As a killer main, I just realized one way I encourage survivor meta perks.
When I occasionally have a match where someone is proven not to have DH or DS, I immediately prioritize that person as the weak link and drive them out of the game (if not by tunneling, than by target selection later when multiple people scatter off gens).
That person comes out thinking “well, I better DH and DS and let some other non-meta sap take the heat.”
How can we break the cycle??
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By not hardcore tunneling someone that doesn't use meta perks..? Like if you're gonna complain about the meta on either side and then use perks/tactics which do nothing but encourage this meta then you're just a hypocrite lmfao
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Reward killers for going for chases, against multiple survivors and not just 1 or 2 in a row, and not just camping. I don't know how we're gonna do it, but that's what we should do.
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Make kicking gens worth while, make CoH not be unlimited.
As of now there is little reason to do both when you've got a surv ready to die.
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It's capitalizing on a weakness, to be fair. It's still commonly held that if there's no weak link(s) on the survivor team, you lose. Survivors can also capitalize on weakness. "This guy doesn't have Corrupt/Deadlock? Buy us 4 minutes and we're outta here."
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And if you do this only to complain when people are running the meta then you're a hypocrite who forces players 5o use the very things you hate.
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Yeah tbh I only really run meta perks after I go up against a bunch of certain playstyles. DH is the only perk that stays in my build (unless I'm running a certain build for a challenge); DS, BT, UB only show up when I get tired of facing tunnelling, camping, slugging, etc. It's a very broken cycle and BHVR would rather let us fight each other over it than try to fix it.
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Unfortunately the counter to meta can simply be Facecamping as Bubba with big slowdown but that makes people upset by how effective it can be.
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Most people are going to bring whatever gives them the best chance to win out of the options they have available whether you tunnel/camp/gen rush/etc.
Your actions, game to game, are irrelevant to survivor/killer perk choices.
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Killers have the power to make a match fun or sweaty. If they camp and tunnel, survivors will adapt. Its always so strange how killers don't understand their influence in how a match turns out.
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This happens to me a lot, honestly.
The only meta I run is DS, and it's because of this exact situation. The moment you take it off, you get straight tunneled out of the game .
But that is the chicken and the egg state of the game.
Both sides, damned if you do, damned if you don't.
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*runs DS/BT/IW/DH*
*obliterate killer and escape with 20k+*
*immediately switches to Slippery Meat/Bond/Aftercare/Self-Care*
Stuff like that doesn't happen in most cases.
Barring changing stuff to get tome or daily stuff done, most people have a 'set build' or build rotation that they'll use game after game.
People tend to use whatever gives them the best results on a consistent basis, game after game, regardless of role.
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The game would be better if both sides could communicate a bit before hand. Set some parameters on perks and play styles.
Hell, just both sides being able to say "hey, how is your day going" would humanize each other a bit.
Sure, you're always going to have some jerks on either side anyway. But just a quick couple of minutes to chat prior would sort out some of these issues of us v them.
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DS/BT/IW/DH means the survivor only has 2 perks if the killer is playing fairly. DS and BT only do work if the killer is camping or tunneling.
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CoH is NOT unlimited, its limited by the killers ability to snuff it out
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I tunnel someone every match, is the best strategy since MMR release. We can't change survivor mindset so tunnel them and move Next Game .
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This also works the other way around.
The match starts, every survivor starts working on their gen, killer starts chasing one survivor. The map is fresh, all pallets and breakable walls are up. Killer finally downs the survivor - 2 gens pop. You are sitting on your own gen at 98% - do you finish your gen?
What do you think will go on in the killer's head? Maybe, just maybe he would not camp the hook with only 2 gens finished. If you pop your gen too, the killer might think "alright, just another one of these games. why even leave the hook when the match is almost over already?"
Sadly trying to win a match very often contradicts having a fun match.
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...they also do work if the killer actually plays nice/fair, becoming exponentially more powerful in the endgame, allowing free trades/escapes.
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It definitely is limited by that....
Which is why people place it in structures and away from the game's active zones.
It creates a vacation station that has zero risk for the survivor under most conditions, costs the killer massive travel time to get to the totem, and can be reset indefinitely with minimal risk if the survivors are in an advantageous position gen spread/map wise.
CoH often provides multiple advantages by existing in a gen free corner of the map/structure - I don't think enough people realize this.
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And can be re applied an unlimited amount of times.
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Wrong.
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Correct
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Give killers a Devour Hope like effect as base line. Obviously not Devour Hope, but something like "gain an Entity token each time you are 32m away when a survivor gets unhooked", and then each token gives something, like 2 or 3% gen repair speed reduction, or whatever. It needs to be an effect that rewards the killer for playing like most of us want to play, without shooting yourself in the foot.
