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Does Survivor Gameplay Require Skill?
Question on title.
Why i am asking this question? Because I've seen opinions that survivor gameplay is braindead and simple. Is it really?
I mean repairing generators are easy and does not need skill for sure. But what about looping? Also good teams know which generators should fix first and give big area to killer for last 3 gens. This strategies really does not need skill? What do you think?
Comments
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not really, but the same is also true for killer
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Even Nurse and Blight?
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Depends on the map. On the The Game, it definitely doesn't require skill, you just run whichever direction you want, there will definitely be more than enough safe pallets around just before the killer can catch up that make it impossible to get rid of before all gens are done.
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No and it's only gotten worse thanks to their perks being so forgiving.
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Everything in this game requires at least a bit of skill.
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I am asking for balanced maps actually, like Azarov, Yamaoka, MacMillan
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Lmao no.
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Can you explain your opinion?
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As someone who plays both, the simple answer is no.
The more complicated answer, depends.
Playing with halfway decent friends? Not at all.
Playing with bad random people and you need to run the killer for 5 gens? Takes a bit more skill on certain maps.
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It does
I doubt many people would argue that it's harder than the killer role in terms of skill but that doesn't make it that it requires zero thoughts or skills. Sure, holding M1 is easy enough but unless the killer you're going up against has no idea what they're doing, you shouldn't ever have a game where that's literally all you do.
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This.
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Everything in this world requires skill, that includes Survivor and just Dead by Daylight as a whole
Its a really easy game to pick up and understand the mechanics because of its simplicity. How ever theres TONES of little neat tricks to learn through your journey that truly seperates a novice from an expert, and an expert from a master.
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Biggest issue with survivor for me is that more than 50% of the game is just M1 Simulator. The remaining percentage being "run around in a circle and dropping a wooden board at the baddie". There should be more nuance to repairing and looping. Items should be integrated into the chases similar to that of flash bangs. Repairing should involve looking for components so it's more fun for both sides.
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Survivor has a pretty high skill floor, but low skill ceiling. Once you know how to loop, everything else is game knowledge, not skill
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That wasn't specified, and I don't consider any of those balanced, btw.
And even then, it doesn't make much skill. There are so many safety nets for survivors, that they can screw up a bunch of times without it having major consequences. They literally do not have to get good in the first place. Mediocre at best is sufficient with the status quo.
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Yes, it does require skill.
If it didn't everyone would be always escaping and solo q wouldnt be an issue because of potato team mates.
Everyone who says now it's completely delusional and has a bias agenda.
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I agree with that. Some survivors are pretty smart. Looping does need skill. They are using pallets so good, mindgaming you etc.
But we also have Shift + W tactics. Run and drop pallet when killer gets close. I don't think this needs any skill.
But if it does not need skill on most maps, why kill rates are high than escape rates? If we agree your opinion is true, this would make more escapes but it does not.
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Some aspects require skill like learning how to run loops, identifying strong tiles, how to prevent a 3 gen scenario or escape it, and some movement tech for optimization
The issue isn't really that it takes no skill just that it takes less skill than playing killer because you mechanically have less that you can do. Your objective doesn't really require anything mentally or physically intensive.
Also, once you've gained skill in the areas that have skill you've learned it no matter what survivor you play. You'll never run into a situation where a skill you learned on Kate just doesn't translate to Feng, etc. Survivor skill building caps out at a pretty low ceiling and aside from learning some killer specific strats that honestly really come together when the entire team does them right, you've essentially peaked.
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This sums up pretty much everything I think, thank you.
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Yes, but the skill in high level survivor play doesn't manifest itself in the way the community expects it to or thinks it should. When you get into really high level survivor vs killer or even comp level play, survivor becomes much more about positioning, decision-making, and communication (when applicable).
Part of that decision-making is knowing when and what to try and loop. But you have to remember that just because you can loop something doesn't mean you should against a high level killer. Taking a hit at an otherwise safe pallet is a terrible play when you can pre-drop and be safe. And you need understand where you are on the map and where to run. If you extend the chase, are you taking the killer towards a gen in progress while Ruin is up? Are you going down inside of a 3 gen? Am I going to go down near basement or do I need to run to a corner to make sure I can't go basement? Should I jump in a locker instead of taking a hit so the killer can't slug me and pressure a nearby gen? Etc. Those are the types of things that go into high level/comp survivor and I guarantee 90% of players never think about that stuff.
