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Just to clear things up
For real, stop with the salty tears.
Edit: Some people got stuck up on the word "toxic" as the meaning seems to be interpreted in different ways. When I hear someone is "toxic" in a video game, I personally don't interpreted it as someone who cheats or generally breaks the game rules. That to me is another league of it's own - the league where you can get banned/ punished for it. Toxic to me, refers to doing things in the game for the sole purpose of annoying or BMing another player. Like other people said, for some of the things listed, concept matters.
But to make things more clear, we can separate 'toxic' behavior into two different categories:
- Toxic depending on context.
For example, clicking in an attempt to get the killer's attention, when you are sure of your looping abilities is not toxic.
Clicking at the very edge of the exit gate when you are 100% out just to show the killer "See, I WON bro, I'm out get rekt" IS toxic.
Although it shouldn't be punishable, such players should be frowned upon by the community up to the point where it's an embarassment to do it, instead of ignoring it or encouraging it as a "part of the game". It's not a part of the game if it has no gameplay implication behind it. It's a part of the game if it can actually help you throughout the match, period.
2.Toxic in every context.
So context matters in some instances. In others, it's always toxic regardless. Like for example, there's absolutely zero reason to force survivors to wait 4 minutes to bleed out when you can hook them and end the game there IS toxic, because you are forcing 4 people to waste 4 minutes of their time (or DC) for no good reason whatsoever other than prolonging the game and frustrating them.
DCing ot killing yourself on first hook to deny the killer points or challenges after getting outplayed is toxic in every context as well. This is especially a bad thing to do, as you're not only screwing the killer, you are screwing your teammates as well and decreasing their chances to win the game drastically, simply because you couldn't help it but act like a 12 year old.
Hope that clears things up.
Comments
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This is toxic.
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I bought Feng's toxic brown hair cosmetic. Am I toxic now?
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With the taste of your lips I'm on a ride-
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But a lot of this is subjective. For example I don’t find tagging or shaking head toxic since there are a lot of contexts in how it is used
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I think tunneling can be split in two.
Tunneling because you have to: not toxic.
Tunneling because you want to: toxic.
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I think it should be obvious when it’s used in a toxic way (after a pallet stun, at exit gates) and when it’s used for being nice (Tbagging with another survivor, tbagging after a killer does something nice such as giving them hatch or farming)
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I think this just proves what I've been saying for the past few months, that the word toxic has lost meaning.
Left hand side, the only two things that are an issue there are 1. DC'ing and 2. Body Blocking (hostage taking) - both of those are against our game rules.
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Oh no not another us vs them thread.
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Wait this is us vs them?
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This list is missing one thing: Context. If I slap someone on hook while were farming, no one cares. If I teabag at a killer while were farming, no one cares.
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true! things can be annoying (tunneling, camping, bodyblocking, flashlights) without being quote unquote toxic
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Head shaking?
So does this make me toxic? Lmao
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This!!!
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I had a game where and ace dced two seconds in to the game loading in. Yet the trickster still camps and tunnels me off hook. At four gens too😭
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As many people said, context matters
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I’m gonna assume that’s the lyrics to some sort of song.
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Toxic by Britney Spears
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Ok
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I am glad to see that people agree!
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I think people confuse toxic with annoying/frustrating
The only actual toxic behavior is cheating/hacking, abusive end game messages, breaking rules, and exploiting glitches
Just because you don’t like being tunneled, or don’t like survivors clicking their flashlights at you, doesn’t mean they’re doing anything wrong lol
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I honestly wish more people understood this. I've had survivors accuse me of being toxic and start being toxic in game when I got my first hook at 1 or 2 gens and I want to secure a kill by tunneling because I won't otherwise.
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If you won't call the things on the left hand side toxic, would you at least call them being a jerk for no reason?
Because overall, I think this is a pretty good list for splitting up what's a valid reason to be upset with another player versus what's just gameplay - or what's done to upset people versus what's done to win a match.
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^ totally agree with this.
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Same.
