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Interesting points about destroyed hooks upon sacrifice
Many people think that it's a necessity that hooks be destroyed permanently after a survivor gets sacrificed on it. I am not one of them. I think it's dumb that it happens, and that there's no good reason for it to be a thing.
First of all, the devs have actually created mechanics contrary to this other mechanic of theirs. Old Hangman's Trick brought the hooks back. But more importantly basement hooks can never be destroyed. The one thing I've seen in favor of hooks being destroyed forever is "It stops killers from just camping one area!" I wonder what their thoughts are about basement hooks then, since they can't be destroyed and are the best hooks for camping in the game. I don't see masses of people saying "get rid of basement!" but I do see a ton of people downplaying the negative affects of hooks being destroyed permanently.
If that's the case, that hooks being destroyed is to stop camping, then why do killers still do it after one or a few have been broken? And why are killers that didn't camp punished later in the game, albeit mostly when they've already won, by no nearby hooks being available and the survivor struggling out? Why can it be so difficult to hook someone that you've spent the time and effort to down?
I really think hooks shouldn't disappear forever when someone gets sacrificed. There's no need for it. All it does is frustrate the killer and create unnecessary resource management.
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It's also worse when you sacrifice a survivor on a Scourge hook and lose it permanently. Avoidable yes but sometimes we forget.
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It's especially annoying as (while rare), there are survivors where all they do is run into the areas with the now broken hooks (and given some of the maps and sometimes awful RNG luck, you can get areas where ONLY one hook is available to you).
It doesn't happen enough where I'm going to get my pitchfork out and demand that BHVR changes the mechanic but it does seem silly now to have that kind of a mechanic. Maybe there is a really good reason for it though and I just don't know it...
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People do call for basement to be reworked, actually.
Opinion: If you can't manage hook loss, it's a you problem, and not a game problem.
Hooks getting destroyed upon sacrifice is a mechanic designed to make killers put thought into where and when they sacrifice survivors.
Is it outdated? I doubt it.
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Fwiw, I hate basement, even though it can be used to avoid hook loss on sacrifice. I think it’s outdated and encourages camping/tunneling more than anything else and overall doesn’t add much else to the game.
Having said that, I never understood the reason why hooks break forever on a sacrifice. It doesn’t happen often, but you don’t always have a ton of options as to where you hook people, and if survivors can run to some corner of the map that’s now a hook deadzone and you can’t do anything with them, that sucks and I don’t know how it’s still a thing.
I would even be okay with them still breaking after a sacrifice but only for a limited amount of time (1 or 2 minutes maybe).
Basically, I think it’s a bad mechanic, but isn’t a big enough problem/doesn’t create issues often enough for bhvr to actually change it.
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Stay away from the basement and you avoid everyone screaming "get rid of basement"
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okay, ill play devils advocate here:
what if a 4 man SWF searches out a corner of a map where there is only one, maybe two available hooks in and then purposely all go down in that one corner? after one, max two sacrifices they have forced a hook deadzone uppon the Killer who is now forced to down them and slowly bleed them out. now introduce Perks such as No Mither or Unbreakable and we got ourselves a game that is very needlessly stretched out, with both sides essentially dying from boredom.
and thats not because the killer had "poor ressource management".
fact is, the Killer is not the one deciding where a chase goes, thats ultimately the Survivors decision. So if they always run off into the same corner (or upper floor of a main building such as the Thompson House), there isnt a whole lot the Killer can do about it.
is that really a healthy mechanic to have in your game? i doubt it.
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Basement needs cosmetics. All basements should have water on the floor. Cause you know dark and dingy.
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I think the game would be better with no basement and without the hooks breaking for good when someone is killed. I think they're both out of date mechanics.
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Why in HFIL would you let them go down in the same corner? If it looks like they're trying to pull shenanigans, and it will be fairly obvious if they're trying this, then they can be slugged while you go find someone else. And if they choose to bleed out for the rest of the match, then that's their own stupid choice.
Unbreakable means they get up once, then they've wasted it on a meme, and there's no reasonable way that a No Mither player makes it into a dead zone if they aren't already sitting in it.
Also, you're using a coordinated 4stack bully squad looking to stall out the game for a meme as your primary example. The chances of running into idiots like this is thankfully low.
6/10 on your worst-case-scenario example. Good idea, but has too many assumptions of incompetence and moving parts to be a standard situation.
Maybe I'm just being an elitist though. I remember what it was like to play with hooks that would be broken forever when sabotaged--only losing hooks when you kill a survivor is a cake walk in comparison.
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Hangman's trick should let hooks used for sacrifice come back again. I'm not sure why they would ever change that, it's already a trash perk.
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And some will argue "if your scourge hook gets destroyed, that's okay because you have 3 more and now it's a 3v1". Small comfort for killers who just lost their only close-by scourge hook, and now have little or no gen defence.
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Yeah it mostly happens at the end when you've hooked 2 or 3 people in the same corner of the map, and now you're at the last survivor's mercy for whether they let you get a hook or not. That should absolutely be another sacrifice, but because they abused the hook dead zone, you lose all sacrifice points on that survivor as they bleed out. I don't think it's okay. It's actually a really bad design flaw, like "how did this even survive the beta in this state?" kind of stuff.
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How is it my fault if survivors just so happen to go down in the same area, and now I can't hook the other 1 or 2 because there are no hooks nearby? Should killers be forced to run Agitation or think twice before every hook "I might need this hook for later". That's extra pressure on the killer that they absolutely do not need. It's a resource management game that doesn't need to be there.
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Assuming the hooks aren't terribly spaced out, you can actually get a lot of good info from Hangman's. It's still a less consistent BBQ though.
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tbh I never heard anyone complain about hooks being destroyed. And destroying basement hooks would be redundant as there are 4 of them. So what?
