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Really not understanding the Sadako complaints.
I've been having a great time with her, new main for sure. Don't know why a lot of people have been struggling with her, most of my games have been consistent 2-3ks.
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Because people want 4Ks sometimes, something that they're denied all of the time when using this weak killer.
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How so? I haven't had much trouble there.
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Tbh it's kind of hard to tell right now, and I don't blame people for considering her weak because she is kind of strange.... But I think she is absolutely a good killer, not amazing, but she has some spice. I've been mixing things up with demanifesting and it really is a good tool to ######### people over big time.
I can almost always force a bad reaction out of a survivor in situations that would otherwise never happen, like at L T walls, she can get consistent hits that other killers have to pray their mindgame will work at.
Her TV's are pretty RNG, and thus can make you gun shy in using them, but in my opinion it is never a bad idea to use them in chase, especially at loops, as even if you don't get the exact angle you hope for on them, you have to remember, they do not know where your tv is in relation to them without being in 16 meters of it. They can't possibly know what angle you will approach from, and I have litterally trapped people into my body by predicting their long range pathing (with the use of BBQ and other notifications). It is honestly nuts what I pull of some games with her, she is definitely not that weak.
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Let me give a few complaints I have about playing as the killer: Survivors have to practically being trying to get fully condemned for it to happen. They can simultaneously turn your TVs off, so after 1 or 2 teleports every now and then, it seems like your TVs are off all the time. Her speed boost out of the TVs isn't long enough, and the placement of her TVs sometimes suck, like you're spawned in looking at a wall. She's an M1 killer, so despite being built around hit and run, you have to commit to every down if there's a boon in play. Her demanifested mode barely makes her stealthy, since she makes that loud metal screeching sound when she's near. It also never trips people up in chase. So she's a killer with nothing to help her in chase, weak passive pressure mechanic, built-in counters for that and for her teleport, and isn't even stealthy. What do y'all see in her?
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lucky to get a 1k with her. They just turn my TVs off, never get condemned and feed me a million pallets
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If they are watching you they can see what direction you teleported and just run the opposite way. Her tv makes a loud sound then you teleport so you can't use it in chase without them knowing either.
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This... she's so fun to play against... even with spine chill you never know where she's at
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Just because I went on a 100 game 4K streak with Legion doesn't mean he's strong.
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You got a stream, or maybe some VODs?
Because she was mediocre at first, and now that I've played a lot of matches with her and pushed her a bit higher MMR wise - she's about on par with Pig. She's pretty good at shattering less coordinated groups, but when you run into people who send you to Badham or Eyrie and know how to make you work for every hit, she's pretty bad.
The major issue is that she does...basically nothing that another killer can't do better.
I don't know.
TVs can be...okay, or can be completely useless. They are incredibly RNG, and smart survivors are learning to anticipate her teleports and just 180. And if you do succeed - you still probably need a second hit, and now that TV is disabled for a huge chunk of time.
Her phasing...I know that when I play against her, it's not hard to tell where she is or where she's going, even if people are savvy about timing her phases to mindgame. Watching some high MMR people play her - I'm seeing about the same reaction (or rather, lack of reaction) from survivors.
I'm not saying she can't do well. People have done 50 win streaks on pre-rework Trapper.
I am saying that she just doesn't really work with the way this game is played in 2022.
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What opposite way? They don't know if your TV is behind them or to one of their sides, the sound isn't directional unless you are within 16 meters. For all they know you went across the map, you have to come from different angles. Also approach demanifested so you aren't caught out early
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Yea, I've noticed even with spine chill most survivors still can't exactly always tell where I'm at. Its really taken for granted how powerful stealth can be, coming from someone who hates playing wraith.
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You look at it and make an animation...
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I hear you, and I do have plenty of games where survivors are smart enough to figure out I'm approaching after a while, but it never seems consistent. The thing to me is, it's the combination of usages that really messes with survivors. I don't always TP to the closest TV to a survivor just because I feel it will give me away (unless I know there isn't any strong loops in the area or I know I can get condemned).
I think this killer may just be like hag at the end of the day, too. For the people the really get into her, she may eventually be regarded as pretty damn good (like hag was before boons, even though I think Boons are maybe just the slightest bit overrated, but that's just my opinion), but she just won't necessarily click for others, and she may not be the most consistent (which I'd argue almost all outside of the top 3 are to some degree anyway)
I must say, I do well with her on maps I couldn't dream of doing well with on the likes of say, Nemisis, which is as close to a main as I have these days. I don't think I've even had a single 1K on Badham I, it's been 2k-4K exclusively there. I've done great on The Game, Just got a 4K on DeadDawg (well, 3K, let last guy live) and otherwise I've been getting fairly consistent games and even probably more mori's than I would have imagined I'd be getting by now.
