What do you guys think about the three gen situation
I get the idea of making survs pay attention and punishing us for not being careful, but to me it seems like it just holds the game hostage for way longer than normal and is really boring. Survs are three genned and the killer is camping the gens, what to do? No one is going to do a gen, especially if it’s end game and someone’s died, or at least in solo que. It’s really hard to do a gen in solo que in this situation. On the killers side, why would they leave the gens knowing the survs can’t escape? It’s boring but valid to win. And if it’s a fat risk for a surv to try and do a gen (like if they’re mostly in dead zones, there’s not enough survs left in the lobby to pressure well, etc) why would they go for the gens? it’s also boring, but if you want to win, waiting for the killer to get bored first and leave the area is your only real option too. On high mobility killers such as billy, spirit, and so on, there’s not much counter to it after it happens besides this long stalemate. (Obviously the best counter is not getting three gen-ed in the first place, but this can be hard to do in solo que. Sometimes you have to just do whatever gen you can depending on where your teammate is looping, hooked, or whatever.)
I think three genning at solo que is def still a surv’s fault but the game being hostage is still really lame. I don’t see a point to try and risk my life so easily to do a gen that’s being camped, and I also see why a killer would camp it.
But what are y’all’s thoughts on it? I think in a swf it’s manageable because of call outs and being able to split up efficiently, but in solo que it really holds the game hostage from my pov.
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I dont think anything can be done.
It is true that it might result in the game taken hostage, either by the Survivors or the Killer. For the Survivors, if they just refuse to do Gens, for the Killer, if they refuse to progress the game (by chasing a Survivor). Both parties can hold the game hostage at this point.
But, 3 Gens happen and often enough it is because Survivors dont pay attention. And the Killer should not be at a disadvantage, just because of Hostage Situations.
IMO the only thing that can help is that BHVR eliminates Outliers and tries to do a distribution of Gens which is as equal as possible. "Funny" things like 4 or even 5 Gens on one side of Azarovs Resting Place and only 2/3 on the other side should not happen. But aside from those outliers, nothing really can or should be done IMO.
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Why shouldn't the killer capitalize on survivor's mistakes? Also, that's not holding the game hostage.
It's easy to break a 3 gen nowadays, it just requires the minimum amount of coordination and at least 2 survivors:
- set circle of healing in a very inconvenient place far from the gens.
- each survivor work on different gens, preferably the 2 farther apart.
- start running way early. Pallets close to the gen are more valuable and you want to preserve them, use others farther away even if you need to take a hit as you can heal easily.
Those 3 steps put the killer in a lose-lose situation. They need to down someone, but they can't afford to leave.
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As a killer, I usually don't try to defend it, it is tedious and boring, especially if they have a boon to recover or take off before I get there.
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I don't mind them. 3 Gen situations have been a part of the game for a very long time and I think it is perfectly reasonable that they existed.
I just miss that 3 Gen strategy that Old Doctor players did. Some of my most exhilarating trials involved them.
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Deja vu is always good for preventing that but if you 3 gen yourself nobody to blame but yourself
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One time I patrolled a 3 Gen; the 3 remaining Survivors DC'd, yet still ended up in end-game chat (How do they DO THAT!?).
They said the 3-Gen was my fault & I should have given up a generator. When I said 'How do I give you ONE gen? You could have split up and done all 3!' the reply was 'That's your problem.' 🙃
So, from what I got from that was:
- It's the Killer's duty to give up a 3-Gen.
- If Survivors abuse this to do more than 1 gen; that's the Killer's problem to fix. Without chasing them off gens, of course.
This is one of many reasons I stopped being a polite Killer. 😄
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I say hostage because the killer will refuse to chase and just stay by the gens, and survs won’t go and do said gens. I’m not saying killers shouldn’t do that, it makes sense, but as a response survivors won’t just walk up to the gens if they’re being camped. I posted bc today I was in solo and had a huntress stand near of all three gens with a hatchet out, and there were only three people left. We couldn’t communicate well to split up efficiently and it was difficult to get the gens passed a third. Two gens were behind her and one was right in front. We couldn’t flank because they were in open dead zones and it was easy for her to see everyone. No pallets on windows were near by.
