Many killers would quit over SWF
It's OUTRAGEOUS how bad of an experience this game can be for killer players without a lot of hours. The answer shouldn't be to sink every evening of your life into a game in order to find it balanced.
3-4 games in a row of groups communicating outside the games design leads to an infuriating experience.
Survivors love it, game sales go up.
DBD is brilliant in the unique gameplay; but take a peek at the difference in queues and just maybe, maybe, this reason is why ;)
tldr - hurry up and make a diverted queue with only 2-swf allowed.
Those who want to play vs Meta against veteran survivor friends well above Killer rank can sign up if they want the challenge.
Signed,
Another repetitive, heard it before complaint that developers are extremely aware of for past years but love the attention it gets in Twitch.
Comments
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SWF is an unsolvable problem. There is nothing that can be done to it directly that would not severely affect the playerbase or straight up kill the game.
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You don't have to dedicate every minute of your life to this game or any game. If the game becomes unfun for any reason, the logical choice is to put it down and let the dropping player count do the talking to the powers that be.
And SWF is a unsolvable problem as the man above me has pointed out. You cannot under any circumstances prevent friends from playing together. All you can do is decide to wait it out while they crawl toward a solution to even up solo players with SWF or just move on to another game.
Those are your choices like it or not.
Myself? I just choose to not play this game more than a handful of hours per month. It's just not worth making your main game anymore.
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I think there are enough players that it would not kill the game (to have a queue that limited SWF party). People tend to like options. There are plenty that would still queue up for a challenging experience.
A game I just finished as Slinger:
I'm Ash 1 (rarely reach past silver with my skill/playtime)
Opponents:
Red 1 prestige.
Red 3
Red 4
Gold 2.
Only won with extreme slugging and Nurses calling etc. Previous 3 = disaster of memes and obviously planned gen spread etc.
If i was a new killer, yah I'd toss this away unless I was sadistic :)
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That's kinda where I am at too. Like SWF has been insane for so long and your only answer was to spam Nurse/Blight which gets boring really quick. But now they got "tHe DaTA" so they can say they will do something about it (probably taking years in the process).
CoH just kinda murdered all my motivation to play seriously. Boil over was salt in the wound since literally everyone said it was broken in the PTB.
I still play a good amount but only the most low effort cheese builds. My days of having to sweat for kills against people who literally just have to hold M1 and hit spacebar/E are over.
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Respect your decision making process. The best part of the game is a deep love/hate due to the unique intensity of its design - but that is undone by a failure to scale the game into a broad range of player types.
Don't tell me that multiplayer games can't have more than 1 MODE.....most do. A casual mode is possible and those who think it will make a giant rift and the universe will fall apart are probably sitting too close to their monitors :)
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Well said friend.
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How precisely would it kill the game if there were 2 queues? I've seen some arguments but am not convinced. There is more than 1 type of player so I would imagine they would both be utilized
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Thanks :)
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We don't know the exact numbers, but last time they put out data on survs, like over two and a half years ago, about half of all survs were in at last a two-man SWF.
Since that time solo-queue has steadly become ever so delightful I have to believe the SWF numbers have increased greatly.
I also see no way of keeping the sweatlords of both roles out of any casual mode, and chaotic stomping taking place.
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Some people have friends. Sorry.
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Any killer that would quit over SWF has already done so. You're talking like this was something just added to the game.
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Where do you draw the line at sending surivvor teams into this SWF Q? Would you require it at 3 man premade? just 2 friends together? I don't have a dog in this race so I'm honestly asking out of pure curiousity.
I personally don't think it's a matter of dividing the playerbase. I think the reason it hasn't been considered is simple; how would you incentivize killers to play this "hard mode"?
I think the consensis is that for most killers is that playing at high level is exhausting and unfun. So how would you get people to play a mode that would be objectively more stressful?
This is why I tend to favor what the devs say they're trying to do - bring up solo players to the same level as the SWF in performance - then they can be free to buff the killers.
But until they get off their cans and finally do it, I'll keep my play time to a minimum. I still have faith it can be done - overall the game has been getting better even if it means they have to take a step or two back with the frequent mistakes they make.
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They already did, that's the reason why we have 90% survivor player ratio.
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I mean, the game is virtually meant to be played together with friends. I really don't get all the complaining about it, since inviting friends to play with you is a core mechanic of the game. Sure, sucks for the killer, since he doesn't get to invite his friends outside of custom games, but oh well.
Does it tip the balance in favor of the survivors? Certainly. We know SWF groups have a 15% higher win rate. Is every game a SWF game? No, not all of them. SWF teams are also quite vulnerable to overextending their alturism and get themselves killed in the process of trying to save their friend. If I suspect SWF lobbies and see flashlights, I bring lightborn. EZ.
I think the SWF groups are here to stay, so instead of whining about it, figure out some way of dealing with it and turning it against them. Alturism. It's always the altruism that gets people who play with each other. At least in my experience. Person A will run halfway across the map to attempt a flashlight save for person B, usually resulting in free hits on one or multiple people, and while they're busy trying to save their friend they're at the very least not doing generators. There's some other unsavory tactics that can be used, like slugging one of them for bait. I'm always fascinated by how hard some teams throw in order to save their friends. Occasionally I get the gens before friends team, and those are a lot harder to deal with, but oh well. You win some you lose some.
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The thing is look how long it takes them to FINALLY admit that SoloQ needs help. The perposed changes are a step in the right direction but NOTHING they do will make up for the power of Coms and we know that and THEY know that as well.
