Circle of Healing (CoH) still is completely out of control
Almost every single game I see at least one survivor bringing that perk into the trial just to repeatedly relit the totem whenever I break it. Meanwhile the rest of the team is doing gens in a coordinated fashion. It's a blatant lose-lose for the killer, you cannot circumvent this predicament.
Since BHVR seems to have no intention of further nerfing this perk's numbers the next logical step would be to change how boons work in general. I strongly advise to enable killers to break totems permanently. But even that might not be enough since it still gives survivors the opportunity to use the perk up to five (!!) times which is already far too much.
I simply see no hope for DbD ever recovering from the introduction of CoH. You either tunnel and camp people to death (which only leads to a 2K most of the time) or you risk losing the game entirely if you try to play normally against this broken perk.
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With your pfp I’d thought you wouldn’t know COH even exists.
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Wasn't BHVR's statement last time they changed CoH the they'd nerf it some and see how it went before nerfing further?
In any case my general impression has been the issues were with CoH in particular rather than Boons in general. So much so I think the whole Boon situation was tainted by Circle of Healing beyond one of the first ones introduced.
To that end, one idea I had for CoH was rather than buff Healing speed directly maybe increase the power of skill checks, maybe lot a single Autodidact stack (15%) at tier .
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Plague gets mercilessly denied by Dead Hard which is pretty much used by every single survivor playing this game. Also bad hit registration of her own puke makes playing her on dedicated servers a matter of luck instead of skill.
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Yeah I know it was a joke.
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I refuse to call its last change a nerf because the numbers make no tangible difference while the things that make it busted are still in place.
Honestly, there's no middle ground with this perk. It'll either be too strong, or too weak with simple number tweaks.
Fast altruistic heals, infinite self heals, stacking with medkits, etc.
I can't think of any perks that have single handedly broken the backs of so many killers that has lasted this long.
People say, "just snuff it," not understanding the time a killer spends finding, reaching, and then snuffing is time you are essentially refunding for any time they spent blessing that totem.
People were excited for boons with certain beliefs in mind. 1) snuffing would break the totem. 2) you couldn't bless hexes.
I'm fine with the latter. I can't accept the former if they'll allow perks this strong.
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I just can't understand how BHVR simultaneously designs a perk like Hex: Plaything, a wonderfully designed and engaging perk but then also greenlights Circle of Healing.
Maybe there are also two perk designers, just like there are two writers for the lore.
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Boons were honestly a mistake with how they are currently designed. The fact killers have no way to take boons out of the game unless they happen to kill the survivor(s) with them yet their own hex perks are very easily removed is just not defendable.
Boons will never be okay until killers can actually have real counterplay to them.
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Boons as a general concept were terrible for the game and show a lack of understanding of how the game plays at a fundamental level. Killers simply do not have the time to be finding and crushing boons over and over. Survivors needed a secondary objective and instead we got literally the the exact opposite by giving killers a secondary objective when they already don't have time for the first one. Even with how long it takes a survivor to bless a totem and how quick it is for the killer to snuff it, it still ends up a net positive for the survivors. The only way it looks reasonable is if it's looked at from a 1v1 perspective without understanding it's a 1v4. That is to say it really isn't say 6 seconds to go out of your way to snuff a totem (and that's being generous), it's 6x4=24seconds for each survivor because that 6 seconds you spend is going to each of them to work on gens. That's more than 1/4 of a generator lost every single time you snuff a totem... There's also a few maps where it can be way out of the way on another level pushing this absurdity even further out of control.
The other boons stay more in check simply because of their power level (they're still unhealthy design though).
CoH is the main issue because it's so strong you're left in a lose/lose scenario by either wasting all that time breaking them over and over or giving them the permanent effect. CoH also single handedly destroys an entire play style in the game, that's bad design. Not to mention the killers that primarily rely on that play style were in general the weaker killers in the game already. CoH's shear existence in a match encourages un-fun playstyles from the killer (tunneling/camping) and discourages more fun play styles (hit and run pressuring, aka fun chases). Once again, bad design.
Honestly, just slap a further nerf to the power level of CoH since it's still very over tuned and make totems break when snuffed. That's the closest were gonna get to bandaid fixing this.
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Sometimes you need to camp/tunnel people out of the game in these scenarios.
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Usually I would dislike constant hate threads about a perk but god does CoH absolutely deserve it.
Can somebody at BHVR take one for the team and fire this perk into the sun for the sake of every killers enjoyment?
