With Pain Resonance and DMS becoming popular, it's time for Bhvr to fix the elephant in the room
Once you realize the killer has Pain Resonance and DMS the counter is to let go of the gen right before they hook a survivor so you don't scream and get the gen locked for 45 seconds. However, there's no safe way to let go of a gen. If you receive a skill check AFTER you have already let go of the gen you are unable to complete that skill check, you automatically fail it, which adds to the 15% lost due to PR.
It's way past due for Bhvr to fix this "feature" and allow survivors to complete a skill check. This feature is ALREADY IN THE GAME because of Overcharge. Why is it not universal? Why can you auto fail a SKILL check because one pops up AFTER you stop repairing? It makes no ######### sense and it never has and Bhvr needs to fix it
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It's the only way survivors ever fail skill checks, so I can't say I mind.
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I'm pretty sure if that was actually the case then the skill checks should be made harder.. not have you auto fail lol
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I would support this change.
Also, a QoL update to Dead Man's Switch. Have it block the gen only if all Survivors get off of it. Currently, if two people are repairing and one lets go, it's blocked. That's dumb.
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Yes, let's remove the only way for Survivors to fail a skillcheck since 99% of them never miss skillchecks when on a gen, and the only way for a Killer to get regression outside of his 50000000 year kick animation that gets reversed in a 0.0060 second gentap.
Never mind that such a change would also remove the explosion from the Killer chasing Survivors off gens, too. May as well just make it so the only regression is the 3 year long kicking animation, while Survivors can gen-tap in less than a sixtieith of a second. Not like literally every other aspect of the game holds Survivor's hands already.
In fact; why not just remove regression all together? The Killer now has a fixed time to kill everyone because Survivors can never fail skillchecks, and kicking is too long and useless to do. 🙃
I mean, it takes 2 perks to do this combo; half a Killer's perk loadout. But it's clearly unfair that Survivors might sometimes have a gen explode. That's just so unintended and unfair. Hold Survivor hands harder, please!
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If 99% of Survivors don't miss skill checks, then that's an issue with skill checks. This is a QoL fix. You should at least have the opportunity to hit the skill check while running. That doesn't mean you automatically get to hit it, it's far more difficult to hit one whilst running.
I think your bias is blinding you to something that would be a good QoL change.
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No. Survivors are meant to be punished for running off a gen. The only abomination that goes against this is that stupid Overcharge, which lets Survivors hit it while running away. Because whoever made it has never played Killer.
If you removed the surprise skillchecks with your 'QoL' hand holding, then gens would NEVER explode. I can't count the number of times I got regression because I chased a Survivor off a gen, and it happened to explode right as they left.
I don't care if you hide behind 'Qol'; this is a DIRECT buff to Survivors and a nerf to Killers, as the only regression would come from kicking. And kicking is stupidly useless to do because it takes 600% longer to kick than it does for Survivors to hump a gen for 1/60th of a second.
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Then, again, your issue is with the skill checks.
Besides, that isn't even a skill check. It's a punishment for leaving the gen, there's no opportunity to even hit it. Are you saying that Survivors should just hold M1 as you approach and shouldn't even bother getting off the gen? That's a hilariously bad take if so.
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It's a punishment for leaving the gen, there's no opportunity to even hit it.
That's, literally, what I'm saying it is. I'm pretty sure it even has a higher chance of triggering if the Survivor holds shift while leaving a gen.
Are you saying that Survivors should just hold M1 as you approach and shouldn't even bother getting off the gen?
No. I'm saying it's a punishment for staying on the gen for too long, because now your HASTILY RUNNING AWAY (IE: Holding shift/sprint). Whereas it will happen less if a Survivor leaves 1. Right after a skillcheck or 2. While holding crouch (or NOT holding sprint)
Another way of looking at it is that it's a Killer's REWARD for pressuring a Survivor off gens.
But all Survivors see is 'Gen pops. This is bad for Survivors so it's CLEARLY unintended!' because the entire game should hold their hand and never work against them.