Where did you get the information that it is to avoid camping? Killers camp the survivor, not the hook. Doesn't matter which hook they are on
And I seriously don't think that "hook management" is something hard to do. You pick up survivors often enough to get an idea of hook spawning. If after 5-6 hooks and the first sacrifice "all of a sudden" you notice that you cant hook the next survivor, then you messed up way earlier. And honestly I never faced a "lets force a hook deadzone" squad so far
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If it's not hard to do, what's the point of it's existence beside it allows survivors to do some boring abuse?
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Really grasping for straws here
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Loads of people complain. You don't hear them because their complaints get drowned out by all the survivor complaints.
The devs haven't said that it's to avoid camping, to my knowledge. But survivors have said it to justify its existence (or at least they tried* to justify it). Nothing you've said has really justified its existence either.
This is exactly like the 360ing conversation. Yes, at a certain point you just play around it, but you're inserting "phony skill" into places where it's not necessary. Phony skill is something that takes practice or game knowledge, but it's to play around something that shouldn't be a thing in the first place. This even applies to DS having a skill check.
Anyway, I never said SWFs abuse this. That was someone else. I'm saying any survivor can abuse this, even unknowingly, because it's bad design. You're actively punished for hooking survivors as killer even though it's your main objective. And the counterplay to this is slugging, which gives an opportunity for someone to come and pick them up, even though they should have been hooked instead. It's not very fair, is it?
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The lesser talked-about things often reveal bad game design, as is the case here.
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And yet boons can be endlessly replaced.
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I usually don’t run into destroyed hook problems but at the same time yea I don’t get why the hooks are destroyed on sacrifice, there just doesn’t seem to be anything interesting in that mechanic.
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While this might be an issue every 1 in maybe 100 games...
it really does feel unnecessary... kinda like having a basement...
if you don't plan on camping the basement, it's kinda just a slightly further away hook..
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Looks at boilover prenerf
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And thankfully it was nerfed
(though I really don't know what that made it off of PTB)
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I'm honestly surprised that ######### made it out like the survivor side in me was like man this will get abused to hell and back by my friend who like to troll and I was right no joke we had 10+ matches where the killer left(this was before killers started to slug and bleedout survivors) because of multiple people having it I refused to use it as i know how much it sucked to play against that and I preferred to stick with my gen rush build
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*sticked
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I remember facing an agi/Starstruck Nurse on Coldwind who got greedy for a basement hook and Boil Over punished them. It was quite nice.
I also remember the Artist who told my friends + I that we were the reason they game was unfun and we should uninstall if we're going to play like dicks.
I also remember the thirteen killers we made DC because of Boil Over.
I'm so glad it got nerfed.
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Same heck I prefer to use diversion and hide to troll killers which funnily enough had one leave after they swiped over me after checking the locker next to my friend's locker
It was on midwich
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you entirely missed the points i was making though.
"why would i let them go down in that corner?" funnily enough, i already answered that in my first comment - because its not my decision where chases go. i can play around the tile we are on and try to zone you away, but if all they do is Sprintburst towards this corner and hold W until they are there, i wont do anything against that. so whats your suggestion here, just immediately drop every chase that goes in that direction and never down anyone?
"just bleed them out!" / "those perks wont win them the game" - you see, that IS the issue here: they have lost, but i cant actually end the game and move on as i should be able to. i am forced to sit there, waiting for them to slowly bleed out without getting any points for it either. its just unnecessary to have that.
"it doesnt happen often" - you know whats another thing that doesnt happen often? exploit abusers / cheaters. does that make those okay, as you imply it does with this scenario? just because something doesnt happen a lot does not mean it was okay, the fact that it is a possibility itself is proof of poor game design and should be addressed.
and no, you're not being an elitist here. I was around when Iron Grasp was the number 1 Killer meta Perk in the game, i have experienced those sabotage plays myself plenty (on the receiving end) - but just because we've had it worse in the past doesnt mean we shouldnt try to improve the game today.
hooks being permanently destroyed after a sacrifice is nothing but an extremely outdated remainder of those days and there is not much of a reason to keep it in the game.
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And yet killers are faster than survivors.
And yet survivors have smaller hitboxes than killers.
See, I can post off-topic petty complaints too~
If someone's exploiting, then you record and report, you silly goose.
The funny thing about playing killer is that you do control the chase, at least in broad strokes. If it looks like they're going to pull shannanigans, then yes, drop chase--or commit to having a good video full of evidence that you can submit.
If you are that incapable of managing your hooks, then yes, you should be running Agitation. If you're not idly mindful about which hooks you don't have as you play, then you're doing it wrong.
I'll grudgingly accept gripe about the potential of bully squads, but you're literally saying that you're so incapable of monitoring which hooks you're using/used that you're "forced" to not hook survivors. Incompetence is not good reasoning, friend.
... That sounded more accusing than intended. I understand that it's a hypothetical scenario and that you're not that bad at the game--I just had to get it all out--if you'll excuse me, I need to take more cold medication.
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Lol no, I'd rather lose hooks than part with Pinhead's pleasure box/Bubba's secret garden.
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Petty complaint? I was comparing the Hook placement and thought to Boons and not having to do so.
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there are very rare scenarios where if a hook is permanently destroyed, you can't hook someone if they are in a certain spot unless you have a perk, forcing you to slug, which is super cringe imo, but luckily its rare
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four people going to edge of the maps at the start,you can't control it.
dropping the chase does nothing because they will stay there.
See, hooks are so easy to manage in normal gameplay to the point it might as well not be removed and nothing would change, yet it opens up capability to troll and exploit.
What is the good reason to keep it, really.
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I always wiggle when that happens. I want those blood points in the survival category.
Cringe at the grind being such a joke instead.
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