or tunneled.
Though, I do think that the devs should step in and do things to address those kinds of tactics... among other ideas and changes that effect both sides.
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This is a really good point. My playstyle gets disected and criticised ALL the time, and often harshly, but most survivors apparently can't see that their actions have reactions. Easiest is this: you t-bag me at every dropped pallet and macro-click your machinegun flashlight at me? Then I take this as an open invitation to tunnel you out of the game ASAP without any bad feelings.
Same if I get an early chase and quickly down the first survivor and think "wow, that was fast!", but then two gens pop because they brought 2 BNP and Commodius boxes. After this I usually don't hold back and play as sweaty and as dirty as I can muster, inevitably getting salt in the after-game chat for being a mean tunneler and camper.
The games in which everyone plays like in the ideal vision of the game are pretty rare, ie you hook someone, someones comes to the rescue while you are off to a distant gen. You get your first kill at 3 gens, second at 1 gen, then chase the last two between the gens till they either finish it off sneakily or you corner them. But this kind of games are the exeption, because survivors gen rush these days like mad. I can understand this to an extend: they are just using their survival tools to the best of their abilities, but in the process they become the victim of their own success.
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Playing fair gets you survivors that come writing toxic comments into your steam profile like... you are noob and bad killer etc etc not going to type the worst i got.
I even get them to my stream insulting me since i played fair and didnt kill them... well i got mad and i started playing unfun and i 4ked at 4 gens. Survivors you have to choose..do you want us to be nice killers who give everyone a chance in this game or do you want us to just go in sweat and kill you as fast as possible.
I'm pretty much done being nice since all i get is crap from survivors no matter how i play so i might as well play which gives me best results...so tunneling
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mmr doesn't exist, they want you to believe so... i already did an experiment that confirm that theory more than once...
back to the main topic when you play for fun it's always an almost granted defeat (you can do rapid chases and do some hooks, but this isn't sufficient itself to keep the pace of the genspeed) and survivors most of the times are entitled to mock you (tbags and flashlight clicks) until the timer of the egc will end despite you played fair (and they keep harassing in the endchat too). this imo is what stops certain players to play "fair" and start recurring to the unpleasant tactics that survivors despise (without mentioning the behavior that certain people have in game that trigger killers, like bodyblocking with bt when he's trying to chase the unhooker or finish a gen under your nose).
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I wish this was true... I've done nothing, but play fair for hooks and I get sweat squad after sweat squad.I've even gone AFK for more than a few matches... and still I keep getting paired with people whose whole intention is to make the matches as insufferable as possible.
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Literal face camping is usually bad strategy, it’s more time efficient to be more proactive. Aside from specific sorts of scenarios you’re better off looking for survivors than waiting for them to come to you at a hook.
Moving on from that, there’s nothing “unfair” about so called tunneling or slugging. There’s not even any consensus about what tunneling is, let alone why it’s somehow unsportsmanlike or rude. Obviously if you have a choice between downing an injured person over a healthy person you should down the injured one, and if you have a choice between hooking someone twice in a row versus two people once each you should hook the same person multiple times to get an elimination faster. It’s just common sense, and the only reason most people seem to complain about it after a game is sore losing, plain and simple.
I’m not saying there are some anti-social behaviors killers sometimes do. For example, I don’t do any of the following
- Hit people on hooks for no reason
- Let people bleed out for no reason other than to make them wait longer for another game
- Insult people in chat for playing poorly
- Bodyblock survivors so they can’t do anything for the whole game
Stuff like that is clearly just being rude. But playing the game normally and trying to down and stop survivors? That’s not “toxic” or “unfair”.
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I have -0- sympathy for killers who admit to tunneling a player from the start of match. You get everything you deserve IMO, because honestly, as the Survivor who has been tunneled like that before, it's the most unfun, stressful, terrible experience anywhere in video games. Feeling intentionally singled out among a pack of survivors, watching a killer literally ignore survivors who are right next to him, so he can tunnel you quickly out of match, is singlehandedly the worst thing about this game.
"Why are you tunneling me man, I didn't do anything the match just started"
Not to mention the time waste. You just wasted 15 minutes in queue + your offerings
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I have 0 sympathy for survivors when you try to play fair and all you get is insults in the end game because you didnt kill them.
You can't win in this game as a killer.
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I have 0 sympathy toward people who get mad at tunneling, I never cared about it and it's just fine.
In fact, I don't feel anything bad as long as killers won't take me hostage, because this game is meant to be like that and this is healthiest mindset to play survivor.
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Sounds like a very defeatist mind set, to be honest.
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I have 0 sympathy.
