Killer-mains that switched to Survivor-Mains, what problem became apparent for survivors
I still play both sides but usually am playing more survivor games now because friends want to join me.
- I think one major theme I see now as survivor, that I never thought about as killer. I feel like I'm forced to always take Decisive Strike because there has been so many games, where I literally couldn't play because there's a lot of killers that will tunnel-off-hook-till-dead survivors, if you don't run it.
- Face-Camping Leatherface, I can almost guarantee that Leatherface is going to camp if I play against him.
Comments
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Agree 100% with DS and Bubba. Especially if you're playing with anything less than a 4 man SWF, you pretty much need DS.
I used to play 70 killer/30 survivor, but I'm closer to 50/50 now. In general, I think I've realized just how rough solo queue is. It desperately needs changes. Zero baseline information may have worked at launch relative to launch killers and their power level, but it just doesn't work now. Killers and their perks are strong enough now to warrant information in solo queue without sacrificing perk slots.
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- I don´t run DS. Playing without it doesn´t feel like an issue at all.
- Just played against a Bubba who downed me after running him for 4 gens. Got unhooked from David with BT, David went to the hook, Bubba downed 2 survivors that tried to unhook him. Meanwhile i finished the last gen, picked up Mikaela and unhooked David, while Bubba hooked Nancy. Managed to unhook Nancy and open the exit gate. Got downed right in front of the exit. Was a good game, despite dying.
- Gens go to fast. I barely have time to bless/cleanse totems to prevent NOE
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Yeah Leatherfaces are almost always a guaranteed camp so I just stopped caring about unhooks and resorted sticking to the gens.
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Bond works like a charm. It gives me so much information on who is nearby, who is being chased and where, etc. For me its the best perk for solos.
Oh and i think we get to much baseline information. When there is a Hex involved, Undying, Ruin, Exposed, Overwhelming, etc. All perks or status effects that give no surprise at all, since you get the baseline information. From there, a decent survivor can count the killers perks in order to know what loadout he has. For example, the Obsession Tentacles (or whatever that is around the survivors picture). Tells everyone that the Obsession is being chased. It was made baseline, because killers would tunnel when it wasn´t around, since DS also wasn´t around.
I´d prefer to play without all this information overload.
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My last two Bubba games end up with me on a hook getting smacked with a mallet.
I just wish teammates would do gens instead of watching the beating.
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Playing survivor and looping decently isnt't braindead, but needs to develop its own skill set :) (btw, I never said that, but you read that sooo often on this forums).
Using DH properly is also something that isn't as braindead as many killer-only-mains make it seem, even though it still is the most powerful perk available to survivors and I made it a matter of pride to not use it. Not using DH, but relying on some other exhaustion perk really helps you to grow as a survivor and git gud much faster, because DH still can cover for a lot of mistakes.
Also, keys ... what a keys? Getting the hatch challenge from tome 2 is a nightmare for me :D I wasn't around during the time when keys were OP, and I have seen a few videos of that time, but nowadays keys are a joke. If you ever see a survivor running keys in the lobby, just let them be and close the hatch for them. That extra kill won't be that important, but the hatch challenge is soo dumb.
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Honestly. Survivors bish about anything. Seriously. Not turning it to an us vs them but when i play with people who never plays killer they are the absolute most annoying entitled pos in the game.
We do 4 gens before he catches someone "ugh look at this trash killer who camps". We "gen rush" and dont cleanse. "Of course this trash killer has noed". Seriously. The difference of entitlement ive seen is astonishing. To the point i go out my way to tell people off. Esp the ones who never played killer.
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Its not really much of a problem for survivors but I've seen how many options they have to do something different regarding perks and items. As a killer your perks can make or break your experience, but as a survivor you can bring anything and not really have the general game loop change. One game I could try going for flashbang blinds, the next I could have a dedicated healing build, and another game I could try bringing a looping build.
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I still play both sides, but after being a ruthless killer for two years, I switched to a 50/50 player a couple years back. I think the biggest thing I learned was that both sides want to have fun. And playing for only arbitrary numbers of kills and escapes removes the compassion for the plight of the other side.
