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2 downs (w Corrupt and Ruin up) and still lost a gen 50 seconds in.......
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Aight, cheers.
From anecdotal evidence from the forums apparently EU random are some of the worst imaginable lol
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I mean, it could totally be anecdotal evidence, because I will not mention or even remember good teammates for the most part. But especially yesterday it was horrible.
But it could also be possible that it is different in other regions. Because queue times are also different, e.g. US-players can get Survivors queues from over 10 minutes, this never happened in EU. So differences are present.
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Two hook stages with 1 gen completed is a good start....
You take that any day. You aren't going to pitch a shutout if matchmaking is working correctly
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Where did i say that i get decent teammates on a regular basis?
I get teammates that dc, suicide or are afk all the time. But passing on a jungle gym?
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Unless I'm missing something Aven never said they were good survivors. Never said they weren't terrible. All they said was they weren't afk. Am I missing something in this?
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You're progressing through your objective effectively by downing 2 survivors quickly. Meanwhile the other 2 survivors are progressing through their objective.
Nothing wrong here. You did well (or perhaps the survivors played poorly) to get those downs quickly. Well done.
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Lol basekit BNP and provethyself.
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what's the issue? im confused about your complaint. 50 seconds means the last 2 survivors are on that gen.
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Yeah, you missed the quote where he said: "You are pretty lucky if you can get decent teammates on a regular basis."
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Basic game design tells me that being able to complete 40% of your objective 1 minute in regardless of how well the other side does has nothing to do with "gamesense" lol. To put it in perspective, what if killers could consistently accomplish that much in 1 minute. 40% would mean getting 4.8 hook states in the first minute. Who would be okay with that? My guess would be no one would be. And in general my game sense is just fine because I still 4ked. But this isn't about me. This is about the speed of the early game in general.
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You see nothing wrong with 40% of gens popping in 50-80 seconds regardless of what the killer does? It takes longer to get past the loading screen lol.
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Not seeing an issue here.
You downed two survivors. That's two hooks for one gen. That means one person has to go for the unhooks so that means only person doing gens. If you manage to hook both players next to each other, that's an almost guaranteed Stage 2 for at least one of them.
And you said you still 4k? What are you upset about, again? Man, the entitlement of the forum users I swear.
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Two downs that early is massive pressure. If you play in a competent manner they'll be on the defensive the rest of the match.
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I don´t know what reputation i have on the forum. But some people call me biased killer main or say that i have a "killers weak" agenda or something like that. Meanwhile i play both sides equally. Some months i play survivor only and some i play more killer. But since i think, that survivors shouldn´t be able to complete 60% of their objective by the time the killer gets his first hook, i get called biased.
Most of the issues survivors complain about, would be solved if killers didn´t feel pressured to camp/tunnel someone early out in order to apply pressure and slow down the gens. 4 out of the 5 most popular killer perks are for gen slowdown. Killers don´t equip them for a easy win or because they enjoy this stale meta. Because lets face it, gen slowdown perks don´t help in chases. They don´t reward the killer for playing bad. They don´t even help with progressing the killers objective, because killers often have to decide between finishing a chase or kicking a gen. Protecting a ruin or go for that gen with 2 survivors on it. Killers just feel forced to equip gen slowdown perks, because otherwise the matches end in 5 minutes.
Usually the whole pressure of the match rests on the shoulders of the killer. When it should be the other way around or at least each side should feel equally pressured. OP had 4 gen slowdown perks and still lost the first gen in less than 60 seconds, despite facing terrible survivors that didn´t know how to waste any of the killers time during the chase.
Devs are already thinking about a way to solve camping, while they scrapped the whole early game collapse idea. Which ironically would have taken pressure off the killers and allowed for a less sweaty killer approach.
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1/5 gens is 20%, not 40% like you claim BTW, just pointing this out since you are so adamant on percentage of objective completed
In the same time you got 2 downs (can we say that you got 2 hooks?) that translates to 2/12 completion of your objective, aka 1/6, aka 16.66%
Not very far off from 20%, considering that the longer the game goes on, the easier it is for the killer to progress in their objective
(And the survivors objective includes opening the doors as well, so saying that a completed gen is a flat 20% would be wrong as well, in reality is a bit lower)
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2/5 gens typically pop in the first 50-80 seconds of every match. 2/5 = 40%. Getting 2 downs in that time frame is extremely rare and that's the whole entire point of the thread. Performing at peak levels still doesn't stop gens from popping early which is crazy to me. Does that mean I'm saying you can't win? No. Does it explain why a lot killers feel too much pressure early on and that's why they resort to camping/tunneling? Yes.
