Penalty for Hook Camping
Probably 30-40% or more of the matches I’m in are hook campers, which ruins the game play.
A suggestion I have is this .. if someone is hooked and the killer stays within or lingers close to the hook radius of XX distance for more than XX seconds teleport them to the emptiest part of the map and disable any special abilities for XX seconds. Basically give them a penalty for camping.
I think that is fair and would discourage camping, and encouraging the chase and hunt the way it was meant to be.
Comments
-
No this does not work. Camping is needed at endgame a lot for killers or when survivors are swarming a hooked survivor.
7 -
BHVR has stated camping is an effective killer strategy, albeit frustrating for survivors. I think camping in and of itself is already a penalty, as most survivors just work on gens. If that survivor dies, yeah thats a massive bummer for that player and their team, but that's like killer mains suggesting something along the lines of "every time a survivor heals with a boon/uses dead hard, they should be negated for xx seconds/ have xyz disabled.
It sucks, yeah. The intrinsic ability to camp or spam in this game is one of its major drawbacks, but it's part of the game regardless.
3 -
There are conditions where camping the hook is needed more than being a disgusting player who just plays to embitter others' gameplay. There is a huge problem within the community where, as joschmoblo says, there is a huge % of killers who just camp the hook reasonless. What is the point then?
I don't think the solution is just to keep ignoring this behaviour as the rest is suggesting or arguing "its part of the game" or "devs allow it". This just means you live in a bubble
joschmoblo's solution is too hard but there must be a way where killers get less points or similar, make camping worthless
0 -
Kinship / Camaraderie basekit would be nice. It's a nice perk that punishes facecampers, and gets the team extra time to do gens or attempt a save. It doesn't do anything else besides slow down the timer by 34 seconds if the killer is within 16 meters of you. Though running it always feels like a waste, because the moment I equip it I get normal matches, and don't get any value out of it. Those 30 extra seconds can really make a difference, and it also indirectly lets perceptive players know someone is getting facecamped, by virtue of the slowed-down struggle timer.
Here is why I think this idea is at least worthy of consideration:
- Kinship basekit would not be OP, it only affects the struggle phase timer, doesn't mess with killers powers or abilities
- It doesn't require sweeping changes to existing code
- The code for the mechanic is already in the game
- It could easily be tried out on live servers for a few days or a week
- The Kinship perk itself could still work the way it does now, it would just add additional time, and wouldn't require a change
- It would not affect players who play the game normally, it would simply punish facecampers by wasting their time
- No new additions to the game would be necessary
- It seems like a fair addition from both the killer and survivor perspective
- It's a simple and straightforward buff that doesn't introduce anything new
So, is this a crazy suggestion, or does it seem reasonable? Any thoughts on this?
0 -
Wow, camping and tunneling, I havent heard people complain about that a lot...
Here is a bit of advice from a survivor main (I do play both sides, just I mostly play survivor). Just move onto the next match.
Camping and tunneling will always be a thing in DbD rather you like it or not, so it's better to just move on from that match and focus on the next one, try to avoid getting upset, since it is a game afterall, getting stuck on the same match over and over will only make things worse. Is camping and tunneling annoying? Yes, but who cares? It's literally just a game lol.
0 -
No all this would do is make the game easier for swf. I know face camping is frustrating and the devs are already on it. It just needs time to develop something that helps to prevent face camping without hurting the killer when you have legitimate reasons to camp and so that it can't be abused by Survivors. They already testet once to stop the timer when you camp and all that happens was survs instantly figured out that you can loop around the hook like crazy to prevent one from dying while the other two do gens so all the killer could do is giving a free unhook.
That doesn't sound so bad if they take care to prevent what I talked about above. So it only triggers once and it doesn't trigger if there are other survivor in the area
0 -
Right, it wouldn't completely pause the timer when the killer is near, it would just slow it down some. By the very nature of the perk, it would only trigger once per survivor, because you only get one struggle phase. Next time you're hooked, you're dead. It would not affect the first phase of the sacrifice process, and would only come into effect once you hit stage 2.
