DS is not op (my opinion)
Perks that are more OP are borrowed time, adrenaline, (majority of exhaustion perks), and I would say self care but it’s only because it’s a necessity to survive longer.
DS is also a perk that requires you to survive longer. This is what the survivor’s main goal is but I play both killer and survivor and I have been able to mori or sacrifice DS users. (Keep in mind some of them were also in SWF groups).
Now I called the other perks OP because it actually does something that can hurt the killer a lot more. Escaping at ease (but with a possible risk depending on situation)
DS can definitely escape but they’re still injured regardless. Most of the time killers are provoked by this DS user and tend to try to kill them first which can waste your time in your own game as killer.
Borrowed time can save your teammate and I personally love saving teammates because I understand the frustration of not getting as much BPs as a fellow survivor (plus I get points for altruism as well).
BT can actually waste time of the killer even if they do end up chasing the person who got unhooked but the amount of times I’ve seen the killer chase other survivors who distract them or other times the person escapes in the end. I’ve seen this happen many times before.
Adrenaline is extremely situational. I personally use it as a solo survivor on my Dwight just in case. Due to the perk healing one state which sounds insanely OP AND a speed boost for a short period of time? Honestly that’s crazy.
I’ve managed to win by escaping my chases from the killer, I got downed and ended up getting away while injuried of course but I still ended up escaping, got unhooked and I was healed (possible BT) it’s a crazy op perk.
Exhaustion perks aren’t as OP but it gives you an advantage to get away from the killer if you know where you’re going and what you’re doing. A mistake made can lead to you being downed or possible death. I personally find lithe the second best exhaustion perk instead of balanced landing.
Self care is technically considered a crutch perk but it’s also necessary as a base kit. It makes you survive longer despite the longer healing time but it’s still somewhat worth it in the end. It’s too risky to stay injuried in your matches. If you don’t like self care, use bond or adrenaline those perks will definitely help you out.
Of course this is all my opinion and if you don’t agree that’s completely fine!
(I’ll tweak this later on the day because I typed all of this on my phone and I’m pretty sure I’ve made a couple of mistakes!)
Comments
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Decisive Strike is the most brokenly overpowered perk in the game by a wide margin. Losing even one hook at the end of a long chase can cost the killer the whole game and the survivors can do it four times in a single match at no cost.
Also, there's nothing situational about Adrenaline. Unlike NOED, where you would prefer to kill the survivors before they even finish the generators, for a survivor repairing the generators is the primary objective so Adrenaline should always be kicking in.
But the real issue with Decisive Strike isn't even that it's overpowered, though it is. The real issue is that it's a slap in the face to the killer. They won the chase fair and square but the survivor gets away for free. It's bad game design. It punishes the killer for doing their job. Where is the killer perk that lets them kick a fully repaired generator to shut it off completely?10 -
It's not about the power of the perk it is rather the timing. To get the effects of adrenaline you need to complete all 5 generators, to use borrowed time you need to rescue someone from the hook. With decisive strike, you can use it instantly when you get picked up. If the killer chases a survivor after catching them, a good survivor can extend the chase extensively with the use of decisive strike. By using decisive strike the survivors teammates do not have to stop doing generators which leads to a massive time waste for the killer and can eventually lead to a loss.
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DS is almost as bad as bad rng. When you have bad rng and a ds then you are having bad luck. Just make sure to give them a hard time if they want to use it. A cheap perk and I can see the similarity to noed. However noed can be non existent in a match and ds is available everytime you get downed. Even if you're not the obsession as long as you are reasonably far from a hook you have a chance to throw the killers hard work away.0
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DS can definitely escape but they’re still injured regardless. Most of the time killers are provoked by this DS user and tend to try to kill them first which can waste your time in your own game as killer.
Just like adrenaline, DS heals you a healthstate...
Just like adrenaline, DS grants a distance between you AND the killer.
But unlike adrenaline, Adrenaline only allows for extra distance for ONE player, while DS allows for extra distance for THE ENTIRE TEAM
And unlike adrenaline, its free health-state cannot be negated through the use of insta-downing.
And unlike adrenaline, DS CAN BE USED ANYWHERE DURING THE MATCH.
