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About that BT/ Corrupt discussion
BT base kit wouldn't be a bad idea if killers also get a base kit perk that helps to deal with gen speed. A lot of people ask for corrupt to be also base kit then. My only issue with corrupt is that it makes hex totems even weaker since some survivors will actively search for totems instead of doing gens. Other people think making pop base kit would do the trick... but i think killers really need a help in early game more than anything (in my opinion). What about having old ruin for two minutes (no more no less) at the start of the trial? It could do the trick; in my opinion.
Side note: saying that it doesn't do anything against good players is a bit hypocritical when 80% of the killers ran it before the rework.
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Old ruin wouldn’t do anything against good survivors
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They all say that but somehow 80% of the killers ran it anyway. That says much more about its utility than anyone's feelings about it.
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That was back when there was like 3 regression options. Pop was decent but an active perk you had to think about, and corrupt which was new so many didn’t want to use it.
New ruin has a stronger effect but is harder to keep active for long periods of time
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I'm just saying that killers need help with early game, and corrupt might be a bad idea to get as base kit because hex totems would suffer from it. That's why i talked about making old ruin base kit... but on the corrupt intervention model. Old ruin was not that ineffective against good players as the community made it out to be.
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I think it's far, far too limiting to think about it as "a free perk" for killers, when it's not just "a free perk" for survivors. Basekit BT (or something close to it, which is what I suspect they're actually planning) would exist to cover a flaw with the game's core design- specifically the fact that a hard tunnelled off hook survivor has absolutely zero control and is put in that situation through no fault or mistake of their own. BT is good because sometimes as killer it's the best bet to try and tunnel someone immediately off hook before they can react-- or hell, it's really easy to accidentally hit the guy who just got unhooked.
So, something in the same vein for killers would be something out of their control that improves a core flaw with the gameplay. I'd argue there genuinely isn't anything like that in the perk roster, but that doesn't mean there isn't a corresponding change that could be made, it'd just be kind of a sideways relation. I'd argue that the closest would be tweaking how aggressively generator repair speed buffs can stack- not making gens take longer themselves, but lowering how much survivors can speed them up.
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I don't think BT should be base-kit at all, atleast not how it is currently. It rewards unsafe unhooks and allows for bodyblocking. If it was a nerfed version, maybe I'd be ok with it
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There is two issues in dead by daylight: camping-tunneling/ gen speed. BT deals with camping-tunneling perfectly fine (even more if you understand that you can stack ds on top of it). Killers need something with gen speed... and the moment they are the weakest is the early game "when you can lose two to three gens in the first chase". And this is in the survivors control... not yours. Thats why i brought up the discussion to begin with. In both issues, the opponent side has too much power and it needs to be weaken.
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We can't keep making everything basekit until Dbd plays itself for you.
This is soo bad
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BT should be base kit because camping/ tunneling killers have too much power if survivors don't bring the right perks to deal with it. What happens too much in solo q. Did you ever play a custom match asking for the survivors for no BT/ no DS? It's a massacre.
You must not have that many hours in both sides then...
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Survivors can counter tunneling and camping without Perks. Bodyblock the tunneled Survivor and do gens if the Killer is camping. Killers have to tunnel and camp to deal with how efficient Survivors can be/how bad maps and spawn can be. BT would also give Survivors a 5th Perk slot for more second chance Perks
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Oh, I agree- I just think that looking for a perk to make basekit is too limiting, especially since gen speeds don't have a perk that'll do the job as neatly and concisely as BT does for tunnelling/camping.
Like I said, the better pick is to scale back how quickly generators can be done. Instead of just blocking them, or futzing with skill checks, just scale down some numbers on all the various perks, items, addons, etc that speed up generator speed or put a cap on how much you can stack together- simpler, cleaner, concise, and works for every killer.
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Survivors can't counter camping/ tunneling without perks. You should play the other side before asserting anything; thats basic survivor knowledge.
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I do play Survivor, SoloQ almost exclusively. It's 100% counterable, especially with the new CoH meta
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Okay, my bad, i misunderstood. But i don't think making gens take longer is the right way either... i mean thats why some freddy's add-ons got nerfed in the first place (forever freddy was so boring to go against).
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I have more than 2k hours, just a player with a different opinion than yours.
If we keep pampering the playerbase and make everything basic, the game will be too dull and braindead
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If the killer play around perks that don't exist. If he doesn't play around and they are not there, the team get smashed. Even as a killer i experienced it in some matches.
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I do think it's worth mentioning that Forever Freddy had a range of how effective (and therefore boring) it was depending on how many speed increases the survivors brought, but yes, I agree. I personally favour putting some kind of soft cap onto stacking different perks and items, so you can still shave time off a generator and don't have to hold M1 forever, but can't bang out generators in crazy short amounts of times. You'd also have to tweak what killers have available to slow gens down, but that's doable too. It's a time consuming endeavour but it's just juggling numbers, I doubt it'd be too difficult to do.
It would be tricky, but I do believe it's doable.
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Thats definitely a good idea that they should look into. I completely agree.
Fair enough.
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I would take inbuild deadlock over CI, as it makes it impossible to pop to gens at once. Just like bt makes it impossible to hook a surviver two times in a row.
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You don’t need to give killers an extra perk or perk slot if the Borrowed Time being base kit buff happened, just tweak the time it takes to complete gens up slightly. That parameter is just one number so it’s very easy to change from a programming standpoint, and it can be finetuned up or down in whatever small amounts are desired.
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That's also a good idea.
That is a possibility, but making gens take longer might make working on a gen too heavy gameplay wise... thats why i rather like ideas to make gen regress or make them blocked.