Normally, when you run away from a hook and ignore it (Devour Hope style), then you get punishes by the survivors who stick to the gens. Tunneling one player out and turning the game into a 3v1 asap is so prolific because you just can't keep up with 4 healthy survivors, unless something goes awefully wrong.
So gen regression, maybe even a few instant percentages instant loss might be a possibility. Or showing some auras if you get your third Entity token.
Or maybe relight a cleansed Hex totem? Imagine how the dynamic of a trial would change if you suddenly regained a Ruin at the last gen and could meaningfully defend your 3 gen as a reward for not tunneling.
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Sorry to say it, but then survivors would just complain about the killer playing fair if you got ruin re lit, lol
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That's what you do at a brain storming event: just throw everything at the table and go wild and imagine things and sometimes you stumble over a really cool, wacky idea that could just work.
Yeah, a relit Ruin would suck in today's meta, but if the killer had hooked everyone twice without killing someone to get it? By that point everyone probably had an awesome game and the survivors were working on their last gen.
But anyways, relit Hexes were just one wild idea, but in general I think that this "Devour Hope"-esque mechanic could work, BHVR would just have to decide on the bonuses and rewards.
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Of course, if you play in a very unfun way survivors are going to equip perks to deal with it. This is why it's funny to see people cry about DS and BT, yet they will camp/tunnel every time they get a chance to.
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Oh yeah, no doubt if it was a somewhat heavy requirement, it would be a very fun implementation, but you'll always have... those people, lol
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Well the biggest problem with playing as killer is you either tunnel/ping pong or you lose. You can not hook 4 survivors once, then hook 4 different survivors a 2nd time and then death hook them. You will get consistently destroyed unless you go full lion, find the weaker 2 and take them out ASAP. It's just that simple!
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Okay, but that works both ways.
"I run meta perks every match, it's the best strategy since MMR release. We can't change killer mindset so genrush them and move on to the next game."
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Make it so that killer's don't have to tunnel and camp which in turn would make survivors run DS and BT a lot less cause they're wouldn't be a reason to bring it.
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If it has infinite uses then it would be described as unlimited.
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Me when not using meta perks
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I don't run dead hard because it makes my game stutter and I end up going down anyways.
I don't run decisive strike because I've literally never been able to hit the skill check.
I don't run borrowed time because I prefer to leave room for aura reading perks like windows, kindred, and bond as I'm normally solo queue.
I don't bring flashlights because when I try to blind the killer I either call for batman, or zero in on their crotch (also I really like hoarding all my stuffs).
***HOWEVER if I got a long series of games where the killer face camps me at 5 gens for no other reason than they prefer that play style, or I get tunneled because juggling 3 survivors is easier than 4 -- then GUESS WHAT -- I will bring every single one of the meta perks, strong flashlights and toolboxes.***
Maybe this time I'll get that blind. Maybe this time I'll hit the skill check. Maybe I'll get lucky and my game will stutter past a pallet.
So, anyway that was a long way of saying that yeah...I agree with you
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I won't stop bringing BT and DS every game for this very reason.
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I had a legion moan at me for stabbing her with DS when she literally went after me the entire game...
like um hello?
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Camping doesn't change anything. The other 3 could do gens and escape. You still lost. The killer should be thinking about how they could've played better.
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TBF, you kind of deserve it for running Autodidact with Desperate Measures and Botany.
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BT unfortunately (somehow) can still be abused. Because the endurance doesn't go away when they work on generators. Meaning you can return at the 10 second mark, and hit them to try getting them off of the gen, and it'll still pop in your face, and you still have their exhaustion perk to work off of. Because if they're doing that ######### with the BT, they have an exhaustion perk. Not as bad as DS from a few months ago, but still incredibly annoying to try to work against.
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I do not care if they run meta, so I will keep abusing them if they aren't running their quadruple second chance meta.
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There is no putting the genie back in the bottle.
It won't change by our actions.
they haven't any ideas.
if you don't enjoy the dumpster quality play then you should leave. I've only been playing since new dlc to see how it is. I haven't faced her yet. don't care anymore.
game was fun for a bit
the habitual tunnelers should unknowingly have a shovel for a weapon and the campers a giant marshmallow head.
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You don't understand what I'm trying to say. I'm talking about the time before the killer starts camping.
Yes, three people can easily escape if the killer starts camping their FIRST hook after THREE gens got finished. When this happens, the killer already accepted their loss.
"played better"... yeah, no comment on that. Go play against some experienced surivors on certain maps, good luck "playing better".