In my opinion, it's not the length of the game the determines when it gets easier for killers to progress their objective. It's how fast the killer gets their first kill vs the number of gens lost during that time (excluding gimmicks like NOED). If you have a kill before the third gen pops, your chances of winning are exponentially higher than if 4 people are still alive with 2 gens left.
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I don’t see a problem here, 2 downs for a gen is a good start. You now have full map pressure and can get a free down off of the unhook attempt. Gens aren’t meant to stay up forever. I’ve had plenty of games where I lose 3 gens in the first few minutes, but once I get pressure on the survivors I don’t lose another. The mentality that you need to get a down before a gen pops is silly, and the game has never worked that way if people are trying, unless the skill gap is very large in that trial.
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You cannot really say that each Gen is 20%. If you go just by maths, sure, 1 Gen out of 5 is 20%. But, the longer the game goes on, the harder it becomes to complete Gens. The first Gen is by far the easiest one and the last Gen the hardest. And as long as they dont complete the last Gen, all the Gens before dont matter for the Survivors escape.
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"The first gen is by far the easiest one and the last gen the hardest" - I get what you are trying to say but this is highly dependent on A) how many survivors are left B) the spread of the remaining gens / map C) whether a COH boon has been placed in a dead zone.
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If you leave gens unattended for 80 seconds, ESPECIALLY at the start, they are going to get completed.
In the video you left FOUR GENS unattended while chasing survivors in an area of the map that only had blocked gens.
What do you expect the other survivors to do? Ruin and Corrupt do nothing if you don't know how to take advantage of them, and the video showed you NOT taking advantage of them.
it's not the length of the game the determines when it gets easier for killers to progress their objective.
It's not? Is it not easier to patrol gens if there's less to check? Is it not easier to down survivors if there are fewer pallets around to slow you down?
Of course the earlier you get a kill, the easier it is to win, but even a person who only saw the Steam front page of DbD can tell you that.
There is a core difference between killer and survivor gameplay:
Survivors have an easy start, while killers have an hard one:
- Gens that can be worked on are a lot and spread out, making it easy for survivor to repair them without the killer finding out
- Every pallet is up, meaning the survivors have enough resources to delay the first down
- Everyone is alive and well, so being hooked is not a big deal for the survivors, they have plenty of time and people to rescue
- Survivor items (if they have them) are at full capacity
The longer the match goes on, the more the situation reverses: survivors have it harder, while killer have it easier:
- Gens that can be worked on are less and less, potentially concentrated in an area, making the killer's patrols easier and harder for survivors to repair them without being caught
- Pallets get used, transforming safe areas of the map in dead zones
- People are injured and hooked, making them more and more vulnerable to death, being hooked can mean life or death of a survivor
- Survivor items get used up, becoming useless
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What's the issue in the clip?
You got two downs while the people that you didn't down/chase weren't AFK and did a gen?
I'd imagine most people, new players included, would recognize this as an excellent start.
There's nothing crazy or oppressive happening in this clip - Is this some sort of flex about getting two downs quick or something?
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- Between the time I could move (4 seconds) and the time I reached the first survivor (22 seconds) is 18 seconds. How do you have time to take advantage of anything in 18 seconds? I happened to correctly guess where they were. So I have no idea where you get that this video shows me not taking advantage of corrupt/ruin lol. The full match lasted under 8 minutes. But again, this is not about me or my performance. This is about the ridiculous expectation that most killers can or should be able to keep up with this lol.
- Good survivors (more specifically swfs) can generally have it easy all the way through from start to finish. These days, survivors don't stay injured because they can heal super quick (with or without COH). 3 gens can be easily defeated because of the war of attrition due to healing speeds. COH in dead zone = no more 3 gen. Now add in some of the atrocious map designs ie Game, Haddonfield, Springwood etc. In my experience, dead survivors are the only thing that actually make the game easier for the killer. If 4 survivors are alive with 2 gens left, that's basically at least a 3 out (discounting cheap noed kills).
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I happened to correctly guess where they were.
Exactly, Ruin and Corrupt had nothing to do with you guessing correctly
So I have no idea where you get that this video shows me not taking advantage of corrupt/ruin
I already explained it in my previous comments, let me quote the first one for you
Ruin does nothing if you don't push survivors off gens, and if you are close to blocked gens, you can't push anyone off them.