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To be clear, I did say “slightly” increase the time it takes to complete gens. Even an increase of a few seconds is probably sufficient and wouldn’t make matches last more than maybe a minute longer than they currently do.
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It was more that killers grasped at every straw in an attempt to slowdown gens.
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Well, yeah, they could do that too.
Apparently, people thought it to be better than pop and corrupt. So that is saying something maybe.
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I don't want any perks being basekit.
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And i'm tired of camping-tunneling/ gen speed... doesn't feel as the only one.
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gen speed isn't gonna be addressed ever the devs have made that perfectly clear.
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I don't care.
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that's fine but I'm just telling you.
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Nah, new ruin isn´t stronger than the old one. New ruin only works in the absence of survivors. Old ruin slowed the gen progress down while survivors worked on it. Even good survivors could miss a great skill check and convert it into a normal one.
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Camping killers ONLY get kills if the survivors allow it. And No I dont care if it's unfun for the one person on the hook. It's not fun for the killer either and just because something is unfun doesnt mean it needs to be changed. If that were true killer would need an entire overhaul because it hasnt been fun for me in years.
If you want killers to stop tunneling then they need reason to spread out the dmg. /looks at CoH
As for BT being basekit I'm mixed. I don't think it should be basekit because survivors are the power role. The perk is amazing so you should be required to sacrifice a slot to run it. As for my gameplay, whenever someone is unhooked right in front of me I automatically assume they have BT+DS. So I try to trade with the one who made the rescue.
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I haven't really thought much about this but what if we had something small like.
- 15 seconds all gens - Mini Corrupt
- 4 seconds - Mini BT
Both are pretty bad but better than nothing. I personally don't believe they will add either since they don't like adding things that doesn't make sense to new players.
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Because slowdown perks are so much weaker than the "counterparts" survivors have.
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New ruin gets more value if the killer keeps up pressure. It’s better on high mobility killers by a long shot. As for low mobility you could say either depending on map size.
Old ruin did destroy new survivors though
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Yeah, if Prove Thyself had another effect and we eliminated Toolbox gen speed repairs, the game would be much much better
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But BT is not being used as a anti tunnel perk most Survivors use it as a free bodyblock perk and being aggressive when they should be escaping and healing. Making it basekit in it's current state is a terrible idea and needs to be thought out more.
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Give killers a decent reason to not tunnel survs and you wouldnt need to have d.s,
I.E Buff kick and regression speed/damage, and so survs have to spend a minimum time to repair before it stops regression i.e 2-3 secs.
Killer's tunnel because there is more value in a dead survivor than in chasing a healthy one or kicking a gen.
You can't repair when you're on a hooked or dead.
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Why do you think one side deserves something just because the other side might get something? Yes, killers deserve balance, too, fixing one issue doesn't mean the other side should automatically be given a gift for no reason.
The specific reasoning behind this idea, in my opinion, is about balancing camping and tunneling while making the game fun. The game is undeniably not fun for a survivor that is the first downed then camped and tunneled out. Base kit BT might help resolve this issue if the survivor is skilled enough to take advantage and escape, but honestly I don't think it is enough. More needs to be done. Maybe campers should get a movement debuff when they trigger a BT mending state as well.
If BT is made base kit, I hope that the rework of the BT perk after that just gives BT regardless of how far away the killer is.
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So what will the Perk to take those spots... My only question
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Gen rush is also a flaw with the game. First gens pop in less the one minute, and pack of early pressure is also a flaw.
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I would sign that exchange. Make it happen.
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I think deadlock can be a good alternative maybe. That or corrupt must be basekit. Fair counterable not oppressive perks, that make killers can play the game without fear of losing 2 gens while going to them after spawn the oppsite side. Can have good chases and not constrict to camp, with basekit bt that will prevent that.
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Keeping up pressure is just another wording for tunneling someone out early. Killer can only chase 1 survivor at a time. Breaking the chase to go for a different gen means that the chased survivor goes back to the gen.
Unless it's a new survivor, who spends most of his time hiding and self caring in the corner of the map.
Btw. Everything destroys new players. Not just old ruin.
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Why do Survivors deserve a free unhook because the Killer decided to protect the Hook? Why is fun a good metric for balance when it's subjective. Does the Killer's fun not matter? Are Killers who want to win by playing strategically non-existant and the only camping and tunneling Killers are the ones who want to be annoying? Why nerf already counterable strategies?
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People have fun when they can counter things. Whether you take a killer or a survivor perspective, having situations where the player can't do anything "whether they are skilled or not" is not a good thing. Killers can't deal with gen speed efficiently without perks, that is exactly the same against camping-tunneling with survivors.
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I've already stated that tunneling and camping can be countered without Perks. Take hits and bodyblock for tunneling and do gens for camping
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No it can't. And until you prove it by real stats about 100 games with no BT/ no DS (and the killer knows it)... stop asserting things; cause that is no more than your opinion.
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and corrupt, which people didn't use because a streamer wasn't telling them it was the best perk ever yet.*
I still hate corrupt, I'd hate if it were base kit.
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Last game I needed to tunnel out a Nancy, because she was constantly sabotaging my hooks and when she was on Deathhook, she jumped into a locker and I was like "Pffff.... You ain't gonna get away, not after all the crap you pulled on me" and I stood there, looking at her locker for a solid 50s. Then I grabbed her out of it and wasn't hit by DS and killed her! Yay.
Turned out that she didn't have DS at all, but whatever, it was worth it. I still managed a 4K because they played strange and I got the most saltiest of angry comment on my steam profile afterwards. I wear it with honor.
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