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This is one of the reasons many did not want to see this iteration of Dead Man's Switch go live. I physically can't stay on the gen when DMS is combo'd with Pain Resonance. It's not fun to have a gen blow in your face and then be locked for that amount of time. It feels like you're repairing the same generator for an eternity and getting nowhere. This is not where the meta should be going.
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I'm not even sure I have to argue this point, you're kinda doing it for me.
I'm not sure if I've ever heard anyone say that Survivors should be punished for leaving the gen as a Killer approaches.
I also don't think I can convince you and I think that everyone else can see the reasonable argument, so I think I'm done responding, unless something else piques my interest.
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It's literally fine. Literally let go of the gen before the hook, doesnt matter if you fail a skill check. Even so you should let go of the gen the moment you lose the aura of the downed person.
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I'm not sure if I've ever heard anyone say that Survivors should be punished for leaving the gen as a Killer approaches.
Because Survivors think they should have everything work in their favor.
If you think about it, instead of brushing me off, you'd understand what I mean; It's punishing Survivors who don't leave early. The ones who have to SPRINT AWAY because the Killer is 10 meters away.
But, again, you think it's a 'QoL' thing because clearly nothing in this game should favor Killers in any way, shape, or form. Anything that does is CLEARLY an oversight and needs to be fixed.
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This could be finally the time to rework SKILL CHECK!
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Hmm yes nothing like my skill on repairing getting getting checked as I leave the broken generator and start running away :)
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I'd support that.
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Call me a Survivor main while you're at it.
If you take a look at my post history, you'd discover I've played an unholy amount of Killer. In fact, I commented on something talking about CoH just today.
Unlike others, I do not let the fact that I played Killer dictate my ideas on what makes sense and what does not. If something is bad, it's bad, regardless of what tribe you belong to.
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It's base Gen Regression
Having base Gen Regression low only equates to Killers having multiple Slowdown perks (regression perks)
Also having said that I also think that Killer activated Gen Blocking Perks should regress gens at base Gen Regression now (.25)
And Repressed Alliance wouldn't Regress Gens at all (like normal)
And Ruin would have to be changed again (IDK what to but it certainly won't be upping Regression by 200%
I know that will get some negative comments but just think of playing a match without Ruin and Pop or PR and Pop (I know that DMS will still be used but at a lesser Regression then Base)
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You should see some of the teammates I get, bro.
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The fact that overcharge is still a skillcheck2go is way more baffling to me.
It is a killerperk that should make gen tapping a detriment but instead only gives a slightly harder skillcheck and the survivor can even continue the chase with it.
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Jesus, bit dramatic.
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I don't get why some people are arguing that survivors should get punished for something they have no control over. This seems like a common thing in the game. Getting farmed off hook. Getting face camped.
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They DO have control though, just hard.
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Wait, hold up a sec- how would leaving the gen early solve this problem? The issue is that if you let go when a skillcheck spawns, it fails, no matter whether the killer is ten metres away or on the other side of the map. You could do everything right and leave the gen early instead of greeding it with the killer in your face, and what's being discussed will still happen because the core issue is that there is no truly safe time to let go of a generator save for the millisecond after you hit a skillcheck, and that's not a reliably predictable event.
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You don't. You cannot humanly react in time if the skill check spawns right as you let go.
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At the very least BHVR should look into it and decide whether it is intended or not. Had an Ace going to my Gen, basically just tapping it and letting go of it for an Unhook, and it got blocked with me on it.
I think this is more of an oversight which never got noticed since nobody used DMS before. But if it is intended, BHVR should at least clarify it.
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This is one of the things I just hate the most in this game. And they really should change it, auto-failed Skill Checks should not be a thing. And it does not make sense either, with Overcharge you are allowed to do the Skill Check while running away, regular Skill Checks might just pop up when you let go off a Gen and it auto-explodes. And those happen A LOT.
Just yesterday, spawned on a Map, saw a Myers, wanted to let go of a Gen to hide, it blows up. Yeah, nice. So much I can do about that...
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Something like just leave AFTER a skill check ends.