Your points require both a specific perk, and the others require the killer leaving the area for a chase, even for just a few moments. My post is about when they literally do not leave. Yes survivors should split up and go on different gens but if you can’t heal very fast (no boon no medlar) you have to keep letting go to leave or you get downed by the gens. It’s not impossible, I’m not saying it is, it just takes a very long time and is a lot faster in a swf. No one wants to be in a dbd match tapping gens or camping them for an extra 15+ minutes.
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Nah it’s def survivors fault, my point is that because of it killers will capitalise on camping them which will cause survivors to not do gens since it’s an open risk. I’ve had so many games where the last gens were in dead zones by hills or weak walls, and the killer won’t chase anyone away from the gens. At that point it’s either throw yourself at the killer or just wait it out. I’ve gotten out of the situations against good killers only in a team where we slowly did the gens bit by bit. It took a really long time but we escaped. Against a great killer, and in solo que it’s just really boring and takes forever, if you can even get it done. This wasn’t a whining post about how survivors mess up but shouldn’t be punished, more so that once the mistake happens it’s hard to fix and leaves a stalemate. But yeah it definitely wasnt your fault homie and you shouldn’t have given them a free gen.
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If CoH is in play, 3 gens are almost always a loss for killer, even with just solos (assuming they're decent) UNLESS the killer has an instadown.
Regression speeds arent enough for survivors to take a hit, run away and heal, and come back on the 2 outermost gens in the cluster. even with only 3 people its still completely doable.
Without CoH? its more killer sided, but still doable. especially if survivors kinda silently designate a "healing zone" away from the gens to keep running to.
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If you don't like 3 genning, just get killed by killers.
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I've even had games where I could gold a 6 gen. Seriously I got a 4k once as Huntress on Thompson House because 6 of the 7 gens spawned on one side of the map.
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Since survivor's job is to do gens and killers is defending gens, it's survivors who are taking the game hostage... by refusing to do gens.
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By the rules, survivors are expected to go and try to repair regardless, even if it will get them killed. It is literally their fault they are in that situation, and only hiding while refusing to attempt to repair is breaking two game rules: Keeping the game hostage, and refusal to participate in normal gameplay. This has been explicitly stated by BHVR before. The killer is not keeping the game hostage. Defending the gens is part of their job. If the survivors do not attempt to repair even if it would get them killed, they can be reported with video evidence.
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Three gens is a necessary strategy for low mobility killers on larger maps or those with lots of pallets and vaultable objects. Without it, their only other recourse is hoping the match making gave them potatoes or trying to get a kill through tunneling and camping (which is far less fun for survivors in my opinion than a 3 gen).
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They pressed DC in the pause menu. They didn't lose connection or alt-f4
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That lets them go to the end game chat? Huh. Good to know.
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A three-gen is a situation that's simply part of the game. Smart killer players will force it if they need to (by not taking chases around an area of the map that they need to protect), and smart survivor players will do whatever they need to in order to prevent one from happening.
It's easier to keep from getting into a three-gen as a SWF, but even when I'm playing solo, I try to stay aware of where gens are being done. At the start of the match, if I see teammates working on a gen near my spawn point, I'll purposefully try to move to the other side of the map to work on a gen there. Once gens start to be completed, I'll try to work on a gen the furthest away from the gen that just popped -- if a killer isn't in a chase already, they'll often move in the direction of the gen that popped to find a new target, allowing the opportunity to work on a gen unhindered. It takes map awareness, but it can be done, even without a perk devoted to it.
Even a good three gen can be broken -- one of the longer games I played (against a streamer) was with a friend as a duo (and two random solos) against a Hag on Blood Lodge. We kept triggering traps and working on separate gens, getting a little progress on each before we finally got one done. The Hag had to finally commit to a chase, and three got out, even though they finally ended up with a kill (they had everyone on death hook at that point). It was a lengthy, but fun challenge -- and it's a part of the game that should stay.