I'm not saying she can't get a buff tho lol hell add whatever else she needs at this point, I wouldn't turn it down
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I'm sorry, could you make it more clear what you're saying exactly?
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From what I'm seeing, they generally assume that you are teleporting somewhere ahead of them, because if you were teleporting behind them you'd be looking a different way.
If you teleport behind them and they don't correctly anticipate that...yeah, that might work - but it's a blind coinflip even if the TV is in the perfect position, and not facing the wrong way, into a wall.
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Yea, but that's why when you're using Demanifest, you want to be a distance and angle away. Admittedly I run clump of hair for this reason. They can't see where you are going or looking if you space yourself back to outside of 18 meters. This is also good because they'll start looking behind them at loops, so you can TP to a TV on the side of the loop and approach demanifested.
Really, it's just about being unpredictable with where you will approach, sometimes you have to make calls that feel unnatural, but you will catch survivors more often than you expect of you utilize her TV's and Demanifest in weird ways
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If you're falling that far behind, then it's even more of a coinflip.
Again - yes, when the stars align she can get the occasional free hit.
So can Pig.
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18 meters isn't that far.
I can't convince you, I get it. But I just want to say, fro. What I can see in her, the more I play as and against her, I see where her strengths lie, and she is not being given a fair enough observation. I said the same thing about Hag 4 years ago, just like Hexy and a few others, and people thought that was a joke. I say, give her time.
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She is invisible at 24m not 18.
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If she is like hag, she will be worse.
Hag's trap can't really be countered by usual means (kind of), but sadako's tv can be turned off without any items.
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Wouldn't Hags be worse, since hers can get destroyed without any risk to the survivor (or completely bypassed by crouching) while with Sadako, you technically risk Mori stacks? Plus she has to spend early game placing them? And she's 110
Not that I compare the two, because Hag was my second main after hillbilly, but I'm just saying she may have her potential and may deserve more buffs but I won't be upset either way.
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Dunno, but hags can place trap anywhere she want, and survivors will always risk getting hit by her unless using a flashlight.
I never thought she was that strong anyway.
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Fair enough, different strokes. I hate Plague even though she's considered meta now because I don't like how it feels like her power is mostly in the survivors hands, but others put her in high A-tier. I know she'll probably get some buffs with all the feedback people have given, at least at some point, but I will have fun with her for now either way.
The least I can say about her is I definitely play her differently, having to respect loops, break pallets and play strong M1 at times, but it's fun switching up from anti-loop to repeatedly catching people off-gaurd.
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She got the Map RNG (her TV's) because they are survivor interactions (it sucks but whatever... Same with Freddie's clocks and Pig Boxes)
Condemned doesn't work all that much in game (it does on paper... and that's what the Devs see)
Players that played the PTB have prior knowledge (those of us on console have to watch other people play her... to which they gain that persons opinions)
She should get a small speed boost for manifesting (That's just me though)
She has a lullaby... but she's a stealthy Killer so that don't make sense
She's a not so stealthy stealth Killer that can teleport
Also her addons don't have Manifesting- Demanifesting speed increases (Just saying)
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But it does mean that unless you're playing all top level survivors the main thing that matters is player skill difference, not the killer you're playing. "Strong" vs "Weak" killers only really matters when all the players in the match aren't making mistakes which is the exception, not the rule, for most players.
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I'm glad you're having fun with her. She really is so cool I love her so much. It's a shame that all the doom and gloom is what we mostly hear about Sadako. I think people are just upset she isn't an S tier killer but she's cool af.
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I enjoy the mobility and getting the jump on people.
What I don't enjoy is that it's impossible to follow up on that, because either I'm treated to a world tour of pallets that she has nothing against, or because if I leave they're now in a complete safe-zone because of the disgusting cooldown on TVs.
The only matches I've hasd as her that I'd consider "fun" have been running her iridescent to switch TVs back on, and the add on which spreads condemned when they heal each other.
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yknow i'm really curious to see how you play with how much you talk about how hard killers have it
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I think her TV cooldowns are her biggest issue. Her most fun and interesting part of her kit but both cooldowns are way to high. 60 seconds for survivors Turing them off is way to long and 100 seconds for you using your power is crazy as well.