It objectively has more power.
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@Gamzello said:
DS is not an op perk. It’s frustrating for killers yes, but for survivors it’s just a crutch perk. Just like NOED and let me explain why.Perks that are more OP are borrowed time, adrenaline, (majority of exhaustion perks), and I would say self care but it’s only because it’s a necessity to survive longer.
DS is also a perk that requires you to survive longer. This is what the survivor’s main goal is but I play both killer and survivor and I have been able to mori or sacrifice DS users. (Keep in mind some of them were also in SWF groups).
Now I called the other perks OP because it actually does something that can hurt the killer a lot more. Escaping at ease (but with a possible risk depending on situation)
DS can definitely escape but they’re still injured regardless. Most of the time killers are provoked by this DS user and tend to try to kill them first which can waste your time in your own game as killer.
Borrowed time can save your teammate and I personally love saving teammates because I understand the frustration of not getting as much BPs as a fellow survivor (plus I get points for altruism as well).
BT can actually waste time of the killer even if they do end up chasing the person who got unhooked but the amount of times I’ve seen the killer chase other survivors who distract them or other times the person escapes in the end. I’ve seen this happen many times before.
Adrenaline is extremely situational. I personally use it as a solo survivor on my Dwight just in case. Due to the perk healing one state which sounds insanely OP AND a speed boost for a short period of time? Honestly that’s crazy.
I’ve managed to win by escaping my chases from the killer, I got downed and ended up getting away while injuried of course but I still ended up escaping, got unhooked and I was healed (possible BT) it’s a crazy op perk.
Exhaustion perks aren’t as OP but it gives you an advantage to get away from the killer if you know where you’re going and what you’re doing. A mistake made can lead to you being downed or possible death. I personally find lithe the second best exhaustion perk instead of balanced landing.
Self care is technically considered a crutch perk but it’s also necessary as a base kit. It makes you survive longer despite the longer healing time but it’s still somewhat worth it in the end. It’s too risky to stay injuried in your matches. If you don’t like self care, use bond or adrenaline those perks will definitely help you out.
Of course this is all my opinion and if you don’t agree that’s completely fine!
(I’ll tweak this later on the day because I typed all of this on my phone and I’m pretty sure I’ve made a couple of mistakes!)
DS is not a perk that requires you to survive longer, its a perk that allows you to survive longer by hitting a simple skillcheck, resetting all the progress of the killer and restarting the loopgame. Thats the reason why its so OP.
Tell me, what exactly are the risks of using DS? The risk of never being chased so that you cant use it?
And yes, BT is OP too, especially since its recent buff.
Exhaustion perks arent OP anymore since the nerf, they also can be countered (in some way), while DS has no counter
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@The_Manlet said:
Decisive Strike is the most brokenly overpowered perk in the game by a wide margin. Losing even one hook at the end of a long chase can cost the killer the whole game and the survivors can do it four times in a single match at no cost.
Also, there's nothing situational about Adrenaline. Unlike NOED, where you would prefer to kill the survivors before they even finish the generators, for a survivor repairing the generators is the primary objective so Adrenaline should always be kicking in.
But the real issue with Decisive Strike isn't even that it's overpowered, though it is. The real issue is that it's a slap in the face to the killer. They won the chase fair and square but the survivor gets away for free. It's bad game design. It punishes the killer for doing their job. Where is the killer perk that lets them kick a fully repaired generator to shut it off completely?It's not so fair and square when you get pranked by ping : (
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@jackmadrox said:
My opinion on DS is this: It's not OP, but it's really annoying and at times, game breaking.If it's game breaking then surely it must be overpowered. Game breaking is worse than just overpowered.
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Normal DS is not OP, okay fine. But its the wiggle DS which completely makes you lose the whole match. And if one single perk can change the whole outcome of the match, something is wrong with it (-> it's overpowered.)0
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Earlier today I had a cocky DS obsession who didn't leave when he had the chance so I downed him right at the exit gates by doing a 180. I used a legit tactic that played against his cocky attitude.
He had DS, and broke free before escaping.