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I'm too aggressive for that situation to last long for me survivor or killer side. As survivor I'll keep harassing a generator until either my team does the other 2 or I get taken out. For better or worse, I'm not worried about the outcome.
As killer I just chase someone. Even if they finish the gen they have to come rescue the poor sap. Game ain't over. Better hope you finish that gen before I finish that chase btw.
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A 3-gen can barely be described as a favorable situation for the killer, and it is far from unbeatable. Literally, split up and push the 2 of the 3 gens that are the furthest from each other, and you can overcome it easy. Don't overextend unless you know you can get the gen done, and you'll be fine. I've done it many times, but people still find 3 genning very difficult for some reason.
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I can't remember the last game I had a 3 gen with as killer. I care too much about chasing to try to defend one.
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if u play with friends you can do this alone experience has show me that is almost impossible.
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Almost always the survivors' fault and easy to play around
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Apparently survivors not doing gens is the killer taking the game hostage, so I would be careful as people have been suspended when video evidence was sent to them about survivors not doing their objective. Lulz.
Just chase one of them if they show themselves or afk to let them win to be safe.
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survivors should get crows if they don't touch a gen for a certain period of time. if you're not doing the objective you're not trying to progress the game or you want to be chased. actions like healing or totems would ideally be exempt from that.
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A three gen situation is the survivors fault. I had a game like that against a Huntress. I did my best to do the last one. I managed to pop it somehow and the killer found me. My teammate escaped and t bagged the killer, even if she didn't do anything. If it is so boring let the killer, kill you and go on your next trial.
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Only partially correct. Both sides are expected to progress the game. If the Killer is making zero effort to down people and is only pushing Survivors away from gens, they can very much be reported. I'd need to see if I can find the posts in question, but not only have I seen mods confirm this, but I've seen at least one thread of someone actively complaining that they got banned for playing "get them kids off mah lawn" with the gens and not trying to actually down Survivors.
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You won’t find that post because it never happened. No killer would ever be banned for defending the gens.
If survivors refuse to actually try and do the gens that’s their fault, not the killer’s. Killers aren’t holding the game hostage if the survivors are too afraid of being downed to do gens.
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I have seen this post with my own eyes. I can't tell you for sure if the poster was being truthful or witholding info or anything, but I can promise you 100% that this thread existed.
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I can guarantee if a poster said they were banned because they were guarding gens they’re lying.
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See, I don't believe you actually can. The best you can do is not believe it.
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No, it's not. I play survivor as SQ almost exclusively and it just takes 1 other survivor who knows what he's doing to break a 3 gen. Pointing them out to a gen and going to another is usually enough for them to get the idea.
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I also wouldn’t believe a poster who said they’re a rich exiled oligarch who just needs to use my bank account to get their money out of their country. There’s zero reason to believe someone was banned for defending gens, why would I have to have specific proof they’re lying?
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I have seen confirmation that you indeed can get banned for it.
Both sides are responsible to advance the gamestate. The Survivors by at least trying to complete Gens and the Killer by at least trying to kill Survivors. If a Killer is just standing in their 3-Gen, chasing away Survivors who try to do Gens and not following them, the game will never end and at this point, the Killer is holding the game hostage.
I know this forum is just WONDERFUL and Killers will NEVER be the evil guys and all Killer players are just fluffy and sadly also victims of those evil Survivors (I heard playing Survivor is the same like eating Puppies)... But Killers who dont make any effort to progress the game are also holding it hostage.
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Go ahead and post a link from a dev confirming a killer got banned for guarding gens. I’ll wait.
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I think the existence of 3-gen scenarios is fine, generally speaking. It's not a secret that holding M1 and occasionally hitting Space on generators isn't exactly the most thrilling part of the game, so I think having a level of strategy be required to make sure you're not putting yourself in a 3-gen scenario if you can possibly avoid it is totally legitimate.