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I think they should add part of her iridescent as base kit.
The iridescent switches on 4 TVS that you teleported to, base kit it should be 1. That way you'd be rewarded for using TVs well, and keep pressure where pressure needs to be if you keep turning on one by a progressed gen. If you were too flippant about teleporting and didn't find people, you'd still be punished by the cooldown which would be better.
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Plague forces rather strong lose-lose situation to survivors, give her super strong ranged or stay injured all the time, and also punishes badly coordinated team.
Onryo doesn't really have one, when survivors decide to stop her power, it's win-win for them.
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There's a certain realization you have to have at some point if you want anyone to take you seriously, and that is that the match is always the survivors' to lose. Nurse can kind of circumvent all that because she's Nurse, but for everyone else, you'd better listen close.
You don't have time to go for 12 hooks, clearly. But you can't even go for 8 hooks a lot of the time, so you adapt like I have recently. Hook nobody else except for 2 survivors of your choosing. Alternate on hooking them, for the best chance at avoiding either's DS, and get them out of the game asap. This results in a 2v1, and hopefully all the gens aren't done but they might be. Find the 3rd, hook them, and take your 3k. 4k's are a luxury, because if you don't slug for the 4th, they most likely get a free hatch escape, or a gate escape even after you've closed it. In conclusion, if you don't play like this, and the survivors are actually efficient, you're walking away with about 1 kill average. You'll have some close 2k's, but also some 0k's if you deviate from this strategy.
Why are the results for killer so dire if you don't play efficient, like I said, and the survivors are playing efficient?
1) Survivors always win the war of atrition. They can do gens faster than you can undo them, regardless of your perks. This means even a 3-gen can fail, easily.
2) The survivor objective can be finished way before yours is. The gens can all be done in about 3 and 1/2 minutes. They'll complete them slower depending on how fast you're downing, but they will complete them regardless.
3) Very few killers have strong enough powers to down fast, and all of those powers have counterplay. You chase 1 survivor who knows how to vs your killer, and you could lose the whole game.
4) Survivors can virtually guarantee and unhook unless you have instadowns. Whether it's one survivor coming for the save or multiple, they'll bait the grab, BT, Dead Hard, DS, Unbreakable, whatever it takes to get the hooked survivor and everyone else out, but they will be successful.
The only exception to these rules is if the survivors aren't playing their best. This can vary wildly, from them collectively being just a bit inefficient, to not having a clue between them, but that's all classed as inefficiency nonetheless. I feel that people are walking into my "killer biased" arguments with none of this context, and it appears as if they know everything and I know nothing, when really it's closer to the opposite. I don't need people to like me or what I say; I just need them to back up what they're saying, especially if it's defamatory. I've been called "the killer Sluzzy" before, and I think that's very dangerous blanket statement/character assassination that can be used against any one of us.
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2-3ks is a loss, if u are not getting 4ks constantly, the killer is just garbo.
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Sadako is a mix of other killer powers, but all of her powers are worse version.
Condemn < Pigs slowdown
Tv teleport < Freddy gen teleport, Demo portal teleport
Stealth killer with lullaby < Wraiths stealth
Tv speed boost < Wraiths lunge
The finishing blow that Sadako has nothing that helps her in chase. A killer without anti loop is doomed to be low tier.
Her design is very nice, but gameplay extremely lacking, m1 killer with weak powers.
Her mobility useless because can't convert into downs. She doesn't have map pressure, she has map presence big difference
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Tbf they did mention using clump of hair, which decreases the visibility range by 6m
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oh.
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Not true. Plauge gets 50/50's when her power is made available by survivors. The counter to plague now isn't much different from what it was before her buffs, just don't cleanse early game, and if you do have to eventually, do it in an area with a completed gen or where strong loops are still up. Good survivors make her power irrelevant, just as they always have. At least with Onryo, they have to interact to counterplay
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I mean we had a tournament where Survivors used the best of the best items and perks and same thing for killers and guess what? The kills on average were a bit over 2.
You can write whole paragraphs all you want but killer isnt nearly as hard as you make it out to be and it quite literally is in most cases the killers fault when they end up losing. There are scenarios where the odds are simply stacked against you, such as playing a killer on a bad map specifically for that killer while having perks to counter that specific killer. But this doesnt happen NEARLY as often as people claim.
