Circle of Healing (CoH) still is completely out of control
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Where as I think it's vastly overrated. Ultimately I don't care what they do with it. I'm just tired of the never ending complaints.
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Can you imagine Mettle of Man in the current game?
oof
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Old MOM would have thrown this game into chaos
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OG MoM with current COH?
Even more reason to play Plague.
Not that you couldn't still get tokens when going from injured to dying when she doesn't have her power but at least you're not healing every 2 seconds and taking hits for people to get it.
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It did.
Boons are MoM all over again. Total failure.
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Like I've seen suggested. It should be a better self care or we'll make it. Not both. So either in the boon effect you can heal yourself in the normal 16 seconds. But remove the ability to heal others 100% faster. Or vice versa. I am of the opinion it doesn't need both. Healing yourself in 16 seconds is giving your whole team basically medkit level healing.
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Which would make it pointless to run. If it just let you heal yourself then you're better off with a medkit. If you can just heal your teammates then We'll Make It would be better. There's honestly no way I can see to balance it. It'll either be annoying or trash tier.
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I think Boons should break when snuffed and Hexes shouldn't be able to be blessed
Also a mechanic where each time someone gets injured it takes 0.5 more charges to heal
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Boons should break when snuffed. 5 totems per match is enough. Its ridiculous how i snuff a boon and another one is relighted instant. The idea of boons being spammable was broken from the start and shame on anyone who came up with it.
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Give it 3 charges per bones then it dies, and killers can also stomp the bones.
It gives it a lifespan, which is the issue. I don't mind that you can heal everyone else, i mind that you can do it endlessly. 1 CoH in it's current form isn't the end of the world, its annoying but 2 or more CoH's is just #$%!, you can't remove it from the game, and on small maps the boons can cover 70% of the gens and hooks.
I had 2 on Dead dog, one was at the water tower, one was behind the saloon near the basement steps, thats nearly every hook and gen covered by CoH. Stomp one other is up, stomp the other first one is back up. If you really love tunneling and face camping bring 2 CoH's.
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Yeah but once you find a totem, that's yours for the duration of the game. If you bless one in the opposite area to the 3 gen phase, you have a permanent in game medical centre and killers can't afford to go snuff it.
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Sorry kids, it still hasn't been two years since CoH came out, so you can't judge it. Just 'let it sit' a while longer
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So do you honestly think that the nerf CoH received lately hit close? According to your way of thinking this nerf, that many players think was laughable, should have already catapulted the perk into the realm of near uselessness: now We'll Make It heals faster and even a brown medkit would provide the same utility and self heal, without costing a perk slot.
If we are real, no, its all not even close. The whole package is so damn strong and tasty. I remember a lot of discussions were some survivor players state "if you could snuff the Boons permanently and break the bones I would eventually end up with only 3 perks. This would kill the perk for me", showing a deep divide and entitlement issues between the power a cool perk should have for survivors and any Hex perk available to killers.
Yeah, yeah, I know "Boons and Hexes have ABSOLUTELY nothing in common, besides that they coincidentially use the same vehicle to function, ie bones. Please stop comparing the two, its beyond silly", I got that one thrown at me often enough, but frankly I believe that Hexes and Boons are the same medal, just different faces, and so should at least somewhat play by the same rules. If boons could be permanently snuffed that would still give you a very powerful effect up to 5 times a match, yet would reign in its power in a way that you wouldnt mindlessly spam it at every totem you come accross, but at least consider your options.
Just as a thought experiment, imagine if a Killer could rekindle a moderately powerful, yet irritating and annoying Hex like Blood Favor, Crowd Control or Thrid Seal over and over, just by going back to its remains and pressing a button. Pentimento comes close, but even that is just a one shot and if a Pentimento gets cleansed it stays broken. On a side note, that would be a fun buff to Pentimento, right? Letting you rekindle remains ad infinitum; it would change the flow of the game profoundly and face survivors with a conundrum: cleanse and boon or leave the bones alone, giving a killer no ammuniton for Pentimento, yet opening up a NOED later in the match. A single perk could change the way a match plays out fundamentally, and 30% semi-permanent repair and healspeed debuff doesn't even come close to +100% healspeed buff, so it would be balanced, right?