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I'm still of the opinion that the core gameplay of generators needs to be changed. Currently they're both easy and boring to do, and with them being so easy to do they can be completed very quickly which means killers run the aforementioned perks to have a chance.
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The whole “overcharge to go” thing is something I still find stupid tbh. But if you’re going to change skill checks in general, just make it so you’re not allowed to let go of the gen until the skill check is resolved, unless the killer grabs you in which case you auto-miss it.
I think a simpler fix to the PR/DMS thing is to just make screaming not count as letting go. As stated this already has a counter but it’s not something a lot of people are picking up on, at least from what I’ve seen. I don’t think the “one survivor letting go blocks it for everyone” thing is a problem tbh.
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Yeah, I think letting Survivors do the Skill Check after letting go seems more than reasonable. It's pretty unfair to have RNG randomly line up with you letting go and punish you for it.
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In the total time I've played killer I've never seen the failing skillchecks when getting off of a gen "feature" as a necessary thing. It's just bad game design, and if you have to rely on bad game design to be any good at killer.. you're probably not very good at playing killer.
It needs to be changed, but I'm not sure the best way to go about it. Making it similar to overcharge skillchecks would fix it, but it'd look a bit silly.
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I get where you are coming from, however I believe this is a also a nice way to make letting go off a gen abit risky, I think it isnt that bad.
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Honestly, would it be a bad thing if letting go of a generator during a regular skillcheck simply cancelled that skillcheck?
Gut instinct may be to say that's abusable, but I don't really think it would be. Good skillchecks are not hard to hit, and if you're not doing any skillchecks at all you're missing out on the BP gain and potential extra progression from hitting the Great.
Obviously special/harder skillchecks shouldn't have that quality, even the one in the game that currently does, but just regular ones it seems a bit unnecessary.
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Really? Because you're arguing that doing gens should be totally relieved of any risk whatsoever. That's boring and counterintuitive.
There needs to be a risk of doing gens in the killers face, or doing them up until the last second of PR procing.
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But normally that's not even possible....I let go of a Gen and use Sprint Burst and run off I'm a good distance away from the Gen when the skill check hits so how is it fair that I get to complete the skill check and not even close to the Gen....that would allow survivors to have more hand holding and allowing them to make more mistakes without consequences tied to them.
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Yes it does, bad players gonna do extremely strange action like repeatedly spamming M1 to cancel all the skill checks.
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I don’t really see this as a QoL change but more so intended mechanics.
If you don’t hit a skill check, the gen will explode.
If let go during a skill check, the gen will explode because you’re not hitting the skill check.
So if you let go to counter DMS and happen to get a skill check at the same time, the gen will explode.
Seems to me that’s how it’s designed to work.
To change this design, we’d first have to redesign skill checks in general. Which is fine by me, but that would have to come first.
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Right, but what would they actually gain from that? They'd be denying themselves BP, they'd be denying themselves the possible extra progression from Great skill checks, and they gain... the ability to avoid doing something that is trivially easy with a tiny amount of practice?
They'd still be making things worse for themselves by doing that, and it would avoid the problem being discussed, so I don't see any reason not to do it.
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a good trade off for a massive buff and synergy. but you'll still have people begging devs not to do this
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No.
Survivors do not and should not have telekinesis.
Think about what exactly a skill check while repairing a gen is. Something's gone wrong and you need to fix it right now or it'll cause a lot more problems very quickly. If something goes wrong and then you take your hands off the gen... obviously you can't fix it anymore, so the more problems happen. This makes complete and total logical sense.
Now, can this feature be annoying? Sure, but let's restructure this a bit. Something made you let go of the gen and that something is probably something the killer did. Don't think of it as a punishment for getting off a gen, think of it as a reward for the Killer for putting pressure on you.
In fact, Survivors should 100% lose their telekinesis when dealing with Overcharge skill checks. Logically speaking, Overcharge should be the perk you turn to if you're sick and tired of Survivors being able to tap gens to instantly stop regression. Besides that, that perk needs a buff anyway... and that'd be a good one for it to get since it makes no logical sense that Survivors can take the skill check with them.
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I've read this conversation twice now.
