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Why does BHVR continue to encourage camping and tunneling?
Let's not get it twisted - I'm not going to rant about "killer etiquette" or whatever else. I'm just tired of every other game being against a killer that either tunnels a survivor out of the game to quickly make it a 1v3, or ones that camp the hooks to "force a save/grab" that brings multiple survivors in to try and help the poor guy on the hook.
BHVR seems to be actively encouraging this with perks like pain resonance, jolt, etc that allow you to slow down gens without interacting with them, killer powers like Sadako's, Hag's, Twins', and Freddy's that let you teleport almost next to a hooked survivor, and with their "skill based" matchmaking that encourages 4ks no matter how many bloodpoints you earn.
If I'm playing killer and want to increase SBMM, why wouldn't I just proxy camp a hook for easy hits? Why not tunnel a survivor and eject them from the game to make it easy for myself? The only perks survivors have to combat it are BT (which killers just wait out anyways), DS (which killers just wait out anyways) and maybe like, Kinship? But that's useless. Why should I have to take BT and DS every game just to solo q against these killers? Give us something like hook progress slows if the killer is nearby, something to help out. The loss of BP isn't enough, they just see the 4k as the win and don't care.
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I would argue boons encouraged camping and tunneling more than any recent killer perk they have put out. I loaded into Midwich against 3 CoH/Shadowstep boons the other day and it's like yeah F trying to do anything other than camp or tunnel that match.
I could probably run around kicking boons nonstop and they would still be up around the entire map.
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Because the game is balanced around those strategies.
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From a killer's perspective:
- Camping, as in facecamping is something that BHVR have openly stated that they don't like and want to do away with. However, this is difficult to do without completely breaking the game, and survivors aren't guaranteed a safe unhook (if I'm chasing you and you run over and unhook someone in my face, that's your fault not mine).
- Tunneling directly off hook is just facecamping.
- Tunneling outside of this is how killers are supposed to play. If you get down to 1 gen left and have everyone alive and not on death hook, you're going to get teabagged all the way to the exit gates.
- Personally, I don't tunnel enough and lose a lot of games because of it - and I still get whinged at in postgame because people love to run directly into me after an unhook, or play flicky flicky teabag and wonder why I'm giving them so much attention (literally just played a game where a Jake with a legacy skin was spamming a flashlight macro on Eyrie. He got hooked, spammed it again as soon as he saw me, got hooked, spammed it again and I finished him off. He then cussed me out in postgame for tunneling him. I asked him why he was spamming his flashlight at me if he didn't want me to chase. His response 'be a man, grow up and learn to take a joke'. Sigh.)
- You have a team for a reason. They should be running interference and you should be playing very carefully.
- Survivors tend to be very nasty to killers when they win. If survivors are tired of killers playing sweaty, they need to stop hanging around in the exit gates to gloat. Most people would prefer salt to gloating.
- Camping outside of facecamping is totally fine, and this has been confirmed by the devs multiple times. Be careful where you go down and don't lead the killer to the basement.
As I always say to survivors who complain about the methods killers use to win - play a few weeks of killer. Walk a few miles in those shoes - then get back to me.
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These threads need to be consolidated. There was already one on the first page on this exact topic...
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Strange OP seems to of confused Proxy Camping with actual camping.....both are valid strats to use BHVR has said this much but they agree the "agressive" face camping Bubba's etc that don't do it as a strat but as toxic behavior IS being looked at.
Besides like I said Proxy Camping and Camping are two totally different things. With proxy Camping Killers like Hag, Demo, "Freddy" etc don't actively hug the hook but continue applying pressure or hunting survivors and can also easily be countered
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I had 2 Camping Bubbas in a row now. Behold bubba is getting meta now. Literally need to take a break, the killers before were hard tunneling. Thanks bhvr for encouraging this
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What exactly do you want them to do?
Facecamping sucks, but 'fixing it' is very complicated.
If you want to prevent killers from chasing/killing people unless they've got 2 hooks on everyone, you'd need to buff every single killer to a ridiculous level to compensate.