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Survivors got the time to find totems to boon.
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Circle of Healing comes from a single survivor - Mikaela
Mikaela was created by BHVR - All revenue from her sales goes straight to BHVR as there is no third party to pay.
CoH will remain unchanged for now, and will most likely have further nerfs in the future after sales die down.
There is no real way to claim developer ignorance or anything - They 100% know, but there are other 'prioritie$.'
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Maybe are the same person
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Slowdown perk ? How? You can still repair with Hex:Plaything.
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i actually agree. In solo, i had people break all totems before i could even apply CoH. (ok, maybe due to a challenge, because it doesnt happen often, but it does happen).
so, what we need is an swf indicator so killers can avoid CoH in an swf, since you identified that as the main issue, do you agree?
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It provides a small amount of slowdown by encouraging survivors to find and cleanse the hex totem if they don't want to deal with it.
I wouldn't call it a slowdown perk though. That's just how hexes work and is just a side benefit of them.
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At the cost of not hearing the killer at all. Unless you're in a strongly coordinated swf that shares the killer's position constantly and precisely (which happens literally only in comp game) then you're trading at least one healthstate for doing gens instead of looking for the totem.
It's a tradeoff with passive slowdown
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Your analysis is a bit off in a couple ways
- You’re including the time it takes the killer to get to the totem to snuff it but not including the time it takes the survivor to get to the totem to relight it. The survivor doesn’t just instantly teleport to the totem, they have to spend a few seconds moving to the totem as well. So really that movement on both sides is more or less a wash, the major time difference is the 2 seconds to snuff versus 14 seconds to bless so it really is something like a 10-12 second time difference in the killer’s favor. (Kind of like 1/2 a Pop)
- Not all four survivors are on gens all the time so the worst case scenario of the killer giving all four of them 6 seconds on gens almost never happens. Typically it’s more like you down/hook someone, snuff a nearby boon, and then chase someone else. And the downed person isn’t usually getting anything useful out of those 6 seconds while slugged. Likewise if a survivor is already eliminated it’s not even a 4v1 at that point. The basic point that a killer shouldn’t spend a ton of time snuffing boons while nobody is downed or hooked and all four are alive is correct, but it’s not actually a 6 to 24 seconds type deal assuming you are picking appropriate times to snuff them and not just doing it randomly.
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U can puke me all the day, i wint dead hard.
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We used to in hex undying. But cleansing 5 totem were too much
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It shouldn't be in the game, that's why. Why should a team wide heal perk that costs 1/16 perk slots, be better than every other self heal perk in the game?
Gut it or change it to do something else. It has ruined the game.
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Please explain why healing far away from the objective is sooooo game breaking for a killer. A 3 gen is already ridiculously too strong in favor of killer.
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Lol.
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Lol.
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You'd camp and tunnel even if CoH wasn't a thing.
The Camping and Tunneling problem was here long before CoH was introduced to the game.
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It promotes tunneling,you see a survivor with boons,you tunnel them.
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That's actually an interesting thought. Maybe make it where only one of a given boon can be active at a time.
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I already feel they're overrated. So I honestly don't care what they do with boons.
No, because every killer will just dodge swf's. Que times would become an absolute nightmare. They need to close the swf/solo gap and buff killers accordingly.
That is more than a little over dramatic. The perk itself isn't the issue. The way it interacts with swf's is.
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They do intend to bring solo survivors up to the level of SWFs by implementing a way to convey information via activity icons which is going to make the game even worse for killers since they still won't receive any compensation buffs. Survivors will be able to genrush far more efficiently the moment another survivor tells their team that they're keeping the killer busy.
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Nope. the perk is an issue.
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- - I actually never even mentioned the survivors time with doing the totems so the walk time wasn't excluded, I just never mentioned their time period, walk or lighting. I was only talking about the killer time associated. However if we do want to compare those it does take away "some" of the time given, but not nearly as much as your alluding to because once again it's a 4:1 ratio per time spent, so that walk time from the survivor is worth significantly less than the killers walk time.