I'm not sure why having other survivors in the area would matter, if the survivors want to sit next to or run around a facecamper facecamping his survivor, that's a bonus for the killer, because the survivors aren't making good use of the extra time the perk provides. Why would having survivors in the proximity be a detriment? Sure, if the timer was completely paused I can see this being an issue, but we're talking an extra 30ish seconds of struggle phase, not an indefinite pause.
0 -
Well yeah if it's only once then sure you could scrap the survivor thing. On the other Hand swf will definitely troll you with hanging around just long enough to activate it and the run but technically they lose time with it
0 -
What I think it could have is that if the surv was camped on the first hook and the killer was close to this surv he wouldn't enter the struggle , like , time would stop, and for each completed generator it would be boosted too, that would force the killer to come off the hook even though they had generator delay perk
0 -
Quite trying to penalize killers. Compensate camped survivors instead.
3 -
First of; I am not a fan of your suggestion; considering that punished killers for something the game heavily encourages a killer to do. Is it not fun for everyone, No it is not; does it help them secure a Win and puts pressure on other Survivors, yes it does.
Second of; there are many others ways to help the killer put, so it more less incentives to face camp; but Devs have not created a good system or even a proper balance for 1 killer vs. 4 Survivors; especially in high ranks. So, get used to it!
The game is does more incentives towards Kills, over towards Hooks; so you better accept the fact that Camping will be fate of every entitled Survivor Main out there; until the Devs make some serious reevaluation changes to their SBMM and offer some significant buffs/quality of life improvement for killers; so that Killers are more likely less frustrated and more merciful to let the saves happen when necessary. So far, they have been doing a pretty good job so far!
0 -
Was already testet got abused by Survivors and got scrapt. Sadly bhvr said many times that often anti face camp ideas get scrapt because sooner or later survs find a way to abuse it
2 -
A good solution to facecamp : have a proper matchmaking which allows player to play against players from the same level and have a decent game.
But BHVR prefer to put red ranks SW4F against a bronze V killer which oblige him to facecamp right at start or he get nothing out of the game.
Also BHVR doesnt punish toxic survivor which also leads to facecamp.
1 -
Yes, DBD has this defect where you fix one thing and ruin the other, it's like hatch, after it's been nerfed it's almost impossible for two survs to escape the match alive, the ideal was that with each dead surv the gens would get faster to fix, but this is a subject for another topic, I just wanted to use it as an example, but back to the main subject:
The biggest problems of face camp are: killers that have instant down, catch, only one survivor can take another one off the hook, I would find it interesting if 2 survivors could take the one that is hooked at the same time, the removal could be faster and there would be 3 survs outside of generators, another problem is that the killer has a lot of generator delay tools, he can camp and do 2 or more kills without problems
Another idea that I thought would be the best in my opinion, was a buff on the "Slippery Meat" perk, so that when the killer stayed too long (about 10 seconds for example) near the hook, luck would start to increase by 1% every second , so that the surv itself tries to loosen up, a perk with this function would be better, so it would separate people who bother to take facecamp from those who don't care about it
1 -
To clarify, though, they also said they want to find a way to mitigate actual face camping where a killer just literally stands at the hook for two minutes because it’s boring for everybody involved. (The killer isn’t doing anything fun for two minutes, the survivor on the hook is just hanging there, and the other survivors are if they’re smart just doing the gens until the last second before doing a hook trade) They said they’ve experimented internally with some systems to reduce face camping but hadn’t found one they liked so far.
So they know face camping is “allowed”, but they do want the game to eventually have a systematic way to steer killers away from it.
0 -
I disagree, you're saying that the killer can camp in the end because he played badly the entire game, I don't think that's fair, even because when you have 2 durvs alive in the game, it's almost impossible to complete the gens and both leave the game alive, and if the killer closes the hatch the chances of the surv escaping alive is even lower, but he (or the team) was certainly not good enough to escape alive, it's the same thing with the killer, using facecamp to justify a match bad is the same thing as saying you're too lazy to train the game
0 -
BHVR has stated that camping is valid, but they also acknowledged that it is ruining a lot of the player experience and decidedly not fun.