And wanna know what else happens EVEN less? Facing Survivors who actually take advantage of that and play on that level.
Sure killers can have a hard time, sure you can have a series of bad games. But it aint something exclusive to DbD and it especially isnt something exclusive to killers
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Plague is super strong right now. Especially with call of brine making a 3 gen strat viable again. She can do "hit and run" with her puke better than any killer since they can't heal at all after being hit by the tinest splash. Tinkerer / Pop / Call of Brine / Thanta plague has been shredding survivor teams for me and it's definitely funny looking at 2-3 boons at the endgame screen that were completely negated.
If they don't cleanse they will have a super rough time breaking the 3 gen because you just walk up and instadown them w/ tinkerer. Pop + Call of brine usually buys you enough time to clear out the pallets nearby and after that it's going to be very rough for them.
Trying to compare her to Onryo is apples and oranges when it comes to power levels. She could never hold a 3 gen like that, the survivors will get out of the deadzone every time and go heal.
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Hag on release was probably the worst killer BHVR ever made. She was quickly adjusted.
Who knows - maybe everyone is just Sadako-ing wrong? But I've looked at it from every angle I can think of, and I share Otz's opinion that she's, at best, 'below average'.
There are so many ways to improve her - but Condemn is just a silly mechanic. Being able to mori someone instantly is impossible to balance. As it stands, it's mostly negligible. Buff it and it could end up being Tombstone Piece...and that's not ideal either.
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sorry but 2k is a tie and 3k is pretty much a win,4k icing on the cake and cherry on top.
your not meant to get a 4k every match if they do pretty sure they get nerfed
don't say blight and nurse can 4k every match because not everyone that good with them.
on Sadako I like her a lot but spirit is better to me anyways but she could use some buff like to her TVs
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I have as well, although SWF has always been no kills. I also got a lot of SWF which isn't really fun when you can't get any hooks and 2 or 3 survivors have COH, which most SWF I go against have.
I think she could use a slight buff especially if the devs are going to give solo players more buffs to be like a SWF.
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everyone, why do y’all say solo survivor suck? I always escape all my solo matches.
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Idk know about that I find her iri to be really strong maybe if it's 1-2 tvs it might be ok.
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I find her fun to play with two factors.... map and if it's soloq or not. Even then depending on how high your MMR, she can be super weak in soloQ if the survivors split do gens, hold W and pre-drop pallets(and pay attention). Granted, this is assuming CoH is involved in every match, if not, then I honestly she's still on the weak end but managable.
So... nerfing CoH would be ideal.
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Lol your whole point is irrelevant though because look at the example you had to use.. Its funny how there's dozens and dozens of tournaments showing the opposite of everything you said but you conveniently choose the ONE tournament they've done where they allow both sides to use whatever they want. I have a news flash for you but in pubs the majority of people don't have every single perk/addon/offering unlocked on every single character like they do in custom games so that's terrible logic. Your point is a strawman at best and doesn't really speak to anything other than that small sample size in that tournament
Like wow, I never knew that a Spirit running Blossom and MDR on a small map would have the potential to 3-4k even good players! What a shocking discovery, its almost as if you're proving that players need to stack meta in order to be competent against good players and anything less results in a hard fought tie or a L more often than not
If this wasn't true then please provide evidence and logic to explain why even when given access to everything in the game in a private tournament people still leaned towards the strongest characters in the game with the strongest addons/perks. If it was so balanced people would bring yellow addons with Trapper and non-slowdown or oppressive perks 💡
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You mean the tournament where moris were legal? Yeah, very few killers are going into matches with moris.
1) Some people don't want to use them.
2) It's an offering (which is equipped outside of the match).
3) Killers run out of moris.
And those survivors in that tournament? Most certainly weren't playing their best. I'm calling their skill level and/or motivation to win into question. You're telling me that they're freed of all the perk/item restrictions that tourneys normally use so that it's fair for the killer, and they still died that often? They were occasionally going against Artist, which was a new killer, so maybe that's a factor. They had good maps, perks, items, comms, against a killer whose only new advantage was a mori and maybe some better add-ons, and they just couldn't pull off their usual 3-4 man escapes? Just couldn't do it? No. They either played badly or threw the game.
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Or, hear me out
Killer isn't as impossible as you like to make it out to be
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i'm gonna be honest i didn't expect this to get as many responses as it did and i feel too intimidated to reply to any of them
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Finally, someone on the forums who knows how good demanifesting it!
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