I'm not entirely sure why the community at large hasn't caught on to that fact after 6 years. Maybe a lot of that falls on content creators pushing the narrative that the only valid skill for survivors is looping/chase. Who knows.
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The "problem" with this game is that doing something neat doesn't neccessarily rewards you. In fact, your "skilled" plays can be shut down by opponents doing something pretty basic.
That is why I stopped taking this game seriously in competetive sense.
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Wow, judging from the comments I guess we all can play like Ayrun or Probzz. It's just that easy.
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It takes more skill than killer, if you ask me. There are a lot of subtle things that people overlook.
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Nurse isn't that difficult. Billy is harder, for example.
I don't play blight so can't tell
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A little bit, but not much. Basic vg skill.
For me, this breaks down to a semantic issue - what is skill? How are we defining it.
If you consider accrued/learned game knowledge (how to run tiles, map layouts, game mechanics) a skill, then absolutely. I would say that is 99.9% of being successful at DBD. This is also why my position is that DBD is a game where experience/play time is the best predictor of success.
If your talking about reflex, quick twitch ability, quick, adaptive thinking, and manual dexterity/muscle memory, then DBD requires relatively little skill at all. Just basic vg skill that most moderately experienced gamers have.
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Definitely. As stated above, people quite often overlook positioning, decision making and tactical thinking over straight forward obvious displays such as looping. If people don't think it requires skill try to get to Iridescent One as solo queue, not SWF, solo without having your head explode from frustration.
I do agree, though, the skill floor is higher but the skill ceiling is lower than killer. However, anyone who says survivor doesn't require any skill is incorrect.
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I think playing surv is by far more difficult than playing killer. It’s more difficult 4 escapes than 4 kills
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Love how the salty killers who most likely get destroyed regularly say no
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Memes aside, yes. If survivors get downed ten seconds after the Killer starts chasing them, it doesn't matter how many second chance perks they have or how well they spread out and crank out gens they are all going to die well before the exit gates are powered up. Try holding W and/or predropping pallets against a good Blight. He'll just slide around and 180 slap you right onto the hook.
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Well you're entitled to your opinion. Some people think the earth is flat, too.
But seriously, a 4E is not something you should have as a win condition, as you can only control yourself. You are one of four, the killer is one of one. People trying to ensure a 4E are often what leads to a 4K.
To me, sacrifice is a big part of the surv experience.
But this is really a separate convo from the topic.
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Survivor gameplay is as difficult as the killer makes it.
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Yes, there is some skill when playing survivor.
You have to know map layouts and how to properly loop to last long in a chase. You have to know when to save someone. You have to know where the generators are so you don't 3 gen. So yes, there is some skill involved when playing survivor.
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Everyone should know survivor requires skill. Both sides require a lot of skill.
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They do require bunch of micro skills, while killers require micro skills AND macro skills.
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Survivors can fake killers and killers can fake survivors. Everything after that is up to perks not skill.
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It does take skill and anyone who thinks otherwise is most certainly a killer-only player. Killer does take more skill, but that doesn't mean survivor takes no skill. Survivor has to have knowledge of all the killer's and how to approach their chase, how to run certain loops and how to read mindgames as well, and how to efficiently do the objective in the correct way to avoid certain win situations for killer.
Sure, holding m1 on a gen is super easy, but that isn't all you do as a survivor. As a killer main (70/30 with survivor) and survivor is definitely more skillful than people give credit. Maybe it is because most people on here, twitter, or subreddit are bad at killer too, so survivor must be SUPER easy, right? /s
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Understanding your distances very well so you can milk loops for time
Having good knowledge of what you have to work with and how you could chain tiles together to save resources
Completely understanding how killer powers work/how to avoid them and whether or not a decision you make will get you hit or not by them
Being efficient on gens and making sure 3 gens are never something you have to worry about
Knowing how to play around killer perks/addons
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Hi there I would like you to meet someone....
This is Leon....and he has something called flashbangs. I bet you two will be good friends.