So, now I play as "fair" as possible without completely cucking myself. I am not concerned if a 4k turns into a 2k because I chose to be a bit more compassionate to other players. I won't use map offerings because I am not making a killer play on a map that we all know from experience is unfun.
IN short, my motto is , Play how I would like to verse. If I don't like it, I don't do it to others.
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The more I play Survivor, the more I realize how similar Killers are. The only ones that stand out are Twins, Blight, Hag and Nurse. The remaining Killers are either M1 Killer that can be looped normally, or are hard countered by ShiftW, or both
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I was also a killer main that only played killer. Switched to about 50/50 when SBMM came out. There's actually quite a few things I learned.
1. Although not as easy as I originally thought, it didn't take me long to learn looping as a survivor.
2. Kinda have to agree that playing killer your build and choice of killer, as well as map rng can make or break your chances of doing well. Where as with survivor I have a lot more options without really feeling hindered. Even when not using meta perks. But using the meta perks I can see why killers complain. Having to hit someone 3-4 times before getting to hook them once can seem a bit much.
3. I don't get tunneled out or camped nearly as much as I thought I would. It still happens, but it's maybe 1 in 5 games, and it's usually because 3-4 gens are already done.
4. The difference in power at different stages of the match. At the beginning survivors really have all the power and control the flow of the match. But vice versa, if one survivor is killed at 4-5 gens or disconnects, it can feel very difficult to play. So I understand why some killers choose to go that route.
5. Windows of opportunity showed me how unbalanced and safe certain maps can be with how tiles spawn up. Being able to see 8-10 pallets and 4 windows in just a 32m area, that's a lot of safety to be used. Not to mention all the other stuff available on the rest of the map.
6. I never felt hindered as a survivor going to a certain map. I've noticed there's maps that certain survivors dislike due to personal choice. But I've never spawned into a map and been like, okay this is going to be a tough map to do well on. With killers you have certain killer/map combinations where you can't even use your power. It's made worse if you're playing someone like huntress or deathslinger where you have slower movement and don't even get to use your power. That's not something survivors have to worry about.
7. SWF does not mean good. I've played a lot of both solo and in a full squad. I've noticed that most of the time we don't even talk about the game unless it's to say we're in chase or if there's ruin or something. And most of the people I've played with still run kindred. Just because they're a team, doesn't make them good.
8. I've noticed a lot of survivors, even those on my team, that have decent or okay micro gameplay, meaning they understand how to work on gens, running certain loops, stuff like that. But they have absolutely atrocious macro gameplay.
9. Solo queue is bad, but not as bad as you think. Yes there's the DCs and people killing themselves on first hook, but it's not as common as bad as people say. But it does happen. But mostly it's the mindset and the expectation people have. They play with their friends, then go into solo queue expecting to be able to rely on other people or think that these random players are going to have the same skill set that they have, and they just don't. You have to change your mindset when going into solo queue. If your goal is escaping and pipping, it doesn't make sense to sacrifice yourself for that random person to escape. Can you save them and you both or all get out reliably? No? Then just leave. I see it happen a lot. Survivors will feed 3-4 kills over to a killer trying to keep them from getting a single kill lol it doesn't make sense.
10. Survivors complain, a lot. I've noticed this even with playing with a bunch of different people. There's about 10-12 of use that all play together. And they will complain non stop about how a killer is being sweaty, or they brought in a super sweaty build, when in reality they didn't camp or tunnel, and their build was brown or yellow add-ons with huntress lullaby, unrelenting, and like brutal strength or something. In reality they just played better. Some of these people I just won't play with anymore because they get super toxic as soon as they start playing, to the point where they'll just report people constantly. And there's tons of people like this. I remember playing one match where the killer killed 3 people and the last one was on death hook, and we were at 3 gens left. Like they just straight up beat us. The last guy, hatch spawn right next to him, so he waited on top of hatch until the killer arrived so that he could teabag him over and over and over again. When I asked why, he was like, "Because I want him to feel like ######### and know that I beat him." I was like, but we didn't lol we got our butts whooped. You got a pity hatch that RNG spawned in front of you I've even asked other survivors why they teabag at the exit Gates instead of leaving. They're like, "Cause we want him to know we beat him." Keep in mind, these are the same types of people that get mad when a killer hits them on hook. It just goes to show how toxic people in this community can be, and how they'll go out of this way to make other people feel like crap, just to ruin their day and gameplay experience.
