Camping issue
I see people on here have an issue with camping, and I do as well. So for a fix, if the killer is within a certain distance of the hooked person just make the hook timer stop? It doesn't seem too bad of an idea to me but what do you guys think
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It's abusable.
Post edited by Rizzo on17 -
It was tried survivors abused it next.
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If you saw all the posts about camping, you probably saw how often this was asked for and 90% of the answers were saying this would be abuseable, which it is
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What's worse than being camped?
Not having the killer near you, but your teammates still refuse to go for the unhook because they'd much rather use you as a "safe" point to run to any time they are chased... Until you die, of course.
That's literally how it went almost every game when they attempted that very "fix". It's difficult to say if the killer players or survivor players found it to be more annoying, but what is certain is that the experience was worse for everyone than camping.
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Tbh. Just taking out the hook grabs would improve the situation by a lot, imo. With hook grabs the camping killer is effectively guaranteed either a second person on hook or a kill on first hook - and if they're lucky they get both.
(Personally, I think this would also have to go hand in hand with a bt rework and removal/rework of the unhook-animation-invulnerability. But I do think these three things can be balanced against each other rather well if deincentivising camping/after-hook-tunneling is the goal.)
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On the other hand, If you are being actively chased by the killer and decide to try and go for the unhook while they are right behind you, the grab needs to exist so that bad play can be properly dealt with by the killer player. Otherwise we set up a system where solo survivors are being constantly farmed for points and unsafely unhooked whenever the other Survivors want to try and present a different target for the killer.
That's the issue a lot of these suggestions have. They are using a sledgehammer for the work of a cats paw. You end up either promoting unsafe unhooks, or no unhooks at all.
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Doesn't help with Leather Face, camping-extrodinair.
Built in Borrowed Time has been the best suggestion I've seen so far.
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That's a very good point and you're absolutely right. Both. - Didn't think about that specifically but after I realised that there's generally nothing "just" about "just removing hook grabs" I went and edited in the unhook animation & bt part in because I really do think those two aspects are also key (and are probably not the only other key aspects).
I'm on the fence when it comes to BT base-kit; it might be going a bit too far. Yes, it would help with that kind of Bubba --- but would be too much in other contexts simply because it frees a perk slot.
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The majority of deaths via camping are your teams fault for failing to save you. Of course there are exceptions such as bubba, but even he can be countered with BT, unbreakable, DS, correct team work and a bit of luck. But more often than not, with other killers, survivors simply misplay or use you as a resource. The blame should go to them, not the killer.
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The best fix probably would be make hooks function similar to Pyramid Heads cages....if the Killer stays too close the Hooked Survivor the hooked Survivor is teleported to a new location.
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That is not the case in my games. The games I'm seeing, the killer is face-camping. If you don't have borrowed time or decisive strike, face camping is not able to be countered, no matter what you do.
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I’ve countered it and have seen other people do the same. For example, all 3 survivors go to the hook, play the hook game, position and body-block accordingly. Can be done with 2 as well but it’s harder.
To counter camping, survivors must play out of their comfort zone and take a strategic approach, which is part of why it’s used as a pressure tool, because most survivors are stuck in their ways and won’t try to work as a team. Too focused on looping and gens to consider other elements of gameplay. Killers know this and take advantage of it.
Things of course get much easier if you just run BT, DS, DH unbreakable. You don’t even need to be good to with those perks.
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No.
What about camping in the end game? Or camping with a 3 gen?
At that point; it's the Survivor's bad plays that made it happen, and they don't deserve to be thrown a bone by having the hook teleport away.
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That's possible to do at EGC, to get a survivor out the door.
But any other time, all you are doing is giving the killer health states, not doing gens and losing the game for your team. All the killer has to do is hit everyone and keep going after the hooked survivor. You are basically throwing the game at that point.
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Why would you camp on a 3 Gen? Isn't the point of a 3 Gen is to force the Survivors to want to get hooked just to get the game over with. I mean that's how all my 3 Gens go as Vommy Mommy....mind you that's after 45 mins pass where I deny them a Gen muwahahahahaha.
But it's not throwing them a bone Pyramid Heads cages teleport to cancel out camping the cage anyway so the logical solution is to give the same thing to Hooks. Sadly camping is still camping, and most dislike that whole "strategy"
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Because, if I hook someone in the middle of a 3 gen; I can patrol the gens and the hook.
Who cares who dislikes camping? People dislike losing, and will try to remove the other side's ability to win. That's all complaining about camping is; a smoke screen for controlling how Killers win.
Remove camping; next up is tunneling.
Remove camping & tunneling; next up is slugging.
The reason PHead's cages teleport is because he does not need to actually hook a Survivor to use them. I absolutely refuse to accept hooks teleporting, because I know it will happen during 3 gens, and in the end game, and will teleport a hooked Survivor next to an open, of 99'd, gate.
At that point; the game is deciding I don't get that kill. Not me. Not Survivors. The game is deciding 'Screw you. This Survivor gets free.'
And the game should not get to decide if I get a kill.
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So I am guessing you are a Face-Camper. Like how you are defending Camping and Tunnelling and may I suggest that you either learn to chase the survivors (which honestly is the most fun) or click that uninstall and move on to a new game (leggo games I hear are fun.
The two that you cry about being changed first are things that do need to change because they just make the game unfun and people quit. If the killer slugs that is on the survivors because you were either all together or did not bother resetting. If you face-camp on first hook and 0 gens done just to win then good for you. If the are a SWF you may get another kill and that is all or you can possibly get a 0k if the group is very good. If you are all about the camping and tunnelling why would you keep playing because if it is boring for a survivor then is it not boring for you as well?
