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Give killers the option to break Boon totems

and I mean crush it into small pieces. Why 4 survivors have the ability to bless a totem infinitely beats me.

Comments

  • ThatOneDemoPlayer
    ThatOneDemoPlayer Member Posts: 5,623

    Breaking a Boon Totem would kill all of them except CoH, which is the main problem

  • Nathan13
    Nathan13 Member Posts: 6,983

    Than no one would run boon perks anymore, all they need is a short cooldown.

  • BubbaDredge
    BubbaDredge Member Posts: 816

    That would be counterplay, only survivors are allowed to do that.

  • Laluzi
    Laluzi Member Posts: 6,233

    I understand this, but at the same time, infinitely reblessable totems carry their own problems, because on several maps - really, this is true on any map if you place them smartly, but some are just ubiquitously powerful regardless of the state of the match - there are totem spots that are extremely cumbersome for the killer to reach, and putting a boon there guarantees either value from the boon or time loss for the killer (or both.) Think RPD library, Ironworks catwalks, Thompson House upstairs, Badham basement, etc - but also corners of the map, or areas where all the generators have been completed and there's no reason to patrol there. Basically, if (survivor time to reach totem)+14 < ((killer time to reach totem)+1)*(number of survivors remaining in the match), the survivors win that interaction, because while one survivor and the killer were wasting time with totems, the rest of the survivors were progressing the match.

    That's how we ended up in the situation where snuffing is rarely worth it - because if you go out of your way to snuff a totem, you're losing more time than the survivors spent placing it. Searching for totems is completely unrealistic on the killer end and snuffing is only a good idea if you run across the totem while not in a chase (because stopping to snuff then typically means the survivor can reach another loop, and that costs even more time.) Breaking totems would change the math because you get something more out of the deal than just a flat delay.

    This is especially a problem with Shadowstep on indoor maps - add in Iron Will and you get situations where you can't really chase survivors unless you snuff the totem, which loses the chase, but then someone puts the totem back up as soon as you leave, and rinse-repeat. It doesn't matter that you know where the problem totem is, because you can't snuff it without going back to square one. Your only hope at that point relies on luck or one of the survivors screwing up.

    I find it hard to believe that boons are functioning properly. Right now, the only way it seems balanced is when a boon's effect is so weak or inherently counterable that the killer can afford to just not care about snuffing it (Exponential) - and that's obviously flawed in its own way. Otherwise, you just sort of have to put up with the effect being there for most of the game, because the counterplay is a losing battle and survivors will waste less time than you will if they're smart about it. And let's not start with matches where 3-4 survivors are running CoH and you have zero ability to stop boons from existing all around the map at all times.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 9,795

    While I agree overall, the solution to that is not to completely abandon boons as a concept and turn them into some temporary annoyance that neither side sees any value in. The solution to that is what they should've done to begin with, which is overhaul totem spawns so that they're balanced around both hexes and boons.

    Also, there is one part you're missing, though it doesn't change the above- the best times to snuff a totem are if you encounter it out of a chase, and to snuff it after you've won the chase, since that buys you a little leeway. Even in scenarios like with Shadow Step and Iron Will, that is not impossible- and in situations where they aren't stacking all those benefits (no scratch marks, no sound, indoor map w/ LoS blockers, bad spot in general) it's very, very achievable. Otherwise, yes, there are very bad totem spots that really need to be adjusted so there are fewer of them, or maybe boons as a mechanic could be tweaked to have less verticality. Something like that.

    I don't mean to imply that the mechanic is working as intended, I'm specifically talking about how breaking boon totems is a self-evidently bad idea that people should stop bringing up.

  • Irisora
    Irisora Member Posts: 1,442

    Not the best choice yet a better one than the "nerf" the devs come with..

  • Taingaran
    Taingaran Member Posts: 289

    I think we need a long cooldown, about 90 seconds. A short cooldown won't make much of a difference.

  • legrosporc69
    legrosporc69 Applicant Posts: 250

    That was probably the intent but CoH remove an entire playstyle so killer complain a lot.

    See it like that survivor with a medkit have a finite amount of rescource so you can still hit them and let them go because maybe the next time you hit them they wont have any charge left. CoH remove that part so its like if every survivor have an infinite amount of medkit for only 14 sec of blessing and the killer can only remove it if the are not in chase and pass near them and it cant be on a elevation because the killer going to lose too much time.

    So in a way killer need to commit to all the chase they start if they hear a boon and if the survivor they chase is good its gg meanwhile the other survivor do gen.