11. I've also noticed that survivors don't understand the point of looping. Even I started getting into this mindset and had to stop myself lol it's contagious. They think they should be able to loop every killer for 5 gens and when they can't or if they go down quickly, they get tilted and start accusing them of being sweaty or of certain killers being broken. Even if it's something like nemesis or clown. Looping isn't meant to be a means for you to bully killers. It's meant to waste as much of the killer's time as possible. It's great if you can loop a killer for 5 gens, but if you're able to do that every game obviously there'd be a balance issues.
12. They killed the ambiance/atmosphere for this game, that horror element. I feel this much more as a survivor than a killer. It doesn't feel like an asymmetrical horror game. It feels like an asymmetrical action party game. And the more they remove the dark gritty atmosphere, and give aura reading for almost everything, knowledge of the killer's whereabouts at all times, the more it completely kills this once loved aspect of the game.
TBH there's not really anything that I felt was just weak when playing survivor. I stopped taking DS as a perk because I'd rarely get to use it. Maybe like once in 20 games. The only thing that could maybe be worked on is the difference in communication when in solos. But at the same time, more information would probably just take even more away from the horror aspect of the game.
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I used to play killer only for my first 1.5 - 2 years in this game. Now I would say I'm 70/30 in favor of survivor. I only play solo's and still find it more fun than killer. Solo's eat up killers all day as long as the team does there part (Safe unhooks, work gens, don't go down in 20 secs or less, etc). It's not that I can't win as killer because I do....the issue is the amount of work/focus I need to do it these days ruins the fun factor for me. Games are supposed to be fun and relaxing after a hard days work and killer is the opposite of that.
Sure solo's can be rough if you get a string of new players, throwers, bush dwellers, hook farmers, etc but for the most part I am very successful as a solo survivor. So successful that I can't imagine how a SWF feels about this game. That should get boring quick dominating all day with little effort but to each their own I guess.
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i didnt switch to maining survivor so technically this post doesnt apply to me, but the main issue with survivor imo is that you cant win (escape) and also have fun 99% of the time
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I have to admit, I thought most survivors were throwing their games because they were bad, now I realize these survivor archive challenges are just so insanely ridiculous and you have to throw if you want them done in a timely manner.
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Totally different issue. Just because someone might not know how to use the tools doesn't mean they shouldn't have them to begin with
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This is mostly my survivor experience also.
I think a lot of the issues from a survivor perspective stem from wanting a PUG to be as viable as a coordinated SWF. Any MMO will demonstrate immediately that a PUG is never as viable as an organised pre-made group.
Wanting game mechanics to make it so that a teamwork PUG is just as viable as SWF in every game for every killer is really really silly and makes for some bad game design that really dilutes the horror experience.
I also find the sore loserism to be heavily magnified on the survivor end. Yeah you get salty killers I mean everyone is a human and can get tilted but its just so much more pronounced on the survivor side of things.
I get it that an angry killer has more tools to punish a group of survivors and when they do its often thematic and therefore less stark than survivors railing on killers. But the amount of salt even when survivors win is just unbelievable and grossly disproportionate to the 4 to 1 role ratio.
Its kinda saddening and turns me off playing survivor a lil.
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Biggest issue I see is fellow survivors abandoning teamwork for a set role;
Like the one that brings a flashlight but refuses to do anything other than follow the killer even when the rest of us are looping to well to go down
Other than that I find it easy enough that second chance perks are unnecessary.