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Playing survivor definitely takes skill and I say that as a killer main. There is definitely a skill spectrum among survivors I face. Some I can trounce, some seem to know basic but make mistakes at loops that I can take advantage of, some are good loopers but overly altruistic or focus too much on trying to get me to chase them or going to gimmick plays rather than doing gens, and some survivors are clearly skilled and can beat me at loops and if I don’t continuously pressure them also stay on the gens and remain useful to their overall goal of getting out.
And on the flip side, since I hardly ever play survivor, the few times I do I can immediately tell I’m terrible. I miss skill checks sometimes, I mistime vaults, I have trouble using the third person camera, I’m just bad all around because I don’t practice it. Mentally I know enough that I still get more done than someone who is brand new (I know when to stay on gens, I know to try and run away from gens if I’m chased, I know not to immediately run to a rescue the instant someone is hooked, etc.) But I’m definitely in the low skill part of the spectrum as a survivor.
So yes, playing survivor definitely takes skill. You can debate how much time it takes to develop enough skill to be a top notch survivor, whether survivors are easier or harder to learn than killers, or whether the game as a whole is easier to learn than other multiplayer competitive games. But this absolutely isn’t a skillless game, the great majority of matches are decided by player skill and player misplays, not by all the “balance issues” people bring up on the forums which only really impact the upper skill tiers where misplays are rare.
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Most survivor skill is expressed in chase only. Which is why when survivors play long enough they only care about chasing. The primary skill expressed is the ability to chain structures together to extend chase for as long as possible. The secondary skills expressed are more mechanical, such as knowing how best to snap into a window to get a fast vault every time, knowing how much time you have exactly to still get the pallet stun without getting hit through it, etc.
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Yes. Both sides take skill.
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Nah, it's getting easier and easier
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I acknowledged flash bangs, but they're gimmicky and more importantly, there needs to be more utility.
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Survivor takes skill and most survivors don't have skill, game will be balanced around survivors not having skill.
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Survivor requires map knowledge and more like a "should I leave this gen to go for the save?" Rather than skill that is in solo queue, for swf it is not as demanding, it is more of a map knowledge rather than thinking.
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True true...and as Killer they are easy to dodge because you can hear the pin being pulled and tossed.
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nothing in this game does. anyone can run around pallets and press space. this goes for killer too.
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Since the SBMM itself does not require skill to make it to higher MMR, I pretty much doubt anything in this game require skill. No matter the side.
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you can find success as survivor playing in low skill, low risk, high reward ways
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The statement that survivor gameplay requires no skill is rather unfair and overtly simplistic. At its core, you need to learn and master many skills and techniques: how to loop, how the tilesets work, how the killers powers work, where the gen spawns are etc.
If you are good at the game and got all this down, you could play without perks and be pretty effective. And this is were the problems start: there is a second chance perk for most situations. With the right mix you got 3 second chances or pseude-extra health stats, on top of the fat self heals that CoH is providing nowadays.
Add to this the abundance of strong met kits and tools boxes that let gens fly by at astronomical speeds, and you double or tripple stacked the game against the killer.
High level survivor gameplay is far from brain dead, but you got so many crutches, second chances and strong helpers, on top of the general knowledge of how to do stuff in the most efficient and fast way, that survivors have a long time ago taken the power role from the killer.
And it doesn't help that many design choices are relics of the past. The supposed strongest killer perks are shoved into he Hex category, which marks them as prime targets and easily removed from the game by experienced survivors. A lot of killer perks can be removed or outright countered by survivor perks or items and the cumulative result of all this is that many killers lash out in the last option left to them: tunneling a survivor out asap.
This in itself solidifies the survivors POV that they need all this second chance perks, that they shouldn't play without them, as the killers are not playing fairly.
Its a vicious circle and one that can only be broken by some bold moves and redisigns on BHVRs side. Let's hope that they don't make true on their words and remove tunneling by hitting the killers with the stick, but by devising some other system, that's the carrot.
If you gave killers some baseline buff system like Devour Hope, that gave stacks of repair and heal slowdown, of killers moved away from the hook, then killers could play much more relaxed and how they used to.
Only time will tell how BHVR tackles this problem. But let's stay positive :)
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