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I think the original poster is defining “toxic” as “doing something solely for the purpose of annoying someone else”. Something can fall under that definition but not be technically bannable.
For instance, doing flashlight saves because it helps save a buddy makes sense. Holding down a flashlight macro to make a really loud irritating noise in the killer’s headphones is just being irritating for its own sake. Slugging someone at the end of the game because you don’t think you can reach a hook makes sense. Slugging them solely because you just want to make them wait 4 minutes before the game ends is just being petty.
Personally I don’t typically use the word “toxic” myself because it’s so vague. But there are definitely behaviors in game that people do strictly to irritate other people and not because they have any tactical rationale.
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If I load into a game and a Bubba with lethal pursuer finds and downs me in under a minute and face camps me until I die, this is not toxic or holding me hostage.
But if I kill myself on hook or DC when it's obvious I won't be able to play the game, that is toxic.
In every game ever, if you are preventing another player from participating in a match, then it's toxic behavior full stop.
Toxic behavior, by definition, is any unpleasant or insidious behavior. Obviously in a PvP game that need to bend a lot, but no one can find a good argument saying that being face camped isn't the most unpleasant experience possible in this game next to being slugged and bled out for four minutes.
Reiterating above. Camping or tunneling to secure a kill near the end of the game is one thing. Starting the game with face camping/tunneling is a completely different thing.
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I actually wouldn't. Take flashlight clicking - using it to get the killers attention, to chase you - because you know you're good at looping for example, that can be seen as gameplay. The killer has a choice to ignore it of course (which I usually do cos you tend to find these players don't often go sit on gens, so it's one less person to worry about completing the objective). Yes some players will find this frustrating - but in essence these things are pretty much part of the game.
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What you write is correct and what is written up there in the post.....there... I can only shake my head. The only thing that is toxic about DBD is the endgame chat. The rest has nothing to do with toxic and I stand by that. Too bad the word toxic has lost its meaning.
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convenient one to pick because of how innocuous it is. Not saying I agree with everything on the list but slugging an entire team(or whats left of a team) for 4 minutes and going afk is definitely being a jerk for no reason, especially since you yourself said DCing is toxic so are the people on the ground just supposed to light up a smoke and be like ah yes this is good gameplay. to contrast it with waiting at the gate for the killer to force you out, in that case the killer can at least do something to end it(end even in some cases nab a cheeky kill from an overly confident survivor). in the case of bleeding out your entire durations there's nothing you can do to end it.
4 -
Survivors waiting out the 2 minute egc to everyone being slugged for four minutes is a poor comparison.
The real equivalent is when survivors go full immersed and refuse to end the game. While technically it's possible for the killer to find them, if the survivors are remotely intelligent they can essentially make a game take forever.
This used to be extremely common before egc, with some survivors making a point to not leave for over an hour. While now it's less frequent since all four survivors need to be in on it, I've still found myself being that one survivor finishing gens because the other three are to busy having a tickle party on the other side of the map.
This also happens when you are down to 2 survivors and both are trying to wait out the other one.
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And I would consider that toxic...
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I'm not saying there's no nuance to it (for example, tbagging has tons of different meanings, and it's the context that turns it into a taunt), but the reason flashlight clicking works as an attention grabber at all is because it's considered provocative and annoying. Even if you have a plan, you are relying on the other player to be irritated by it - if they aren't, and they know what you're doing, then it doesn't work. Other examples include vault spamming, or if you're unlucky enough to be Pinhead, box spamming - the point is to create enough unpleasant and distracting audio feedback that the killer aggroes you just to make it stop.
Meanwhile, stuff like clicking at the gate, or after a pallet, or nonstop in a 4-man sabo squad against a struggling killer, is just a taunt. It serves no purpose other than to rub in a loss. So is taking the survivor to the hatch and then closing it in their face, or bleeding people out when you can hook them, or drawing out the endgame collapse to butt dance, or ragequitting in hopes of denying the killer a challenge, or standing over a slug spamming your powr, or sitting around smacking someone on hook.