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Having gone against crazy survivor teams, I was disappointed how rare it was for me to get those teams. The matchmaking needs to be improved. MMR can work, but escapes isn't a good enough indicator of skill. I could go some games without seeing the killer until the very end. Or it could be that the killer is chasing me for a total of like 3 minutes in a game, I die, yet we're not even down to 1 gen. Why am I getting matched with such unoptimal survivors?
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DS is just another hook state, you will die if killer want you to die.
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You nailed the first two.
Right now, I consider Bubba to need HARD nerfs. His facecamping is ridiculous, and not only that, but his chase ability is too strong. Why can he destroy pallets so quickly with such a little delay? Why can he swing his chainsaw so many times? Why can he insta down from the start of the match without having to charge it or stalk you? and it's AOE? I have so many complaints about Bubba. He is the definition of a toxic killer that is NOT fun for 4 people in his match.
Yes, the tunneling is a problem too. I suggest DS should be basekit on all survivors, just to take the game into a direction where it's more fun for everyone.
Another problem, is Doctor's AOE ability. He never has to look for anyone. And the Nurse being so unstoppable in the hands of a good Nurse.. she can go through walls and pallets like #########?
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Honestly, the main thing I noticed was just that repairing gens is boring. Playing as killer it feels like they go really fast; playing as survivor, it feels like they take eight million years.
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No means of communication / conveying information in solo queue. Most balance / design issues can be traced back to this seed.
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you turned it into an us vs them
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Yet killers who get outplayed and want a 4k every game aren't entitled at all. I get it, survivor bad, killer good.
"Do bones, lol" - "But, but, but muh ruin"
"Look at this survivor looping me. Such braindead gameplay. It's definitely not that I'm being outplayed. I get 0 kills every single game and never win a chase so it couldn't possible be that looping requires skill and some survivors are just significantly better than others, no way"
"Camping and tunneling are legit strategies, so how dare survivors use legit strategies and perks like DS and BT to counter"
"Flashlights are broken. Survivors should not be able to use a limited resource and perfect timing to free their teammate"
Everything a survivor does is either braindead, toxic or OP. You can spend 5 minutes on this forum and conclude that Killers hate survivors and you would easily get the impression that playing survivor is the easiest thing in the world. But sure, when someone says they've played "x" amount of hours as a killer and has reached "x" conclusion, they've "clearly never played killer before lol" or "bait post", but when a killer says they've played "x" amount of hours as survivor and it's just SOOOOOO EZZZZZ, it was etched in the ######### commandments and is religious law.
Honestly this is one of the most toxic communities of any game I've ever seen. Absolutely nobody can have an opinion about anything and it's disgusting. Nobody just playing the game and having an opinion on a topic is entitled. However, coming on a forum where people can express their opinions and calling them entitled for having an opinion is EXTREMELY entitled. Nobody's opinion is objectively correct. That's why they are opinions.
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The biggest problem is how popular it has become to just camp the first survivor to death and sacrifice the game just for a single kill or two. Its insanely boring. IMO they should raise the amount of time each hook state lasts or make DS activate twice.
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It just doesn't work.
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Honestly Bubba is not very oppressive in chase. Looping him is the same as Demo. You gotta bait the pallet drop, especially when he's charging his chainsaw. It's just like you do with Demo and his shred except Bubba catching you with his chainsaw is much much slower. In my opinion, he is one of the easiest killers to loop. Just don't get caught in a dead zone otherwise you will be screwed.
As for his face camping....eh. I've pulled it off a few times with BT. Sometimes you can bait the unhook over and over until their chainsaw overheats then get the save. Or if the do charge up the chainsaw, they either have to commit to you and lose the unhook or cancel their power. There are certainly ways of dealing with it, but it can be really difficult to execute.
Instead of nerfs, I think BT just needs to be buffed so that the savior can get the endurance effect. Camping in general is a huge problem in this game. Sure, it's a legit strategy, but the tactic artificially boosts the killers MMR causing them to go against SWFs who will just steamroll them when they try to camp because they're coordinated for it then get mad that "survivors OP". It's not that they're OP, it's just that those tactics will not work on better survivors who are coordinated.