It's my opinion that AK's not saying that survivors should be punished for leaving gens. He's saying they should be for rushing away. The same way survivors are currently "punished" for fast vaulting, jumping into a closet while sprinting, etc.
The game has always made a distinction between slow and considered moves (like waiting for and hitting a skill check before moving off the gen for the rescue) over rushed, unplanned actions (sprinting away from the gen because you just saw the killer). Why should that change now? And how would such a change honestly be a "QOL change" and not a flat out buff?
Then too, there is the mechanic of the "gen tap" where survivors will progress bit by bit, instead of actually committing to the repair, in order to avoid the skill checks. Used to happen a ton, until the changes to skill checks made that no longer viable. It seems you want to go back to those days, why?
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I think ruin shouldn't regress a blocked generator. That's the REAL problem in my opinion. DMS shouldn't give you a full gen regression.
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They may or may not be. Just like afk pig isn't really putting themselves in a position to win, just like running to the top of the map to keep from being hooked wasn't getting gens done. I could list more examples, but my point is we are far from a place where players only try to win.
Also yes, the gen tapping to get around skill checks was something that used to occur, so I don't doubt it would return.
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My point is more that it gives no advantage and doesn't really have any downsides, so why not? Leaving a generator and having the skill check spawn at the same time just feels bad, and the hypothetical of people avoiding skill checks only counts as a flaw if we aren't accepting the reality that getting a skill check is a good thing once you've played more than a handful of games. You want to hit skill checks, there are a ton of mechanics and incentives surrounding it.
Gen tapping to avoid skill checks would return, but... who cares? What would the benefit for that survivor be, and what would the downside for the killer/other survivors be?
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1. It makes it so that my survivor matches are just visually more annoying watching my teammates t bag gens.
2. It makes them longer as it takes longer to repair.
3. It screws over killers who rely on the information based gen perks.
4. It is the literal definition of exploit, so why should the fix to it be removed?
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1: Yeah, fair enough.
2: ...Is that a bad thing? Gens fly past very quickly right now, and anyone who actually cares about gen speed isn't going to do it since they want skill checks so I'm not convinced it actually would end up that way.
3: This one is a fair point and I agree, but it still assumes that a majority of survivors will gen tap when it does nothing for them. It used to because it circumvented old Ruin, but that isn't the case anymore.
4: Maybe this is me being pedantic but I'm pretty sure the literal definition of exploit requires that it give some kind of advantage, not just be an unintended effect. To borrow from another game, in Borderlands 2 you can do an amusing camera trick with certain shotguns where it visually spins around if you aim while looking straight up- it's unintended and it's even a bug, but because it does literally nothing for you and is just amusing to look at, I don't see anyone calling it an exploit.
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Except it doesn't actually distinguish between "rushed" leaving a gen and slow leaving a gen.
It's totally random.
If you defend that, then why not just make for every second a Survivor does a gen in a Killer's TR, they have an X percentage chance of having the gen explode for 10% regression? That's literally the situation we are in.
If it was somehow guaranteed that if you leave the gen too quickly (how would that even work) it would blow up, then that's one thing. You have prior knowledge and are able to prepare to counter it, but that's NOT how it works.
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Alternatively, why should a completely random interaction punish you for something that isn't your fault?
Also, not sure if the realism argument is one you want to pursue.
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Sure if the gen is slowed by the game itself that's one thing. If it's slowed because my teammates are asses, that's a different Matter entirely.
How is "denying a chance at the killer getting a notification on which gen I'm on" not an advantage?
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There's not any risk anyways. That's an issue with game design.
Skill checks auto-failing because the Survivor made an objectively smart play is bad. It's totally random and cannot be relied upon nor predicted.
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But the only way the killer would get a notification for which gen you're on is if you miss a skill check, and who is actually missing skill checks so regularly that gen tapping is a viable strategy? You lose so much more than that miniscule potential advantage that it really seems kind of silly to bring it up in this context.
Skill checks aren't hard, I thought pretty much everyone agreed with that. Unless I'm missing something regarding your argument here?
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