Despite me outsmarting the survivor, the game did not reward me by giving me a hook, it instead slapped me in the face and said "Sucks to be you.". This is why DS is OP.
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Imo people freak out so much about DS because it happens when you normally would feel satisfied and relaxed for winning the chase, but instead your flow gets broken by that perk.
Personally I feel as Sprint Burst is stronger and more annoying. I had matches where 3-4 survivors had SB and I wasted way more time catching up. Particularly frustrating when I managed to catch them off guard but still they could slip away.1 -
Perhaps the best DS rework would just be to apply the deep wound status once it has been used.0
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DS is not comparable to NOED.
Like....at all.
If NOED allowed killers to hit a skill check and rehook a survivor after an escape, THAT would be comparable.
But I still lol when people try to compare them.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
DS can definitely escape but they’re still injured regardless. Most of the time killers are provoked by this DS user and tend to try to kill them first which can waste your time in your own game as killer.
Just like adrenaline, DS heals you a healthstate...
Just like adrenaline, DS grants a distance between you AND the killer.
But unlike adrenaline, Adrenaline only allows for extra distance for ONE player, while DS allows for extra distance for THE ENTIRE TEAM
And unlike adrenaline, its free health-state cannot be negated through the use of insta-downing.
And unlike adrenaline, DS CAN BE USED ANYWHERE DURING THE MATCH.
It objectively has more power.
Since when did DS heal you a healthstate since you're still in the injured state when the killer drops you.
Yes it does but if you're good they don't make it far and if you planned ahead you're downed them close to a hook, dribbled them, made them fall where you want etc. The smart ones which aren't as common are the ones that wait until the gates are open.
No it doesn't because that would require the entire team to be using it and each person being downed and use it. That is unless you're standing around after initiating a chase each time to give them extra distance.
Again it gives no free health state at all ever unless you stand there waiting patiently for them to Self Care for 32 seconds minimum.
That technically correct and incorrect since if you get slugged you can't use it, you get dribbled near a hook you can't use it, you're the obsession and killer has Rancor. You're also forgetting if you don't use it before you've been hooked and the killer has a mori you don't get to use it.
Yes it objectively has more power but so do instadown hatches along with other things that unlike DS aren't limited to 1 time usage. Is it a problem and needs to be addressed yes, is it completely game breaking no since if it was it'd be in every loadout in every game.
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Since when did DS heal you a healthstate since you're still in the injured state when the killer drops you.
You are in the dying state when the killer grabs you.
Yes it does but if you're good they don't make it far and if you planned ahead you're downed them close to a hook, dribbled them, made them fall where you want etc. The smart ones which aren't as common are the ones that wait until the gates are open.
Survivors control where they die.
No it doesn't because that would require the entire team to be using it and each person being downed and use it. That is unless you're standing around after initiating a chase each time to give them extra distance.
It only requires 1. The killer is stunned while every survivor (whether they have DS or not), gain distance.
That technically correct and incorrect since if you get slugged you can't use it, you get dribbled near a hook you can't use it, you're the obsession and killer has Rancor. You're also forgetting if you don't use it before you've been hooked and the killer has a mori you don't get to use it.
Dribbling still buys you time. Dribbling makes things even worse if you get it off. Adds a secret bonus to power. Organised survivors (whether SWF or not) can get everyone's DS off if they want to.
Is it a problem and needs to be addressed yes, is it completely game breaking no since if it was it'd be in every loadout in every game.
It doesn't have to be in every load-out because DBD doesn't have a real ranking system that would otherwise mandate you to play with the best available, and if it had, you'd see a whole lot more DS and a whole lot less "Look rank 1 without perks". That is just the pseudo-rank fallacy. Since no perks are required at higher ranks, no perk could be OP by that logic, because there's never a need to run them.
To add to that is: DS is a licensed killer perk + opinion makers like Tru3Talent promote an anti-DS incentive that makes people proud of not using the perk, so they deliberately avoid it
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@The_Manlet said:
Decisive Strike is the most brokenly overpowered perk in the game by a wide margin. Losing even one hook at the end of a long chase can cost the killer the whole game and the survivors can do it four times in a single match at no cost.