Then we come to the question of Buffing Killers......a joke within itself because well let's look at how they have "Balanced" Killers so far. What can they do that would bring Killers up to the standards of SWFs.....besides just making them stronger in all aspects but others would argue then that would make facing them not fun.....I agree that wouldn't be a good idea so then how do you do it......the game may not have that long for them to find out.
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Unfortunately if they ever added that youd never find ques as players would continue to lobby dodge until they found a queue with one of their friends against a killer that doesnt expect a swf. Players used to do that alot back in the day and it was frustrating
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is kinda the same for survivors who have to play with other solo survivors, the experience is misserable.
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I think 2 ques would work. They would have to incentive each side though. For example: killer chooses to vs a swf. They get bonus shards for example. The swf get no bonus as they already have an advantage.
On the other hand. If the killer chooses to que against solos the survivors all get bonus shards but the killer does not.
All killers now play against swf. I don't think the que would change that much. I'm a killer main I would take on swf every time to get bonus shards. I'm already doing it.
Now if I was trying a new killer and I wanted a more fair game I might consider queuing up against solos.
Just my 2 cents. No idea how they could do it. Just hope they do.
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Do YOU want people to have a bad time and quit because of abusive trends, or maybe hope for a solution to have games that are within your skill range (as 3-4 player swf totally destroys).
One can dream.
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I'm a 3600hr Nurse main.
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Removing it would do more damage as survivor is way more fun with friends.
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You cant do that. Because while its true many people play with "friends", a lot of then play with their actual real friends too.
Only thing I would do is show swf after the match is over to everyone. That will make killers see how many times swf was actually just good solo survivors
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Don't think it would be that hard to solve, give killers a handicap based upon "x" amount in the swf.
2 players 2% movement
3 players 3%
Or make gens slower to repair or regress faster based upon swf, Yeah might take some coding but to do nothing just makes it worse for solo survivors, as the game becomes balanced around swfs.
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Agreed heck I refuse to play solo survivor after 2 matches and swap to killer unless I have someone to duo with
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Right now, I pretty much hope after they buff Soloq, they maybe try to take a look a gen speed. Right now, we have seen that they know that is the problems for killers, so many killer release as of late have a slow down gens perk (Cenobite and the artists) in order to make the game slow for killer playing chase which is a good thing.
However, against SWF, they are very efficient, you need to play in a very un fun way to get 1 or 2 kill vs them. I predict that Killer in Ringu Chapter update will have another huge slow down gen perk as well.
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I don't think SWF is the real issue. It's certain perks and offerings that allow for bully squads to thrive that are the issue.
Take the boil over buff for example, it's absolutely brutal to face a SWF on a map with any drop spots if they all have this perk (thankfully the drop progress is being nerfed but I can still see it being an incredibly annoying perk if you don't have Iron Grasp on). With solo survivors, it's unlikely to make too much of a difference.
Map offerings should be scrapped entirely. Some maps are just too imbalanced for one side and being able to just choose to play that map is not good. At the very least they should make the offering to cancel maps a common rarity item so we can do it more often.
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Here we go again with the urban legend of DbD never been supposed to be played as SWF.
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I am still for a toggle option for killers.
You toggle 'match with SWF' in the lobby and then you have the chance to be matched with SWF groups, if you dont toggle it you dont.
Now you'd go 'well why would you do it' and the answer could be any myriad of things, giving killers special cosmetics for it, charms, a simple 2x BP bonus to doing it. There are tons of ways to reward killers for doing it, and it would let them know going in that they Might get a tryhard team. Hell I know some killer players who would relish the chance to at a challange. MEANWHILE killers who are just playing to do dailies, or want to do one or two killer matches every other month dont load into their first match in weeks to get a swf team that all have dead hard, borrowed time, and decisive strike.
ALTERNATLY
When you are in SWF and your SWF team all brings the SAME perk, those perks should have their effectivness reduces. significantly smaller skill check zones for decisive strike, increased exhaustion for dead hard, etc
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Ranks don't mean anything, how much longer will it take for people to understand
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I don't agree. There are at least two solutions that are feasible if not easily achievable.
It might be difficult, but if they added voice chat into the game then every match would be this way. Which means they could finally balance the game taking into account that the survivors will all be able to communicate. It is a common thing in games now, and I believe any company that has enough to buy all these licenses has enough to do this, but they are choosing not to. Other asymmetrical games are using it though so maybe that will force BHVR's hand.
Another option is to balance SBMM based on SWF. The fact that the SBMM doesn't accurately measure skill, and ignores those somewhat flawed measurements regularly in favor of matchmaking speed, makes that a nearly impossible request.
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It's the first time I see someone actually defending SWF. Are you being sarcastic or something? Maybe next time tell something positive about cheaters, about how removing cheats from the game will damage the playerbase because all the cheaters will be gone? It's the same kind of logic here.
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I am merely stating a fact, hence the upvotes.
DBD is built around a concept where the lack of information should be there most of the time. That is why we have perks that only give the players select amounts of info, such as Bond, Alert and Kindred.
Using things like Discord is a huge advantage, but also present in the majority of the playerbase.
There is nothing that can be done directly to SWF without damaging the playerbase or killing the game.
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Can you imagine how many people would quit the game if SWF was taken out?? Solo queue is such a nightmare I would switch to killer full time.
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And? I asked about other players...which doesn't have anything to do with your street cred does it?
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I know what you're saying, but sometimes examples with general ranks can still hold water. Unless you think I'm going to spend time calculating an MMR system, then this whole post topic isn't for you :)
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Why ?
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