It's also a catchup mechanic for a killer who might have been doing poorly- not a particularly crazy one since it's far from impossible to win even in the worst 3-gens you can imagine, but it helps provide a little more push-and-pull for the flow of a trial.
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Here:
"The three gen strat on its own is not bannable, it only becomes an issue when it's being used to grief instead of win."
You can get punished for hostage holding if you are just trying to hold the gens without making any effort to down Survivors.
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That is not at all what Peanits is saying. The situation in that post is a Doctor who isn’t even injuring survivors, they’re just shocking them over and over into Madness so they’re unable to work on gens at all. And it’s not even a real scenario in the first place, nobody got banned over it.
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I explictly highlighted the part that said that 3-genning is not bannable unless you are not using it to try to win the game. That is a general stance, not one that specifically necessitates the Doctor.
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And you also posted what I said
Go ahead and post a link from a dev confirming a killer got banned for guarding gens. I’ll wait.
Again, nobody got banned for guarding gens.
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If I actually find the post that I was referring to (something that I freely admit might not be possible if the mods decided to delete the thread due to it discussing bans), will you admit that you were wrong or will you accuse the post of lying?
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It depends, if we're 3 Survivors and we don't go down so fast, we can finish a gen with no problem if there is no slow down perk(s).
If we had a really bad start and we are 2 survivors, it's pointless to try. I'm giving up on the game simply by running to the Killer to sacrifice me and move on to the next game.
It's boring to hide and wait.
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Which post are you talking about? If you’re talking about a post from someone saying “I got banned because I guarded a 3 gen” then yeah, that person is lying. If you’re talking about a post from a dev saying “we ban killers for guarding gens” then go ahead and find that post, because the one you linked from Peanits doesn’t say that.
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It very much says in the part I quoted that you can get punished for guarding gens if you are not trying to down anyone.
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I found the same post which already got posted by @TAG .
And the situation would not be different if the Killer would just keep injuring the Survivors. The Survivors would have to retreat to heal and can then try to do Gens again, just for them to be chased away.
The Killer is not planning to progress the game. At some point, if the Survivors are trying to do Gens, the Killer has to commit to a Chase, even if this might mean that the Survivors complete the last Gen. But if the Killer decides to only protect the Gens, the game will never end. And you cannot really say "The Killer is just defending Gens", otherwise you would also have to say "The Survivor is just surviving", if two Survivors are hiding without any intention to do Gens.
Otherwise, can you explain me, what the difference is between Survivors not trying to complete Gens and a Killer not trying to kill Survivors? Both sides are not trying to win at this point (holding a 3 Gen until Christmas is also not winning...).
But, maybe @MandyTalk can give us some insight here - would a Killer hold the game hostage in this situation? Tagging you because I feel the discussion would go endless if there is no clarification.
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No, it’s specifically talking about a situation involving a Doctor using Madness to make it impossible for survivors to work on gens at all and going out of their way to avoid injuring when possible.
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The part that I highlighted does not say the word "Doctor" at all. The quote as a whole did refer to the Doctor because that was the topic at hand, but that portion of the quote referred to 3-gens in general.
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Holding a 3 gen until a survivor makes a mistake you can capitalize on is winning. Why is it the killer’s responsibility to intentionally be baited into a losing chase when eventually the survivors might slip up and get downed out of position? Just because a strategy takes longer than normal to work doesn’t imply it’s not a rational strategy or bannable.
Survivors on the other hand have a different winning strategy if a killer is playing zone defense. Split up and work on gens separately. Again, it takes longer than normal, but if they do that then the killer is on the backfoot if the survivors can manage to avoid getting downed in the process. If survivors aren’t even trying to do that though and are just hiding then that’s on them.
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No, it refers to using a 3-gen in a hypothetical situation like the Doctor that was in the preceding statement where the killer is avoiding even trying to injure people at all and is preventing the gens from being completed in non-damaging ways. You can’t just take that one sentence out of the context of the rest of it.
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I mean if both of survivors/killers can stop trying to win and end the game, where is the "hostage" even.
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Where does it say that in the part that I highlighted?
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