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I don't think I fully understood just how easy it is for people playing survivor to sabotage their teammates. Seriously, the amount of times I'm on death hook and see a teammate run towards me with the killer in tow to avoid being hooked for the first time, it's insane. Horribly unsafe "saves" that don't even come with the comfort of BT giving you a chance, and BMing if you dare to remove a dull totem rather than boon it.
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The entire game needs to be looked at, to revamp and redesign every killer and survivor so that it is FUN for both sides. There's way too many toxic perks and gameplay in this game. I am still shocked the developers thought it was a good idea to say "survive together.. or don't" and promote toxic solo gameplay. That makes NO sense in a game that relies on teammates to unhook you and work together to do objectives. There needs to be overhauls.
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Tryhard blights are much worse than old tryhard spirit ever use to be, honestly at least IW gave you a chance vs old spirit but blight with all his busted stuff and slowdowns is just a downright boring snoozefest.
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That argument would hold weight if Killers didn't use the "I'm camping and tunneling because this needs nerfed" argument for everything. It's basically Killers trying to bully the developers into nerfing a survivor perk, tactic or item by telling developers they're going to camp and tunnel survivors until it's nerfed.
- Decisive Strike - "I'm camping and tunneling because this needs nerfed"
- Circle of Healing - "I'm camping and tunneling because this needs nerfed"
- Map Size - "I'm camping and tunneling because this needs nerfed"
- Looping - "I'm camping and tunneling because this needs nerfed"
I think what actually needs to happen is Camping and Tunneling need nerfed so they can't be used by Killers as a way to bully Developers by threatening 4/5's of the player bases fun.
When you have a tactic that you know ruins 4/5's of the player bases fun and can use it as a threat against the developers, it seems to me like those two tactics need a serious looking at.
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You literally did take a constructive post up until your comment & turned it into an us versus them. Saying you're not doesn't abstain you from the fact.
Either join the previous posts in a healthy conversation or pipe down.
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These ‘drop x pallets in a chase’ challenges drive me insane. I try to do it organically (no matter how many games it takes) but I can’t do anything about solo queue teammates who drop 90% of the pallets in the first 3 minutes. Suddenly it’s your turn to get chased and every corner of the map is a deadzone. 😭
I can’t fault them for trying to get it done as quickly as possible but damn at least bring Gideon and any means necessary and save some for the rest of us.
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I'm saying it's pretty obvious at this point that "I'm camping and tunneling because this needs nerfed" is a threat against the developers.
It's perfectly fine to say, "Maps are too large for low mobility killers." But why do you need to add in the "I'm camping and tunneling because this needs nerfed". To me, that sounds like a threat. Don't you think that sounds like a threat at that point.
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As someone who normally plays solo survivor I feel like DS is a bit overrated. I only ever use it for tomes and if I think my build will get me tunneled. I recommend Windows of Opportunity and Kindred before making a habit out of relying on DS or Unbreakable. BT is always a solid choice though.
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Face-camping Leatherface is probably the most game-breaking situation there is right now.
There's simply no correct play around it, one person is guaranteed to lose their whole game just because the person behind the killer doesn't want to play the game.
You can rush gens but really, everyone leaves with low points, low emblems, and nobody except the douche playing bubba enjoys it.
It's especially annoying as a solo player as there's also no fixing the idiot teammates who think they're the one exception that can get the save without trading or just adding to the deaths.
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I play both sides. Hell i admit i get toxic in middle of the game. Not ever gonna deny it. And youre right. Some loops are just so braindead is frustraiting. For example the stupid truck loop that is so short but yet a killer can barely catch up. Its pretty dumb. Its essentially running a circle around a truck. Scary movie did something like that.
Now i played 3k hours. 1k of which was on console. Horrible experience really. Dont recommend. Esp not playing killer. Mnk is better. Besides the point and off topic.
Both sides are toxic.
I mean there is that to counter your argument about killers think everything survs do is op toxic and etc. I mean i have a screen shot of people mad i camped a gen. yep. A gen. So no. Killers are entitled but survivors take it to another level in my 3k hours. A good 2k of it is playing killer.