Also, there's nothing situational about Adrenaline. Unlike NOED, where you would prefer to kill the survivors before they even finish the generators, for a survivor repairing the generators is the primary objective so Adrenaline should always be kicking in.
But the real issue with Decisive Strike isn't even that it's overpowered, though it is. The real issue is that it's a slap in the face to the killer. They won the chase fair and square but the survivor gets away for free. It's bad game design. It punishes the killer for doing their job. Where is the killer perk that lets them kick a fully repaired generator to shut it off completely?Pop goes the weasel...
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@powerbatsSince when did DS heal you a healthstate since you're still in the injured state when the killer drops you.
You are in the dying state when the killer grabs you.
Yes it does but if you're good they don't make it far and if you planned ahead you're downed them close to a hook, dribbled them, made them fall where you want etc. The smart ones which aren't as common are the ones that wait until the gates are open.
Survivors control where they die.
No it doesn't because that would require the entire team to be using it and each person being downed and use it. That is unless you're standing around after initiating a chase each time to give them extra distance.
It only requires 1. The killer is stunned while every survivor (whether they have DS or not), gain distance.
That technically correct and incorrect since if you get slugged you can't use it, you get dribbled near a hook you can't use it, you're the obsession and killer has Rancor. You're also forgetting if you don't use it before you've been hooked and the killer has a mori you don't get to use it.
Dribbling still buys you time. Dribbling makes things even worse if you get it off. Adds a secret bonus to power. Organised survivors (whether SWF or not) can get everyone's DS off if they want to.
Is it a problem and needs to be addressed yes, is it completely game breaking no since if it was it'd be in every loadout in every game.
It doesn't have to be in every load-out because DBD doesn't have a real ranking system that would otherwise mandate you to play with the best available, and if it had, you'd see a whole lot more DS and a whole lot less "Look rank 1 without perks". That is just the pseudo-rank fallacy. Since no perks are required at higher ranks, no perk could be OP by that logic, because there's never a need to run them.
To add to that is: DS is a licensed killer perk + opinion makers like Tru3Talent promote an anti-DS incentive that makes people proud of not using the perk, so they deliberately avoid it
I forgot about that one since i think of it as you're still basically exposed and most of the time killers get you so good catch.
That's not always accurate though, a good killer can change their angle to chase you where they want you to go and they decide when to hit and not to hit. Think of an M1 killer they have to decide when to swing and down that survivor.
The only time the survivor gets to decide is when both sides are farming, and when they run to the corner of the map to frustrate the killer.
That's still incorrect unless you magically find all 4 standing there twiddling their thumbs while they wait for you to get DS stunned. Most of the time the others are further away doing gens, breaking totems and searching through chests.
Yes it can buy you more time or it can help the killer tremendously because people rush in for a save or as a distraction. I've also rarely seen a 4 man swf with all 4 havin DS and when I've faced them I still get 2-4k usually.
That's incorrect since DS is a wasted perk slot really and it's not the best thing in the game for all the reasons both I and others have listed. The only pseudo fallacies here are the ones you're using since plenty of survivors don't run DS and do just fine.
Now don't start with rank means nothing nonsense or that the killers are potatoes because there's lots of good players at rank one that belong there because they know how to play.
I could care less about the Red Herring licensed perk nonsense or what Tru says because as some killer mains on here have said. He's just a streamer so his opinion doesn't mean that much or they do when you reference a streamer that says something they disagree with.
I choose to run or not to run perks based upon my playstyle and what I feel best suits how i'm trying to play at that time. I don't go off of whether someone says don't use it or use it nonsense and neither do a lot of others.
If you're going to use him as an example you might as well use he who shall not be named as an example of people promoting something and their followers making themselves proud for following his example.
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1: I forgot about that one since i think of it as you're still basically exposed and most of the time killers get you so good catch.
2: That's not always accurate though, a good killer can change their angle to chase you where they want you to go and they decide when to hit and not to hit. Think of an M1 killer they have to decide when to swing and down that survivor.
3: The only time the survivor gets to decide is when both sides are farming, and when they run to the corner of the map to frustrate the killer.