But the thing is much bigger: most killers don't camp because they really enjoy the camping aspect, they camp because SBMM matches them with survivors who are too strong for them, too skillfull, too resourceful and who know how to loop them for eternity. Most killers, after an initial grace period of happy killing, will hit the wall of survivors true strength reality at full speed and suddenly feel like they can't get a foot back on the ground, not to speak from a solid stance, so they resort to the last method left to them: camping and tunneling.
So why am I writing all this? Because you can handle this in two ways: with the stick or with the carrot. Most people instinctively resort to the stick method, ie "I hate campers every other game! Punish them! Burn them!! PUUUUNISH!!!111"
But what would happen if you invent an effective punishment for camping and effectively take camping away from killers? All those not so hot killer players will suddenly have their last way of playing taken away from them, so even more will leave, and that in a time were Survivor ques during the evening are at a premium.
So my hot take: give killers the carrot. Make not-camping effective and worthwile. One of the best anti-camping perks in the game is Devour Hope: the killer gets massive rewarded for abandoning a hooked survivor and roam around the other part of the map. After a few undistrubed unhooks the killer gets a very cool reward with Exposed status, speed boosts and eventually moris. Sadly, we all know how durable Hex totems are: you either dedicate your whole build to them, or you can only use a very selected few totems, rendering all other dead weight.
But hear me out: give killers some sort of Devour Hope mechanic as base kit. Obviously not Exposed and moris, but let killers get a token of "Entities favor" each time a survivor is unhooked while they are 32m+ away and give them small bonuses with this token that counter the biggest gripe killers have these days: healing speed and gen repair speed.
Each token could give a 1.5% or 2% penalty to healing/gen repair speed, maybe throw in some bonus BP, too. This would give killers a strong incentive to not camp and also counter the dreaded "gen rushing, game over in 4min" complaint, ie drawing out the game in a meaningful way and giving every player ample opportunity to play the game.
Post edited by Akumakaji on0 -
sim, eu também acho que o problema do camping é que muitas vezes ele é vantajoso para determinados killers, teve uma vez que uma spirit campou 2 survs e eu e o dwight fizemos todos os gens e fugimos e ignoramos o camping, resultado final foi que nós caimos de ranking,e pontumaos poucos , certamente ela ganharia pontos com barbecue.
Once I made a post that divided opinions, the idea was that "Barbecue and Chilli" would only give tokens while no survivors were sacrificed or killed (if the surv of this DC the killer would continue to earn tokens), then the idea was to prevent the killer from who wanted to farm blood point not just focus on the same surv, forcing to avoid camping and tunnel on these occasions, even because it's a perk used by lower level players
I remember that I thought the old mori was disgusting, because the killers, knowing they wouldn't gain PP, used barbecue to farm blood point, while the survs besides losing PP didn't gain almost any blood point, it was really unfair, that kind of advantages unfair that should end up in the game
0 -
Survivors absolutely do not work on gens when there's a camping killer, because they're too altruistic. When I'm getting facecamped, my entire team is busy hovering around the hook being absolutely useless. GO DO GENS, YOU'RE MAKING THE KILLER'S TOXICITY PAY OFF.
0 -
generalize all you want, survivors absolutely Do get gens done. how else would any of them have ever won a round in the history of the game?
3 -
Or tailor a perk to combat hook camping. How about making Borrowed Time also give the person unhooking a survivor Endurance? Obviously the killer would be hot on the trail of one of them but then they would be in a chase rather than just taking turns to go on the hook. They could make it so when in a killers terror radius and also within a certain distance of a hooked survivor for a number of seconds the perk activates Self Endurance so that you cant just use it all the time but only when there's an active camper.
But then after the gates are opened this should be disabled as sometimes camping at this point may be the only way to secure the kill. That's fair enough.