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I might of. Sorry but really it gets bad sometimes. Want to see some funny screenshots of the "surv" community? (Mostly ps. Cause hoooly fk that console gets toxic).
I know i seem biased but i play both sides. More surv than killer lately but yikes
Also. To clarify. It was my problem from switching to killer to surv. The entitlement of my surv friends and absolute trash talking the killer like they arent human. As someone who been a killer only main. It frustrates me to see
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*looks at image*
Yeah... kinda cringe... I'm glad that I don't engage with these people.
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DS is almost necessarry and even when they do eat the DS they still try to tunnel lmao
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I promise you that you don't ever NEED to camp. Camping just but you at a standstill because you're not really playing the game and you're not learning how to get better. I know a lot of people use "i dont want to sweat my ass off" as a cop out for it, but I promise you don't have to. I guarantee that if you take the actual time to improve and accept the losses that come with that, you will have far more fun than worrying about getting t-bagged at a pallet.
I also find it really ironic that you say the game needs to be "fun for both sides", but then say that killers should receive no negative changes and survivors should receive no positive ones. Double DS would actually be a really good way at preventing tunneling. Now that the perk isn't abusable there's literally no issue with it unless you tunnel hardcore.
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Thats pretty spot on, fam! But being a survivor main I doubt pretty much anything you say, so uhm, do bones?
Jokes aside, I think some of the problems stem from the rather long time that the game is active and evolving. Certain mechanics were once designed with whatever in mind, and after a year or two, when everything is well established, they throw a perk out there that totally turns that mechanic on its head and everyone goes bonkers about it. After a few weeks of raging about the new stuff most people settle back to their tried and true meta build, while some people always pack the new toys, because thats their jam, and so the effectivenes of every mechanic in the game can varry wildely from game to game, depending if someone has the counter perk to it.
CoH is the newest offender and shook the whole hin&run meta through. Now its sorta a new meta perk, but the underlying mechanics are old as the game itself. Dead Man Switch/Dead Lock can have a similar effect with certain killers. The demand for new stuff means that we get at least 3 new perks for each side four times a year, and the whole system, no matter how robust it is, has to carry this weight of countless combinations.
The new perks also are a sort of arms race. Your side has this thing that the other hate and eventually they get a perk to counter it. No your side wines to no end until they get some toys to counter the other side. "Ha, this pistol is great. Pew. Pew" "Ha, this armor is great, the pistol cant get through! Charge!" and eventually both sides are just chucking bombs at each other and complain about "where are the good old times of honest fun? These days everyone is just bringing bombs to the table!"
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Nothing? I always have fun playing survivor. People complain about solo queue but most of the time it doesn't bother me. The only real issue is the queue times otherwise I'd never play killer.
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Queue times.
I'll literally take massive killer buffs, if it means that I won't have to wait 10 minutes to get into a game.
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Aside from idiot teammates throwing the game by being idiot teammates, my experience has been overwhelmingly positive. It's not nearly as stressful when you don't have to worry about every step you take and every move you make.
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Without being rude, one of the problems I see is that some killers aren't as good as they think they are, nothing wrong with being bad in a videogame but they will never improve if all certain killers do is facecamp.
Another problem that I see for survivors is these days, DS is a must because of the relentless tunnel.
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Facecamping is the optimal strategy most of the time, like it or not. Unless you think tourney players are bad at the game?
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I'd say proxy camping is, but actually staring right into the survivor's baby blues whole they hang out? Your denying yourself visual information by having the body of the survivor centered in your sight. Unless you're playing bubba, the slight speed advantage towards would be saviours just isn't worth the lost information on where they are, imo.
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That is precisely what they did during the most recent swish tourney. Unless you think going six meters away from the hook is proxy and not face camping. I'd qualify it as facecamping, since the effect is identical.
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6 meters away? Yeah, that's a proxy in my book. Unless you are close enough to slap the survivor on the hook, it's a proxy
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