4: That's still incorrect unless you magically find all 4 standing there twiddling their thumbs while they wait for you to get DS stunned. Most of the time the others are further away doing gens, breaking totems and searching through chests.
4: Yes it can buy you more time or it can help the killer tremendously because people rush in for a save or as a distraction. I've also rarely seen a 4 man swf with all 4 havin DS and when I've faced them I still get 2-4k usually.
5: That's incorrect since DS is a wasted perk slot really and it's not the best thing in the game for all the reasons both I and others have listed. The only pseudo fallacies here are the ones you're using since plenty of survivors don't run DS and do just fine.
6: Now don't start with rank means nothing nonsense or that the killers are potatoes because there's lots of good players at rank one that belong there because they know how to play.
7: I could care less about the Red Herring licensed perk nonsense or what Tru says because as some killer mains on here have said. He's just a streamer so his opinion doesn't mean that much or they do when you reference a streamer that says something they disagree with.
8: I choose to run or not to run perks based upon my playstyle and what I feel best suits how i'm trying to play at that time. I don't go off of whether someone says don't use it or use it nonsense and neither do a lot of others.
9: If you're going to use him as an example you might as well use he who shall not be named as an example of people promoting something and their followers making themselves proud for following his example.
1: Correction: most good killers get bad survivors so good catch. Good killers don't get good survivors. Instead, the survivors get an extra chance at a chase for 10+ seconds and for every second, other survivors can get 3 times that amount of gGn time done. A Chase lasting 13.33 seconds? Oops, that perk just bought them half a generator.
2: Good survivors can also change their angle when good killers change their angle, or abandon the spot where the killer mindgames themselves.
3: The survivor is the only one that controls their position, up until they are picked up. The survivor can only due to a mistake die at a position unintended, but they there they still controlled every position for them possibly to die on.
4: Your point is that when survivors are not moving they don't gain distance? I'll promise you, that works the same way for adrenaline.
If a killer runs after 4 survivors in a straight line and 1 gains a sprint-burst, then only 1 gained increased distance from that killer.
If a killer runs after 4 survivors in a straight line and gets stunned, 4 survivors gain increased distance from that killer.5: Marth88's statistics would like to have a talk with you.
5: I'm using a fallacy? "Plenty of survivors don't run DS and do fine". That is NOT EVIDENCE of DS being weak. ITS LITERALLY EVIDENCE of DBD having a fake ranking system. A good survivor will do well WITHOUT ANY PERKS, due to the fake ranking system that matched bad players with good players and lacks a rank-domain.6:
Me: The fact that you have a drivers license doesn't mean you're a pro racer.You: Now don't start with drivers licenses are meaningless nonsense or that drivers are potatoes because there's lots of good pro-racers that have a drivers license and deserve to have one because they know how to drive.
Me:
7: Your point is? I don't remember my point being that you did what he says. I'm saying that he and other influence a lot of other people not to use it, and evidently for this reason, they do. It's not because they are submissive/stupid, but because at their own hands they "fix" the game through such a social contract.
8: True has a lot of subscribers. Others do care.
9: And that's the reason why we also see highly motivated SWF teams with flashlights and the whole package. Because they do have influence.
extra 10:
I hope we're not still pretending that DBD has a ranking system, when everybody can be rank 1 at the same time. Delete the rank reset so playing frequency is eliminated and nearly everybody that plays the game will be rank 1.You don't have the Olympic games when everybody can have the golden metal at the same time.
You don't have a football match if both teams get to win during the same match.And death by daylight's "ranking" system (cough, seasonal grinding system) has both of those anti-rank principles.
But since I already covered this:1 -
DS can singlehandedly decide the game. No other perk has such an impact on the game with no counterplay on top!
DBD is a heavy snowbally game. The first hook/kill is crucial for the wincondition of the killer. If you can deny this by the press of a button it is OP.
Even if you saved the DS the moment the gate are powered you are invincible aslong you don't go down near a hook. There is simply nothing a killer can do to hook you at that state and dribbling over one half of the map is just not viable.