    The problem is CoH they need to make that perk fair but if that perk is fair the perk is going to be bad compare to the other survivor perk. So the dev are in a bind if they nerf the boon mecanic the other boon will be awful but its going to make CoH fair. And if they nerf CoH to much to the point the perk is fair the perk wont be played because the other survivor perk are so much better. So whatever the dev do to the perk people wont be happy

  • Idontknowtbh
    Idontknowtbh Member Posts: 472

    Pentimento would be broken as a result.

    What if the killer could see the aura of the booner if they find the totem?

    Something like alert, but reversed.

  • UnknownKiller
    UnknownKiller Member Posts: 3,024

    Short cooldown the people would use in repairing gens.

  • Nathan13
    Nathan13 Member Posts: 6,983

    I think 60 seconds is enough, but i’d be fine with 90 too.

  • Laluzi
    Laluzi Member Posts: 6,233


    That's fair. I'm not as convinced as you are that breakable totems would be a death knell for the mechanic itself - the way I look at it, if you got value out of it (fast/accessible self-heals, the killer getting confused and losing a chase, a self-pickup, whatever else effects will exist in the future), it was worth bringing even if that totem spot becomes inaccessible afterwards, and there's still four other totems on the map you can try again with to get even more use out of the perk. There's multiple uses, but they're capped - think Inner Strength. All of that said, I do understand that some effects are more range-linked than others, and that for some boons, there's only a couple of spots on the map where placing them is worth it. Shadow Step is amazing in a main building, chain jungle gyms, or a two-floor map, but there is zero point in me placing it on one of those corner totems on Swamp, or next to a tree on MacMillan. That's not really a part of their design that can be 'fixed' other than keeping infinite uses in place - but that returns to the problem that where survivors want their totems to be, the killer doesn't, so someone's always losing in this interaction.

    I feel like fixing totem placements is an extremely complex issue because hexes are already fragile (many of the totems that are problematic for boons are some of the best spawns for hexes, for the same low-traffic reason - meanwhile, the boons that are easy to find and snuff are the ones killers despise because they sit right next to gens.) But if there's a way to do it - that might be ideal? It still doesn't fix the specific problem of CoH and perhaps future boons being good everywhere. Mostly I'm stuck on destroying totems because it's one of the only fixes I've heard that would deal with every problem case boons present, and of them, it's the most comprehensive. The others are to put lengthy cooldowns on placing a boon when the last one is destroyed, like a minute and a half, or to continually increase the time taken to bless a totem the more it's done. Neither of these will effectively deal with a whole team loaded up with boons, though.

    I will go back and snuff a totem after a chase, but you're not always going to down the survivor next to the boon. If the walk from the hook to the boon is 10 seconds, and the boon isn't in the direction I wanted to go next so I have an extra 6 seconds added onto reaching the gen I was headed towards, I'm still burning time. Otherwise, yes, that's one of the best times to deal with a boon.

  • SOULWARRIOR71K
    SOULWARRIOR71K Member Posts: 524

    I laugh every time someone pretends like blessing boons slows survivors down at all lol. The first boon up and 2 gens almost done by the time you even reach the first interaction. And if you take the time to snuff, it’s back up by the next time you hook someone. Gens have not gotten done any slower so we can stop pretending thanks.

  • WeenieDog
    WeenieDog Member Posts: 2,187
    edited February 2022

    "Overly altruistic"

    An overly altruistic perk would like autodidact because it does nothing for the person running the perk and is soley for your teammates. And it also has to be built up.

    COH is 14 seconds, in a game where most of the time, you'll be spawning near a totem anyway. 1 person puts 14 seconds into a totem and 3 get to heal for free.

    Mega value for barely a price.

    It's like the snarky "just apply pressure lol" response in perk form.

  • Majin151
    Majin151 Member Posts: 1,270

    To be fair the boons made certain killers unable to get more than a 3k without running a sweaty build perfect example being legion which made me sad as I loved legion because I found it hard but extremely satisfying getting a 4k with them but now it's just hard

  • Johnny_XMan
    Johnny_XMan Member Posts: 6,434

    I don't think they need to give killers the option to break it, just that if a totem if snuffed then that same survivor cannot bless that same totem for a period of time. Forcing them to look for another totem.

  • Crowman
    Crowman Member Posts: 10,208

    Boons are not stopping survivors from doing gens.

    What killer want is something in-game that isn't a perk that survivors would be required to do to help slow down gen speed, not survivors having optional perks that give them strong bonuses they can't do anything about.

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,266

    Blessed infinity is the problem because of Coh. Coh is the real problem, not Boon mechanic.

  • GoshJosh
    GoshJosh Member Posts: 4,992

    Way too much synergy with Pentimento, unless you make an exception that Pentimento only applies to survivor-cleansed totems. Plus it doesn’t really make sense: totems are supposed to be the “killer’s belongings” (see the yellow map add-on). I’d be fine with a reasonable cool down for the one who blessed the totem, before they can re-bless.