I have no idea what's the meaning of your whole second point, I'm not even going to address it because it looks more like ranting about COH and map design
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Your posts show me that you are missing my point entirely. It's not about Ruin/Corrupt. It's about the fact that NO MATTER WHAT I DO the outcome (losing gen early) is still the same. To me, this is a problem. You clearly enjoy losing gens early regardless of how well you perform, so we can just agree to disagree.
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Why is it so important to keep those Gens? You are supposed to kill the Survivors, not to end the Game with 5 Gens.
You wrote you got a 4K. How many Gens were left?
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Classic definition of a "sore winner"
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This video doesn't show that.
This video shows you not taking advantage of 2 of your 4 perks, and complaining about the fact that they are not passively doing your work.
I was commenting on the video, and I (together with other people) already tried to explain to you WHY losing a gen early is considered normal, and not a lot to worry about in DbD.
To me, this is a problem.
Why is it a problem? I explained why it shouldn't be a problem, try and do the same with your hypothesis
And no, don't use the "Experienced survivors do that, noobs killers don't know that" argument, because that's grasping at straws
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You aren't meant to stop all gens all the time, it is quite literally impossible without the survivors just not doing them. Even with corrupt, ruin, and pop, the start of the game is always when survivors are at their strongest and a gen or two is almost guranteed.
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- my video shows that i engaged with the survivors 18 seconds in, got 2 downs, and still lost a gen in 50 seconds. Where is this magical extra time to patrol the other gens across the map and/or how am I not taking advantage of perks that I literally had almost no time to take advantage of?
- Your hypothesis boils down to "that's just how it is". My hypothesis is i don't think it should be like that and it shouldn't be considered normal. Not sure what's so difficult to understand about that. But no worries. Feel free to keep ignoring the fact that the sometimes overwhelming early game pressure that killers face is a major contributor to why people just camp or causes people not to play killer. But I guess "that's just how it is" right lmao.
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Imagine getting a 4k and still complaining about losing gens.
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Well at some point gens are gonna pop, it’s pretty easy to pressure them early on.
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Wow, it's like speaking to wall..
You know what, you do you, give me a shout when you're ready to pull out the earplugs and I'll be more than happy to help you understand what you were doing wrong in that clip
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Yes it is like speaking to a wall because you really believe in your mind that something different or better can be done within 18 seconds of a match starting lol. We can just agree to disagree. No need to continue the back and forth any further.
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Based on what the wiki says, 2 survivors can finish a generator in roughly 46 seconds without any sort of modifiers like toolboxes or perks, and a single survivor takes 80 seconds. David, running No Mither, could also have had Resilience and a beefy toolbox charge and repair speed addons perhaps.
Regardless, losing the first couple generators is inevitable against any group of survivors worth their salt. SWF or not, unless you just hard slug everyone and force out Unbreakables and such. Personally I'd only begin to worry about gens popping once you get to 3-2 remaining, especially if the spread on them is very far. In these situations, if you're not doing so hot on hooks, try to identify a 3 gen and defend it to the best of your abilities. Letting survivors do all of the center generators without applying pressure to them will almost always be your downfall in games.
Getting someone sacrificed somewhat early on will also help you lots in the later parts of the game, which is why lots of people decide to tunnel, so they can get someone out of the game as quickly as possible, because a 3v1 is much much easier to play against than a 4v1, because with 4 survivors, there's no reason for there NOT to always be someone working on generators. 1 person on gens, 1 on hook when you eventually catch them, 1 person getting chased, and 1 person going for the save. In a 3v1, suddenly the person that was on gens has to go for the save as soon as you start chasing the third survivor.
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Corrupt only blocks 3 gens, all the other 4 can still be done. If you're unlucky with RNG survivors can still spawn on the unblocked ones.
Ruin does nothing if you're not chasing survivors off generators.
Two survivors take 47 seconds to do a gen, so they probably spawned on the unblocked gen and immediately did it. If you don't want to deal with that, consider using Discordance.
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Nah, this tells me your understanding of the games fundamentals and maths isnt really good. 1 Gen isnt 40% of the objective. Its 20% of the gen objective, afterwards theres also the exitgate objective, so its even less from full survivor objectives. Therefor you already got 2/12 hooks, even though you dont even need all 12 hooks. thats pretty fine.
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I didn't say 1 gen = 40%. you are purposely misstating what I said to fit your own narrative (you can literally scroll up and see what I said lol). I said 2/5 gens usually pop. 2/5 = 40% of gens. I'm done with this conversation now. You can have it man. Mods feel free to lock this when you see it please.
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Closing this thread, as requested by the OP.
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