If you really want to understand DS check my DS for killer. https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/39324/ds-for-killers#latest
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DS is extremely strong, but in the end it depends on the survivor using it and when it's used. I consider myself a decent killer, DS is more of a nuisance in my opinion, if the survivor I managed to down was good I'll try to dribble them, otherwise I let them waste it by walking backwards, standing still or trying to get them stuck somewhere. I managed to get one survivor stuck behind one of the entrance doors (You know, the one you can hide behind) in Lery's, the guy DCd right after, I never laughed so hard.
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When everyone had it, DS was way too OP. But it's fairly manageable now. Just juggle the obsession if you're close enough to a hook or leave him on the ground if you're not.
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DS is the reason I don't play this game anymore. It's absolutely burned me out as killer. It's just not a fun perk to play against. The perk itself isn't OP, but how it changes the dynamic of the game. You can either eat the DS and if the survivor is good this will initiate an entire new chase (all while other survivors continue to hold M1 down). You can slug them have them healed back up in 30 seconds, or you can juggle them for 2 minutes to a hook. Pick your poison. Trials are simply too quick for any of these to be a good option. That's why DS needs to be fixed.
It's a garbage perk that needs to be addressed and I refuse to play this game again until they do.
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DS isnt OP. I personally dont use it but alot of the players that I see use it hit the skill check and about 5 seconds later they get knocked again. Its one of those one time perks that make it trash tbh. I would rather have Botany or We'll Make it. Cuz tbh DS only delays the inevitable.2
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@TheHourMan said:
Perhaps the best DS rework would just be to apply the deep wound status once it has been used.That wouldn't really change anything. With the new BT, you'd have to chase the survivor until you hit them once more.
@Ablutomaniac said:
When everyone had it, DS was way too OP. But it's fairly manageable now. Just juggle the obsession if you're close enough to a hook or leave him on the ground if you're not.Depending on what rank you are playing on, you get 2-3 DS per match on a regular basis. It's not a thing of the past.
@XavierBoah17 said:
DS isnt OP. I personally dont use it but alot of the players that I see use it hit the skill check and about 5 seconds later they get knocked again.Experienced players don't get hit again 5 seconds later, they last much longer. And there are a lot of experienced players...
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Even if you catch the DS user in 20 seconds thats 3 survivors doing generators for extra 20 seconds.
So 3/4th of the generator gets completed cuz survivor managed to hit a skill check. Now if all 4 survivors have DS thats 3 generators worth of time lost for killer.
There is a reason why DS is getting changed. And most good survivors refuse to use it.
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Time is important in DBD and I don’t really play in higher ranks so I assume that a lot of people in higher ranks have DS.
However. I’ve seen DS users in my game as some of you have mentioned, that get downed, missed DS, and end up being hooked or killed.
I have personally killed many DS users myself while playing killer and yes I’ve also had them escape my grasp. It can be very annoying.
Apparently the nerf for DS was announced MONTHS ago and I’m not exactly sure why they haven’t said anything else about it or done anything about it.
I still don’t find DS to be as OP because honestly it always depends on the other player and situation like; is this player bad? are the gates open? are their swf friends around me? Hooking them as fast as I can is the best option tbh because I hardly ever bring in moris.
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ds its broken in 1 way and its that more than 1 survivor that have ds thats it
ppl think its powerfull i mean you have a perk called enduring....i mean i dont know ppl get trigged like theres no tomorrow1 -
I think they should remove some seconds of the stun by ds and instead give the survivor a little speed burst. That way the killer isnt stunned much time but the survivor still get some gap between the killer and himself.
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Users with DS will save their DS and stick around after the match ends just because they know the killer can't hurt them. It's frustrating. If I down the obsession near an open exit gate, that's it, they escape no matter what. The only counter to this is Rancor, which doesn't help against any non-obsession survivor with DS.
I was playing a match the other day where I was practicing chasing and not sacrificing anyone. Of course no one left at the end, because that would be too easy. The obsession found a spot on the map not near any hooks and started making noise. I downed them and walked away, and they crawled towards me, desperate for a chance to use their DS. It was disgusting.
DS is broken because it encourages many survivors to actively seek the killer out just to punish them. It puts a lot of power in the hands of one survivor. Actions that should be a mistake are now rewarding. Sure, sometimes this can work in the killer's favor, but that's rare.
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