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The issue with the perk is not how fast it can heal, it's the fact that its infinite and spamable.
It gives such great value. Imagine if killers could reapply hexes. That's how stupid this perk is. and if you think 1 CoH is stupid, just remember you can have multiple Coh"s on a map.
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So one survivor is doing nothing the whole game cause you can snuff it out in 2s while it takes at least 20s ro relit. Sure thats OP LOL
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I do love it when they place their CoH smack dab in the middle of my 3 Gen though XDDDDD.
Seriously
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So it is OK for the designers to release a strong killer perk but it is not OK to release a mediocre survivor perk that is actually worth using for a change?
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The hit registration is terrible I had a survivor in a hallway with no where to dodge like it's not possible for them to do and me to miss and the puke went through them twice.
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And this perk alone made every m1 killer that relies on injuring as a playstyle much weaker .
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I fully agree
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It's not 2 seconds first of all, that's being extremely disingenuous. You're more likely looking at something of at least 6 seconds and that's probably the more favorable maps with many maps being significantly more than 6 seconds. Let's even use the more kind amount of 6 seconds with better maps and ignore the worse ones. The game is a 1v4, not a 1v1, so comparing 6 seconds to find and snuff to the time for the 1 survivor to bless is once again simply disingenuous or not understanding. A fair comparison would be 6x4 for each survivor because you are giving that 6 seconds when you snuff the totem to each survivor. So you are giving them at least 24 seconds of gen time minimum every.single.time you snuff a totem...
Yeah...that is OP.
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It could be 50% healing speed and it would still be op.
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Thread number 4,103 complaining about CoH.
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This perk and Dead Hard's massive surge in popularity with validation have completely sucked all of the fun out of playing killer
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The fact that the perk is allowed to exist in this form after 4000 threads of justified complaints is simply saddening.
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People complained after the ptb where boons were introduced. The devs nerfed them pre launch. They complained after launch. They nerfed CoH again saying that it might be nerfed more if needed. So what is sad exactly?
They've listened to the complaints and adjusted the perk. Not in the way some people want, but they have been working on it. To me the perk is entirely overrated and only becomes an issue when you have a 4 man swf.
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Plaything isn't a strong Killer perk, but it is a well-designed perk. You need to work for value.
CoH is anything but mediocre.
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It becomes an issue with just 1 boon, one guy spend the entire game booning while the others do gens and when injured run to the other side of the map and repeat.
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You are looking at it with a strong killer bias. Plaything is a slowdown perk giving killers a very strong advantage. CoH is nothing more than a healing perk and actually requiring finding a totem (not doing the objective) to get advantage from it. Killers are actually getting advantage from their perk normally from simply playing the game normally, which is extremely easy to do. It makes the killer much stronger without doing anything extra.
CoH requires finding a totem, then spending a lot of time blessing it. Plaything is stronger than CoH when looking at effort required from all parties involved.
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Yep and then we get survivors complaining about how killer camp and tunnel too much. I’m fine keeping CoH the way it is, but I am going to camp and tunnel survivors if it’s used in a match. More fun for everyone!
Post edited by Rizzo on3 -
As soon as I hear the boon sound, I instantly get the urge to d/c
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Survivors have strong perks already. But ofcourse new perks can not compare Dead Hard, DS, BT or CoH. Because this meta is pretty strong and new perks have not chance.
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I don't consider anyone's feelings when I'm making the correct/best play.
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Of course Plaything is stronger than CoH. CoH is 1 perk of 16.
"Nothing more than a healing perk" when healing is survivors #2 objective / timesink behind generators. I have watched so many teammates just go find my CoH and heal at it without me needing to do anything. I could just sit on generators the entire time, only a troll would sit here and argue it's not good.
But now that call of brine can basically give killers unlimited generator time with proper play, im actually OK with CoH giving survivors unlimited fast self heals.
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Except, the reward for Plaything isn't really as good as the reward for CoH.
We're both veteran players. We remember the original Self-Care nerf way back in the day. After speedy self-care was changed, there was a no heal meta, which is pretty much what we were in until CoH was released. Now, we have all the issues of Survivors focusing down gens, Killers camping and tunneling because they have no time BUT Survivors also get a massive power boost from being able to heal fast on-demand.
CoH isn't healthy for player fun. It causes many more fun Killer playstyles to be rendered completely irrelevant and promotes unfun tactics like gen rushing, tunneling and facecamping. This isn't a Killer vs Survivors issue Sluzzy, it's a player issue. We are ALL negatively affected by Circle of Healing.