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You've got some good points, and I'd like to point out that I was a consistent red rank killer before SBMM and I just haven't played as much of it lately. The problem is that in solo que, teammates DON'T run interference, and you have no way of coordinating. If I try to rescue someone who is getting proxy camped (which BHVR has said is OK - further proving my point) and the killer just won't hit me so I can unhook/trade, or they get into a 2 second chase with me before going back to the hook, then what's the point? You may as well just let the survivor die on the hook while you go pump gens to try to punish the killer.
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I can understand that. But that doesn't happen every game, or every other game. I see maybe one person bring boons every other game or so, sometimes more sometimes less. But I feel like I get a tunneler or camper every other game. Last 4 games have all been tunnelers , with the 5th being a camping bubba. What's even the point of playing then? May as well just go play killer and wait for friends to maybe possibly some day want to play the game so I can try and get the survivor challenges finished.
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Going...back to the hook? That's not proxy camping.
Proxy camping is just patrolling out from a hooked survivor and watching choke points. If you are within spitting distance of the hook and not leaving it, you are facecamping. Proxy camping isn't cheesy or unfair, there is counterplay.
This game is, and has to be at least somewhat balanced around SWF - because killers need to be able to win too. BHVR have the new status icons for solo survivors coming soon (I'm guessing anniversary update) and that should help substantially with coordination.
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Why does your profile picture have a jail door if I may ask?
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It's the 'restricted status' icon, if I'm not mistaken. It's basically the stage after a warning but before a forum ban.
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It is mean you warned by mods. Next one is ban for a month.
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I don't blame you. I don't play solo Q anymore. I literally only play killer and SWF.
Camping and tunneling gets killers more kills than attempting 12 hooks, and MMR is a thing now so that's what people are gonna do. The DbD devs are attempting to make an E-sport out of an unbalanced party game and this is the result.
Super strong survivor perks that give the killer of all things an extra secondary objective just make it worse. The strongest killer characters can still mostly just ignore them, but it relegates the weaker ones purely into camping/tunneling to win. M1 killers don't have time to run around kicking boons or face crippling penalties, so it makes sense to just camp/tunnel people to death as a workaround.
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I said something I shouldn't and got put in Jail. That's why you should ALWAYS follow the forum rules
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Solo Q while being camped makes me rethink my life choices, Everytime I'm camped with kindred everybody wants to just stare and not do gennys.
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Lmao thanks for the warning
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Actually it's Warning, Jain, then Ban. But that's never going to happen to me because I'm not going to make the same mistake I did to get Jail time.
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I couldn’t tell ya. The game gets stale when one of those strategies get considered. 0 kills with 8 hooks is less skill than a facecamping Bubba with NOED 1-hooking two survivors in BHVR’s eyes.
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Yeah I really do wish they went with hooks over kills for the SBMM. Kills are easy to cheese and encourages hella bland gameplay. I don't mind camping and tunneling as a killer, or honestly being camped and tunneled as survivor.
It's being survivor and just doing gens while someone gets camped and tunneled that I find outrageously boring because I have pretty much 0 input if I win or lose. You don't even have to hold M1 anymore, I need to see if you can fully AFK the gens with technician.
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Perhaps occult influence.
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What exactly do I want them to do? I don't want to see these people getting PointsInProgress; be rewarded at the end of the season for their toxic behavior and it makes me take longer to collect PointsInProgress because such players take these points from me. One of the Bubbas even had Thana in it, meaning I couldn't even finish the gens, even with my teammates.
There may be a variety of reasons why these players play like this: boons, toxic swfs, insults - the list is endless. I'm not saying that these aren't problems, but these are really problems that are difficult to tackle & solve because people are very reactive.
However, that doesn't change the fact that these players are rewarded for doing this.
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That seems like public shaming. Pretty typical for DBD...
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I'm curious as to what everyone's idea of tunneling is exactly?
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how does pain resonance encourage tunneling and camping? It does the exact opposite, you want to hook many survivors, if you camp someone and they reach struggle they dont get the effect of the perk, and tunneling leads to slugging which means also no hooking, no value out of the perk again.
And jolt? What xDDD
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Many forums do something similar besides I broke the rules twice so I deserve to be punished for it.
Tunneling is when you focus solely on one survivor even though there are other survivors that can be chased until they are dead. But there are many things that are not considered tunneling.