Whether or not you want to call it toxic almost isn't the point. The point is that it's stuff that's done to be rude to the other players, usually without provocation. Focusing on the cases where there is an actual use for provocative behavior - sure, I've tbagged killers to try to draw them off the player they were tunneling. That doesn't change that there's a lot of stuff people do in this game for the express purpose of aggravating other players, and many people don't enjoy being subjected to that. I'm fairly objective; I can usually tell when a player is trying to do something with a purpose. I can also usually tell when a player is trying to mock me. There might be some occasional muddy ground between the two, but that doesn't make every case potentially purposeful, and generally speaking I encounter far more people who click/tbag to annoy than to draw aggro, or I get the sense they're doing both (and other facets of their behavior back it up - being obnoxious in chat, ragequitting when things don't go their way, et cetera.) If you removed gates from the equation, it'd be a lot hazier, but just pointing out that clicking has a use doesn't excuse clicking on the whole. To me, that's similar to how you can tunnel because you need someone out of the game, or you can tunnel someone because you don't want that player to have any fun.
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There is nothing toxic about playing to win from the outset.
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There’s killers who get so mad when someone clicks or teabags once. Like they take it too seriously.
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"If I pay hitmen to break the knees of the best opposing soccer players, it's just good strategy! We win every game and make way more money back than what we paid!"
Or some past dbd examples
"If I body block the hook so no one can unhook, that's just good strategy... Wow they removed body blocking hooks! I wonder why??"
"If I place Charlotte at the top of the stairs on the farmhouse and control Victor right next to her, i can body block the basement for a full two minutes, easy 100% kills! Wow they removed that too, i wonder why? It was such a great way to win games"
Doing everything you can to win doesn't exclude you from being a bad person in competition. Being the worst player possible to secure little victories does make you toxic.
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You're wrong. Mandy already posted on this thread drawing a CLEAR distinction between acceptable behavior and bodyblocking.
Contrary to attempts to brand tunneling negatively, you're not magically losing free agency. You have perks, teammates, and the very map at your disposal. Your second chase has the same exact potential as your first.
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For me personally, I don't view the word 'toxic' as a rule breaking term. It means you are ruining the experience, NOT breaking the rules. You are making the game less fun because you are trying to hurt someone else's feelings. If you are breaking the rules I view that as cheating. Cheating leads to reporting leads to banning. That is an entirely different thing.
There are only two things that can be done in a match that are toxic in my book. Survivors that won't leave and butt dance at the exit gate. Killers that hit hooked survivors repeatedly. Neither give you any advantage. Both are mean spirited and are only an attempt to make the other person feel bad. That is toxic. For PC players I would include salty endgame chat to this.
Does it hurt my feelings to encounter these toxic behaviors? No. On the contrary, I would say it makes me think less of you. Nothing is more disappointing than a sore winner.
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That's cool.
The point of my post is that I constantly see those two things compared, and they shouldn't be regardless of who says them.
Egc isn't comparable to 4man slugs. It's survivors refusing to do gens. It's just really odd/annoying that I always see egc brought up as the example comparison and it's just a really, really bad comparison.
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Pretty good list, but I disagree with you at flashlight clicking. Even though I don't do it, it's a distractionary method used to get heat on one teammate. Totally valid.
Exactly. If it's for no positive gameplay benefit, it's similar to taunting in sports. And sports penalize you for that.
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finally, someone i can agree with
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Not everything that's unhealthy for the game can be defined by a simple, narrow definition of "it's against the game rules" and nothing else.
Poor sportsmanship from people playing both roles does push people away from playing the game, both new players and old. I personally know people who've tried DVD and gave it up quickly, due to the VERY unfriendly new player experience, both the steep learning curve, the grind they'd face, and the VERY unpleasant interactions they had with their opponents in their brief experiences.
BHVR SHOULD care about that, but they either ignore it, or in subtle ways, encourage it through inaction. That's their decision, since only the all-important $ seems to be their focus (I could give a litany list of BHVR ignoring their player base and countless missteps made over the two years I've played, but we'd be here all day, and I'd probably get banned, so we won't travel down that road).