I would also like to clarify I do not cry a killer is camping if I see a teammate run right to the hook right after the killer hooks. I have played killer and been called a camp when the other 3 survivors were at the hook... What incentive do I have to leave?
In the end if you think this is good game play think why people are complaining so much about this? Also why is camping and tunnelling so common? Always remember Kill= Skill and a win is a win no matter if you have fun or not. Never learn and get better cause that is hard just sit and wait ;)
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Ah, the age-old 'I don't have an argument, so let me accuse you of bias' attack.
We're done here. I gave you valid reasons why teleporting hooks won't work, and you turn around and attack me, by saying I must camp if I disagree with you, and telling me to uninstall.
Grow up. You don't get to attack me just because I disagree or play in a way you don't like. I gave you valid reasons. You retaliated with ad hominems. This means you have no real argument other than your feelings.
Don't bother replying; I don't talk to people who's only arguments are personal attacks and 'YoU mUsT bE bIaSeD!'
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If you want to be "good" in a game you have to adapt to the game and not cry that the game is changed in the way you want it to be.
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If the timer stopped then "group up survivors" would punish a killer for capitalizing on their mistakes. If the killer sees scratch marks or hears footsteps then they're gonna look for survivors in this area to dramatically increase their pressure. Why should the killer be screwed over just because someone wants to be the Rambo medic? If the killer knows a way to use someone's game plan against them then they should TOTALLY punish them for being this predictable. You're gonna hate hearing this survivor mains but when you go for hook saves before the killer can even leave and they down you and your teammate easily they didn't "tunnel" they didn't "camp" you screwed up and they took advantage of it. (FYI borrowed time is not a get out of jail free card, you get a safe unhook but killers can easily down and hook you both if you're reckless with this perk.)
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1. The point of a 3 gen isn't to force anyone to want to give up, it's to have a defensive position where you can ensure the gates don't get powered before you can finish the survivors off.
2. Getting a hook inside a 3 gen area massively increases pressure, by giving survivors more to worry about, should they try and progress a gen a bit more, go for the really risky save, etc. Not only does it present a strong psychological advantage, it also gives a very real advantage knowing that 2 survivors at the least won't be trying to break your 3 gen defense.
3. Pyramid heads cages don't teleport to stop camping, they teleport because there's no DS risk and no worry about carrying to a hook, it's flat out easier to cage than it is to box, so they add conditions to the cage and make it teleport to make it so that PHead players don't just cage everyone. Also it's optional. The killer is never forced to use the cage, and therefore in a scenario like AK described they can choose whether to give up a save, or keep the pressure they've earned.
4. "Using" "quotation" "marks" doesn't stop something from being what it is. Camping is as valid a strategy as tunneling, which is as valid as gen rushing, body blocking by survivors, and flashlight saves. It's all part of the game and has been for 6 years.
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Camping isn't an issue. It's an intended strategy.
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What if kinship was changed to stopping hook progression while the killer is near you?
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True but having a 2nd perk that does almost the same thing to solve this issue would be baffling no?
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Can we also slow down gens while survivors are near them?
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What's worse than being camped?
Not having the killer near you, but your teammates still refuse to go for the unhook because they'd much rather use you as a "safe" point to run to any time they are chased... Until you die, of course.
That's literally how it went almost every game when they attempted that very "fix". It's difficult to say if the killer players or survivor players found it to be more annoying, but what is certain is that the experience was worse for everyone than camping.
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Part sarcasm, but part comparison. If you're going to slow the killers objective down because they're near it, why not survivors?
The punchline is: The idea makes no sense.
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As long as the game is survivor sided and gens are getting rushed in few minutes / broken survivor perks like COH and DH + toxic survivors with friends , killers will keep doing whatever it takes to get 1 player out of the game so they can have a chance at least vs 3 players and even then it's tough.
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This, or Breakdown being made into a game mechanic, with a cooldown that's brief, but long enough to prevent face campers from using the same hook. If they wanna camp, they gotta go to the next closest hook.
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So this was actually a thing?? First time hearing about this- wow.
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There was a breakdown bug that permanently prevented hooks from respawning. Resulting in complete areas with no possibility to hook a survivor.
Guess what happened.
Survivors were slugged and bleed out.
That's what your idea would bring us.
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Yeah, it was a mess, luckily BHVR were pretty quick to fix it. Unfortunately it seems they were too quick, since so many people forgot or just never heard about it.
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I'm not suggesting a perma-break for hooks for the entire match. I'm saying a very brief brief hook respawn period that prevents the killer from using that same hook immediately if they're facecamping.
The way they chose to implement a teleport with PH's cages if he stays in close proximity proves they CAN prevent camping. They just don't want to.
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Because unhooks should never be riskless. The cage turned rescues into something trivial.
Especially at the end of the game. The cage could spawn next to a powered gate.
That's why the devs don't change this.
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Incorrect. The cage rescues are an alternate way to remove the tormented status besides being caged yourself, and it also provides a massive shortcut for PH in eliminating the need to carry a surv to a hook, eliminating the risk of being blinded or hook sabo, etc. They aren't trivial.
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The devs still won´t change this. The whole cage thing was a test. They implemented the cage skill checks for the struggling phase, but apparently they were not happy with the rest of the cage performance. Or they would have changed hooks in favor of the cage.
Lets face it, hooks will stay just as much as camping. Because camping was a planned game feature from the beginning of the game.
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You’re only throwing the game if you misplay (or get outplayed) or if the killer uses camping at the optimal time and you play into it. You have to position correctly and body block accordingly. Sometimes it’s better to take hits than to let your teammate die on hook, sometimes it’s better to rush out gens and escape while the killer stands there. Camping has plenty of counterplay and it’s far from a guaranteed kill even if you’re perkless.
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