- - This is actually a some what mute point. This is because when comparing balance we assume both sides playing well. IE we look at good vs good, not bad vs bad or good vs good groups. Looking at something from a perspective of expecting them to play badly leads to very over tuned perks or features, something we are suffering from currently and have been for a very long time. Against event remotely decent survivors they will all be on gens, to assume otherwise is disingenuous in terms of finding proper balance (just speaking generally here, not at you). Yes we can say the killer is choosing proper times to snuff the totem (after a hook), however that is not always the case as you will run into many times the totem is right there in your area (still roughly 6 seconds) and if you choose to wait till a hook that could now mean the totem is far out of the way ( significantly more than 6 seconds now ) negating a large margin of that efficiency enough to make it nearly a mute point. This is also very common and not a rare exception.
- I'll concede that there is some leeway from the points you've given that could lower the numbers I provided slightly. However I'll also say that the numbers I gave (6 seconds) were very generous. Much of the time I'd say it's more than 6 seconds but I was leaning on the conservative side. Either way even if we do shift the numbers slightly either direction it still leaves it way over tuned. That is to say that yes what you mentioned could change the numbers, but nothing significant enough to change the over all point of still being the same.
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I was in one game and Circle of Healing lifted her shirt up and showed me her burning skulls. Gone wild indeed!
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I get what you’re saying about survivors trying to stay on gens, but you can’t just assume all the survivors will always be on gens because if the killer is playing well they are exerting pressure to keep some of them off the gens as much as possible. (By the way, it’s “moot”, just FYI.) And this isn’t a negligible thing, especially if the killer player is making good use of slugging versus hooking.
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I don't see them fixing it, as it needs an overhaul to become a fair and balanced perk. BHVR doesn't put effort into fixing their game unless it's absolutely mandatory, and an OP perk doesn't count,
Oh, but if it's a killer perk they might nerf it, but a survivor perk? lol
I refuse to come back to play DBD until COH is fixed. I'm a killer main and it's so miserable what COH does.. forcing killers to camp/tunnel or enjoy losing every game.
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Wow, I never thought I'd hear you call out someone for strong bias, given how even-handed your comments normally are. :)
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Boons in general are out of control. There really should be a limit on how many times they can be placed in a match. Unlimited usage of such strong perks is obscene. It's like old Undying, but worse because it's infinite.
I just had a game where the last 3 survivors had boons (all 3 had all 4 boons), 3 gen'd themselves out the ass, and all they did was constantly rebless their boons. No gens being touched, just boons. Bless, hide, rebless, repeat. For 20 minutes. I DC'd. I wasn't angry, and I'm still not. I'm incredibly bored. I want to play the game, and this is actively not playing. It's tedious and I'm done playing with people like this.
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Boons are one of the reasons you have to eliminate (some say tunnel) a survivor out of the game early, just to have a chance as killer.
Don't hate the player.....
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I can't speak for tunneling, but I definitely don't blame survivors for running boons (and other meta perks for what it's worth), I blame the developers for making the perks what they are.
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CoH is really way out of control. Like completely way out. 😐
Killers can't stand a chance. 👀
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At top MMR they will all be on gens, even trying to exert the most pressure possible. Obviously a generalization but I would call it true 90% of the time. You aren't going to be effectively slugging against "good" survivors, average games sure. I believe the amount you're negating is quite negligible to the extent it is still over the threshold of over tuned. I feel you're picking exceptions rather than the general rule of how things would go.
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It is overtuned.. I don't use it as a survivor main. I just...kinda feel bad for the killer. Even if it is a mechanic they out into the game. But on the bright side my looping skills have gotten so much better due to being a Mikaela main. They just assume I am the one running CoH, and do not like me.
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I'd rather have survivors run across the map to heal rather than sit on gens injured. Yall need to play survivor to see a lot times you just can't find a good totem to save your life.
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That's objectively not true though. For example, check out RedsGamingGears, all the last couple of weeks he's been doing various slug heavy builds and strategies on a variety of killers and is doing quite well with them because even good survivors can't all be on gens when one or two people are slugged and another is being chased. In fact against a good killer all 4 survivors being on the gens simultaneously is the exception, not the rule.
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He popped into my feed after I posted a similar build to his on here....Google analytics?
Very wholesome streamer, imo.
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Yeah, I just started watching his vids this month, I'm really liking his style. 🙂
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