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we don't. it's not up to us to balance the game. bhvr needs to do their damn job.
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Incorrect.
Why the vast majority of Killers tunnel? Because they need to take out of the Game One survivor asap to have any chance of winning the match.
Do you think I like to ruin someone's Game avoiding him/her to play? Nope, but I must do It if I want to win.
I whish I could give 3 chases to every survivor but sadly that's not possible with actual gen speed, if I swap between survivors and they are decent or gen efficient, Im done on my 3rd Chase if Im not playing Blight or Nurse, and of course I don't play them, I only play Billt, Oni and PH.
So this is not about killer mindset, ask to a main killer if he want play camping and tunneling or chasing survivors, 90% of them Will tell you Chase, but we can't because is just ridiculous how gen flies.
What is the problem here? Behaviour look overall stats, that means Potato survivors and Killers enter on that stats and they balance around average player. This is wrong because if they want balance, the only should look High MMR games, where players know how to abuse perks and Game mechanics and take decisions around veteran players, not basing changes on a potato player with 500 hours.
So excuse me but I do not agree your point, because Killers doesnt decide how Game is going to be, survivors are the ones Who choose if they want to play at chases or playing M1 simulator.
They can decide if we play "Legit" ir we play dirty, so if they doesnt change their mindset and stop rushing gens, tunneling, Camp and lack of Killers variety at hig MMR Will continue until Game dies due to boring games facing every time the same kind of matches
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If I get DS'ed by a survivor I just maintain chase on that person for wasting 5 seconds of my time.
Usually, all of the other survivors stop what they are doing to defend them.
Did it yesterday on coal tower as the doctor, got 4 gen rushed in my second chase, all meta perks, disabled their flashlights with madness and they became useless and got downed one after another just because they flocked to the guy who used DS on me who was dead next hook.
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Identifying survivor perks, or lack thereof, doesn't make me think of the survivor with/without the perks as the weak link. (With the exception of No Mither.) Not being effective in chase with me or lacking game or map awareness is what identifies a weak link to me.
I think breaking the cycle (IF you even want to worry about your involvement in it - I assume you do because you're asking, but consider that there's nothing wrong with playing for max kills if you want) takes a purposeful mindset shift of playing because you enjoy individual chases (even if your opponent has an exhaustion perk or something that you need to play around), you enjoy developing/using macrogame skills, you enjoy getting the perks you brought to work, or things like that. So essentially having a more process or experience based appreciation of a match than an outcome based appreciation. Having a developed strategy is still an effective way to play and the outcome you desire can follow.
I'm a pretty cool-headed killer. I'm not hurt by DS much because, at most times of the game, my overall game strategy leads me to believe that the survivor who recently came off the hook isn't most in need of direct pressure (they're injured, I possibly just gave them an RBT... in some cases if they really badly want to use that DS they brought they might be intentionally not helping their team, which only works to my advantage, right?). DH is certainly frustrating when you're getting teams consistently that have it and use it effectively, but I get satisfaction from outfoxing the good DH users by trying to get it to be used at a place that will soon disadvantage them.
ALSO, and I think is may apply regardless of how you decide to appreciate the game, endgame/exit gate uses of DS and DH are the most painful! If you prefer to selectively not to deal with people that brought these perks during the main part of the game, even at points when you had enough pressure to chase them or they were clearly in bad positions, you're more likely to have to deal with a DS because the survivor didn't have objectives left to do to deactivate it or a DH for distance out the door when you could have otherwise got them.
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Perks should have never been made in the first place to stop killers from tunneling/camping, because their existence ENSURES that killers will camp harder and do other things to tunnel (like wait out the BT on a survivor that thinks you're stupid) in order to ensure you get value for your time. Killer time is at a premium, and those perks mean the killer can't slug the unhook, can't get value from chasing the unhooker (fresh chase with potentially no hooks and the other survivor gets to run to COH for free)
There should have always just been better incentive not to camp. It's not to late to make it worth it to chase a fresh hook, but they need to be brave enough to make that change, as it should have happened year 2. How long has camping and tunneling been complained about? And the impetus should be to make sure the killer can get enough value on their time against good survivors, but the only way that could be achieved is actually crafting maps in ways that don't lead to easy structure chains and extended loops. It should be the case a good killer shouldn't ever need BL, but there are simply to many safety elements on the survivor side and not enough reward on the killer side in general not to camp and tunnel at the high MMR. If they refuse to get rid of MMR they will need to make killer actually decent at a baseline, and they should never look at stats for survivors who have under 100 hours as balance justification. They can't have their cake and eat it too
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