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I can safely assume you have never played a battle royale game
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And you are top MMR ? Because I'm not (I think because I still dunno how to know) but I'm not a beginner either and it's really rare that I do 2k or less, most of the time it's 3 or 4k, depend of the hatch and I don't camp or tunnel :/
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Play to win, whatever it takes to win, including camping and tunneling. Winning is fun. Survivors are not gonna thank you for playing fair and you will usually end up with the customary tbag and ez baby killer at end game chat.
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I dont disagree with you tbh but placing people who are more skilled but intentionally handicap themselves doesn't seem like good design to me. I'd rather the game be balanced in a way where the more fun playstyle was the stronger option.
Tunneling, camping, and slugging aren't really things I find fun doing and make me feel bad for ruining survivors games, so I do them less I know I've lost games because of it but I'm probably a more fun killer to play against so why should the game incentivize players who want to win to play like that?.
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Nah. I play Trapper atm at good MMR and i dont have that much of an issue playing without camping, tunneling and slugging, and being able to get my 2+ kills. I can say that 2/3 of my games this season are 2+ kills, tending to 3+ kills average on my wins, even though i maybe lose all gens in those games, but who cares? The games i struggle are just those against coordinated teams, and thats something i do not even bother with if they play better than me. Thats because i can reflect my gameplay and understand that ive done mistakes. And sometimes i get some cocky dudes and go out of my playstyle and try to get those out for sure, resulting in lower kills. Its still possible to play fair and square and get you wins on a fair amount of games.
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I’m currently playing Bubba, and I do my absolute best not to tunnel & face camp. Not even with SWF’s. I don’t like when killers do that to me. I tolerate it because it’s not against the rules, but it’s not a good feeling. I don’t want to be the cause of that feeling for others. Beating survivors with the “survivor rules” is waaaaay more rewarding than camping & tunneling. It makes you a much better killer too. No one can say ######### to you, and if they do- it just shows they’re salty for you beating them at “their own game.” The smart ones won’t say anything because they already recognize this, and will have to give you props in silence. You’ll even get the occasional genuine “gg wp.” The Icing on the cake? Give the last one the hatch if you’re feeling generous that match. You just prestiged to S Tier ass kicker, baby.
On another note, I’m fine not “winning” every game with 2k’s. Like someone alluded to above, who wants to keep raising their MMR only to square off against even harder opponents in the likes of sweaty SWF’s and hackers??? I take solace in my losses knowing that I’m comfortable in mid MMR, where most of my matches are against survivors of my skill set or lower.
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Playing for hooks also lowers your BP gain. I was noticing that when I stopped playing almost 2 mos ago. My average BP per match dropped by 6-8k. You were not getting as many hooks and you are not getting kills, thus significantly less BP.
The game is in a very bad state right now, primarily due to MMR, and the devs have no intention of fixing it. It's why so many of us long-time players have backed away. I can't stomach playing as a camper and tunneller. I face way too many SWF now and I don't play killer to be the one hunted by another player. These SWFs are changing. They are emboldened by bad perk changes/additions. If they get the scent you are trying to play fair, you will be bullied throughout the match.
I keep hanging around the forums hoping there will be some sign of change because I've long enjoyed this game and hate to just abandon it, but that is where we are now.
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This is the problem with current matchmaking system. It prioritises those survivor teams getting a match if they have been waiting a long time particularly if they been dodged by another killer. During peak times are the worst, I don't find fair matches at all as killer.
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This is just my opinion but I'm genuinely starting to believe you should dodge the first 2-3 lobbies as killer when you first log on.
My first couple of games each evening are always a very sweaty, obnoxious and toxic mess. Players are often skilled, have a lot of hours, outplay me like you wouldn't believe and all that is fine, but its often coupled with a high level of obnoxiousness and a lot of post game abuse which I just don't enjoy.
This is a pretty consistent game experience and when your first couple of games are like this you don't feel like playing anymore really and why would you.
I find dodging those first couple of "these people have been waiting a long time and you are getting the MMR shaft for their enjoyment" matchups makes for a better starting run of games. When I say better I don't mean wins I just mean less sweaty, closer in feel to my own MMR games.
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That way, you can only kill not so good survivors... and problem arise when you realize it.
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Unfair doesn't have to mean unfun though.
The game is asymmetric survival horror I want a killer I have to flee from or die, not one I have to loop around to waste time ala scooby doo.
(This is just my opinion, I've voiced it before and people react like I asked them to murder their grandma so I won't be responding further about it).
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That’s not true. Our favorite streamers prove daily they can do it against really good survivors in High MMR. They’re not going to win every game, nor beat certain teams, but their skill allows them to do it consistently.
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This is the attitude I currently play with.
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