If your game's community eventually gets such a bad reputation that new players start drying up due to that reputation, then I assume BHVR would eventually address the behavior of their community (post-game chat harassment would be a start, but judging by the amount of stories we hear here, as well as what you can find on media platforms, that's something that's not addressed currently and likely won'tbe in the future).
But if history of other companies far reaching past just gaming ones are an indication, by that point, it'll be too late to stop the death spiral a company finds itself in. BHVR would be far from the first company to suffer that fate, and it wouldn't be the last. That would be a sad fate for those of us who enjoy DBD, but hubris is a dangerous thing when people making decisions can't recognize it in themselves.
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Perfectly said.
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I mostly agree with the OP's list, but I also think that reasonable people can disagree about what is and isn't toxic. It bums me out that these threads always turn into people arguing about what the exact correct definition of toxicity is as though everyone has to perfectly agree on that before they can try to make the game more friendly.
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To correct the OP, tunneling and camping are in fact toxic and should be recognized as unsportsmanlike.
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I don't believe anything that has to do with gameplay is toxic. Now a player holding someone for 2 hours in a corner that is toxic. And a player hacking that is toxic. Anything else related to gameplay is not toxic. That includes killer hitting on hook, and or tunneling at 5 gens, or even camping at 5 gens. And a survivor clicking, or spamming Ctrt is not toxic. Now if a person is breaking the chat rules that is toxic.
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And how would you classify those, legit just curious
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I mean, technically, camping and tunneling wasnt intended either, they were just possibilities that players figured out they could do.
As for the list of things that I would actually consider toxic behaviour:
- Using "cosmetic" mechanics in ways that have no in-game benefit. There are only 2 situations: Tbagging+clicking in the exit gate(especially while waiting as long as possible) or m1'ing survivors on hook consistently. Any other situation where nodding, tbagging or flashlight clicking is part of, cannot be toxic.
- endgame chat being pure toxicity
- harassing the player outside the game.
- Tunnelling a solo survivor early on in the game for no reason other than tunnelling them(I would consider it an unfair advantage at the moment, but a relatively recent future update should fix this issue)
- Refusing to hook survivors/refusing to finish gens without it being considered holding games hostage.
Those are already quite specific, and it can already be argued that 4 and 5 arent toxic and a specific playstyle, but since 4 is gonna be addressed and I wouldnt even be surprised if Killers would recieve a perk that can instantly finish a gen in exchange for something else(like, sacrifice 1 generator by your own volition to gain a certain effect or smth, maybe even basekit to finish 1 gen for permanent 5% haste or smth)
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It's very simple, actually. Here: Does it annoy me? Toxic. Am I a big enough person to ignore it? Totally fine.
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Eh. Personally, I feel like both camping and tunneling can be used in toxic ways, but more often than not, they're just mercenary. Tunneling especially. There are many situations where camping and/or tunneling are the smartest thing the killer can do and not doing them is giving up pressure, often at critical moments. Do I enjoy being subject to them, no, but I don't see any point in getting steamed over it, especially when it makes sense from the conditions of the match. If you get tunneled at 2 gens left, or camped in the endgame - a killer not doing those things is on a path to lose the match. You'll still get killers that camp for salt, or tunnel a specific player maliciously (I play with a TTV sometimes and jeez, the number of times killers have thrown the entire game just to make a statement), but it's far from the majority.
Toxic, in my eyes, means behaving for the purpose of upsetting someone. If you're doing something because you want to win the game, that's not toxic. It may be lacking in empathy, but there's an important difference between that and outright trying to ruin the game for other people.
If we're going to call things toxic just because they're unpleasant, then everything that boils down to 'making me lose' is potentially toxic.
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Tunneling because you have to tunnel means that there was nothing else the killer could have done on that situation. If they don't tunnel, they will lose the match.
That is fine and understandable.
Tunneling because you want to means that the killer could have done something different on that situation without compromising their path to victory, but decided to tunnel out of spite or toxicity.
That I don't think it is fair.
1