Post edited by Orion172 on0 -
I agree that hook camping needs addressing. How about Making a perk like Borrowed Time have an extra part such as when a survivor with this perk equipped is within the killers terror radius and also within a certain distance of a hooked survivor for more than say 10 seconds it activates endurance for the rescuer also. That way it forces the chase and combats camping. But once Exit gates are open it doesn't activate cos sometimes camping is necessary then.
0 -
Increase Kinship to 24 meters and have it applied to both killers and survivors. Timer can remain the same. The only problem however, is if everyone's dead and you're the last survivor hooked. You're just wasting both you and the killers time then.
0 -
I don't think the killer is playing unfairly, what I mean is that this game has structures that simply compromise the fun of a game, I don't think anything wrong with a killer wanting to camp and tunnel after chasing a survivor for a long time, he wants to make sure his effort is rewarded, I think it's super fair.
The problem is when a killer has instant down or catches a surv right at the beginning of the game and keeps camping him until he dies and he can't do anything to get out of there or be saved, but contrary to what a lot of people say, I don't think it's wrong for the killer to do that, after all, the game is allowing it, and that's where things would need to be fixed
I still think the best idea was to increase 1% luck every second the killer was close to the surv giving him a chance to get off the hook by himself, if the killer wants to tunnel him later, so be it, survs who don't like it can use ds and unbreakble afterwards
I also know that there are many things that favor survs, and even when I play surv I don't like it, like the circle of healing for example (this detonates with M1's killers) but that's a subject for another topic, here we are are commenting on a solution to avoid abusive camping, but we know that many killer and survs things need to be fixed
0 -
There should be a 5% gen repair speed bonus for whenever killer remains within 16m of a hook for more than 5 seconds
0 -
I'll accept penalties to facecamping if the following changes are implemented:
1) Clicking a flashlight more than once every 3 seconds near or in view of the killer will cause the flashlight and add-ons to explode, which will also put the survivor in the dying state
2) Crouching more than ince every 3 seconds near or in view of the killer will cause the survivor to be inflicted with a 70% slowdown debuff for the next 10 seconds
3) Clicking a flashlight or crouching at all within 16 meters of an open hatch or exit gate will cause the hatch to be closed and the exit to be blocked for the next 20 seconds, as well as making the survivor exposed and moriable regardless of hook state or offerings
Do we have a deal?
0 -
Face camping and camping in general changes the flow of the game by forcing players to either abandon a hooked survivor and concentrate on generators (hence not getting any score in altruism) Trying the save knowing they will probably get caught, hooked and camped themselves or help the killer focus on one player and rehook them quickly to get the kill (hence little to no points for objectives).
90% of games with a camper the survivors are lucky to barely hold their pips, and it's usually a boring game with very little fun. And a lot of those games scores usually range from 5000 to 14 or 15000 whereas the killer gets around 20000. to me it feels like they are hijacking the game.
Yes the killer mostly gets a higher score than survivors for some reason but I have played many fun non camping games where 1 or 2 survivors escape and the killer still gets 25000 to 32000. and even if I get hooked and killed in those games ...... It's fun.
The 3 examples you say need addressing make absolutely no difference to the flow of the game.
0 -
Face camping or camping in general changes the flow of the game by forcing players to abandon a hooked survivor and just quickly get all the generators done (hence getting no points for altruism) Go for the rescue knowing the killer is sure to either knock down the rescued survivor and rehook them killing them quick or knock down the rescuer (and we all take turns on the hook, hence no points for objectives) Camping games are always boring and give very little points to all. camping killers usually get around 20000 pts. Survivors get between 5000 and 14 to 15000 usually losing a pip or barely holding on.
Whereas I've had many non camping games where 1 or 2 players survive and the killer can get up to 32000pts and all have had FUN. I don't mind being hooked and killed as long as the gameplay was FUN.
As for the 3 points you listed as needing addressing as much as face camping ...... they make no difference to gameplay whatsoever.
0