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It is somewhat a team-based game more than ever, so if your perk is helping someone else heal then that helps solo more than anything. It is 16 perks < 4 killer perks. As in one Sloppy Butcher causes all 4 to be extremely slow.
That is exactly my point, killers get slowdown perks every game like Call of Brine.
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So its still an issue, even after a token efort to "nerf" it. And it doesn`t matter that they nerfed it pre-ptb and that they nerfed it more recently, its powerlevel was way above the curve to beginn with, so its not the number of nerfes that matter, but the quality (or lack there off). Imagine if something started of 500% of the powerlevel of everything else around it or in its class and they then took 15% off four times, it would still be way stronger then anything else, no matter that they nerfed it 4 times (BTW this is not a real number to reflect CoH power, its just used as illustration of a concept).
With CoH BHVR seems to miss the point entirely, its not the healing speed thats the problem, even though healing speed factors into it, but the way you can spam it and how every single survivor can benefit from it infinitely, leaving the killer between a rock and a hard place: leave it or snuff it. Even if they reduced the healing speed bonus to 25% or something, heck, even if they took the entire healing speed buff away, the perk would still warrant a spot in most loadouts. The nerf they did was laughable in the truest sense of the word and not worth the effort to modify the two lines of code.
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Killers were tunneling and camping before Circle of Healing. If survivors can't heal, you are basically walking around with killer having NOED. Of course killers would like that, but it isn't fun for survivors like that.
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ok some killers would like that, dont rope all of us into that
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Rarely they were doing that. Put of 100 games I played I only got a camper/tunneler r times....after CoH and MMR I get about 50 out of 100 games
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i would be willing to accept a COH revert if boons would break when snuffed.
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How many killers actually use slobby butcher? You can't use perks like that since you need gen defence and aura reading skills.
Call of brine is a good perk but it should be a basekit thing. Most survivors stay near gens that have good progress. You kick them boom you get info that someone went back and gen is finished.
I personally would not even use brine without pop.
Boons are a massive problem and causing unhealthy playstyles from killers. Not everyone enjoys tunneling but sadly it is something we have to do nowdays because there is no time to be fair and count hooks. Killers are allowed to play for win too.
I still try to be fair but most of my matches im against 1-2 booners 4 DH 1-2 prove thyselfs 3 DS at least some unbreakabillys you know the basic survivor get out of jail card and its very hard to play against those perks and be fair.
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The dev's know what it needs but don't want to do it for some reason. There are countless threads across all forums about how strong it is and how to nerf it.. or just delete it entirely. There are many youtube videos explaining how powerful it is and they got plenty of feedback during the ptb.
They ignored it all.
It is a large contributor to the decline in the playerbase.
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One survivor with CoH can provide unlimited heals to their team for a few seconds worth of gen time. With plaything, the killer has to spend time away from their objective (snuffing boon totems) to find and hook survivors, which takes roughly 8 pallets per survivor, and all the perk does is show them the aura of another totem to boon. There’s clearly a disparity here.
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The same way that they made Hex: Pentimento after COH was introduced.
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The same way they made Sadako after CoH 😐️
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True.
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The perk isn't even 6 months old. It's going to take time to find a way to balance it without making it utter garbage.
There's been tons of suggestions, but realistically every suggestion I've seen would render it so worthless it may as well be deleted.
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Killers did have something similar that was old Ruin: Undying. I find it hilarious that a Killer perk that was so similar to the Boon mechanic was basically gutted so shortly after release without the wait and see approach that people are saying that the devs are taking with COH. I also find it strange that the issue was that Survivors didn't have time to find and cleanse multiple totems but that doesn't seem to be an issue now as hard as it is to keep Hex perks active for any good length of time in most games these days.
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MoM was also nerfed really quickly after release and had a similar issue of making some killers much weaker since they had no way to bypass MoM M1 requirement.
The devs just don't seem to want to touch boons for whatever reason even though mechanically it's "counterplay" is straight up unfair to the killer.
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CoH needs a nerf, but I don't see a nerf that would make it weaker but remain semi-powerful. All the proposed nerfs I've seen would either kill the Perk or barely change it.
CoH either needs a whole rework, to get deleted or a whole new Perk type should be made just for it
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Good.
It's a badly designed perk and it could be dumpstered for all I care.
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Also Survivors are better then before... So it's not just the Perk (but I do understand the issue)
If COH came out before (like around the time Hag came out things would be different)
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