Killer following scratch marks and they find the unhooked survivor and down them. Not tunneling just the unlucky draw of who's scratch marks that they followed.
Unhooked survivor gains BT from friend and then instead of leaving and letting the killer chase their friend instead body blocks using BT and then the killer downs them. Again not tunneling because the killer had no interest in chasing them off hook but the survivor put themselves back in front of the killer.
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I could have been more clear there. One way to keep killers from camping is to encourage them to leave the area to patrol gens or gain a benefit, like Pop Goes the Weasel, Devour Hope, or Make Your Choice. They encourage you to leave the hook and perform actions elsewhere. Perks like Jolt, Oppression, and Pain Resonance allow you to pressure the gen progression without having to patrol/leave the hook area.
Just my 2 cents.
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Ye I agree there
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Real question, why do you want your MMR to go up? It's a horseshoe man.
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Because they don't know how to fix it. Therefore they chose the "it is not a bug, it is a feature" route.
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No killers want their MMR to go up, they just like to get some kills during a stressful, boring game. Their MMR going up is a punishment.
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There isn't really anything you can do about it without severely limiting killers in some way, if people WANT to play like that, they should be able too, and even if there were things in place (Take BT as a very mild example) people will still do it. Some player throw matches entirely to focus one person through BT, DS etc, it's just how they want to play.
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Honestly, the toxic circle of behavior both sides feed into each other, the epidemic of actual cheaters, and just overall gen rushing has created this. The community is to blame for how they play, not the devs. It's 1v4. Keep all of this in mind when you're complaining.
The suggestions I've seen for countering camping and tunneling from the community (i.e. survivor mains who never really play killer) always downright cripple the killer in moat situations and there's such a broad opinion of what constitutes as camping and tunneling that if all the complainers got their way, killers would be lucky to even get within 5 feet of them.
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It is the ideal way to win now. You pick 2 people, hook them in alternating order for a quick 2v1, then find the third. Don't even need to slug for the 4th, because it's a hassle. Just give them the absolutely free hatch escape.
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- Survivors punish killers for camping and tunneling by doing gens. This is 100% fail proof. Killers succeed at this strategy because survivors don’t play smart.
- You don’t have to run DS and BT. I solo queue and I don’t run any exhaustion or anti-tunneling perk. I run CoH, Detectives Hunch, Windows, and whatever the new guys perk is that reveals your aura and gives you 10% heal boost. Do gens, knock out the totems to stop NOED, and escape. **** around, and find out.
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No matter what it is defined as, I'm sure killers can rationalize how they don't do it.
I define it as not hooking the same person in 30 seconds.
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Why not release a boon that makes survivors fly and have done!
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No need for a boon there's plenty of flying hackers around
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Yeah I have seen a few video's. These hackers although stupid are at least funny.
It's the subtle hackers that do my nut in.
Then BHVR releases a boon that gives a speed boost which makes it harder to know for sure if they are hacking. lol
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Subtle hackers do my nut in the most.
The blatant ones are at least funny usually.
Nice one releasing a boon that gives a subtle speed boost.
Unreal is this to makes us believe there are no hackers lol
Noticed one earlier but no it was dark theory according to chat.
So the radius is the whole map was my reply.
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Survivors complain about Killers doing Killer things they don't like: "Why does BHVR allow this? I'm leaving for four months!"
Killers complain about Survivors doing Survivor things they don't like: "It's part of the game, brah. Raging about it? You need therapy!"
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Lack of gen regression, so little point in kicking gens.
CoH, or multiples of means its more efficent to tunnel and camp a surv than to endless chase when you can free heal.
Get 2 CoH's on Saloon or swamp and it's best just to face camp unless you've got Usain Bolt speed killer.
In sumation, you can't heal or repair gens when you're dead.
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Pain Resonance + Dead Man's Switch is a pita. Pain Resonance gives no reason to the killer to go back to the gens because they explode... and when it explodes and survs get kicked outta the gen, DMS blocks it for 35+ seconds... why would a killer patrol with this combo?
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not when you're in low mmr, they fall like flies the moment killers starts walking in their general direction, killer is still power role in low mmr.
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Doesn't one of the devs stream and he pretty frequently camps lol
That kinda answers the question right there imo
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