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Hex Totem Locations
Isn't it better to make the closest Dull Totems to where the killer spawns to turn into the hex's? Instead of Hex's spawning right next to survivors?? Am I missing something here that should be so simple to implement
Comments
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It'd mean that survivors would know where the hexes are, guaranteed; they'd be the ones on the other side of the map, and there'd be no point even checking the ones they spawn near because they're guaranteed to be dull.
Essentially it'd remove what little RNG actually remains for hexes, and shove them firmly into the survivor's favour. Hexes do need work, but this isn't it imo.
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It would be better if hexs didnt spawn straight away. Even if they spawn 30seconds in at least it gives abit of time.
I ran an all hex build today, they didnt even last 1minute 😂
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I completely agree. There a few maps that I do not know where totems spawn but for the ones I do I always check the closest ones to me (so I can throw down my dirty Boons 👿). If I happen to find a shiny totem all the better killer is down a perk for the time being (even if its haunted ground shadow step means you can run and hide to wait the timer out while the killer either waste time looking for you if they hadn't seen you or hope they are in a chase with a healthy survivor so they can get some value out of it.
I personally do not have a problem with the killer being able to move their Hex. If you hex gets cleansed then you can place it on one more dull totems on more time then its gone for ever. That might help though a hex like undying should not be able to replaced as it can be deactivated by cleansing a different totem.
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In practice, this would give survivors a huge clue as to where your hexes are. If they see your leaving a certain area at the start of the match, they would instantly know where to find your totem.
But beyond that, the idea would fall apart with builds that have multiple hexes since the totems are spread out across the map.
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Give every hex totem get blocked by entity 2 minute.
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I agree with this, Corrupt Intervention for totems. So you can at least get some small value out of it.
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Thinking about a perk that lock all other Hex until that Hex is destroyed...
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While we’re on the subject (and I agree with what you just said), is there any particular reason some maps have certain guaranteed totem spawns? For example if I see Ruin on any autohaven map I always check TL tiles first because there is always a totem there 100% of the time; same with the hills on ormond or the upstairs library on midwich.
Even just making it so no totem spawn is guaranteed would be a good first step imo, even though that probably doesn’t fix the issue entirely.
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Unlike 6 months ago, you don't need hex totems to slow down games. So you need to decide if the risk of running a hex totem is worth it. You even have perks now that work well after a hex is cleaned (pentimento).
I think some totem spots should be better but I don't think we need to start blocking totems or making them spawn later.
We have Deadlocked, Corrupt, Pop, Pain Resonance, No Way Out, Dead Mans Switch etc if we want more reliable perks for gen defense.
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Generally speaking, there's no hard set rule that a certain totem must spawn in a certain place. However, the procedural level generation system is likely at fault if you notice a totem in the same spot very often. The key here is that it's procedural, not random, meaning it has a set of rules that it needs to follow. It can only spawn a totem on tiles that have a valid totem spawn point (such as the LT walls), and it'll also try to spawn a totem a certain distance away from any other totem (so they aren't all clustered together in one corner). Maps also have preset tile rules, so junk tiles (small loops, rocks or trees) can't spawn where the shack, a jungle gym, or some other landmark would normally spawn.
So even though there's nothing saying "This tile should have a totem", it's not impossible for certain tiles to have totems more often due to the rules the system needs to follow.
This is also partly why we try not to add a ton of rules to totem spawn points (e.g. Can't be within X meters of a generator / survivor spawn location). The more rules you add, the more predictable it becomes, and the easier it ends up being to find the totem. They're great ideas on paper, but in practice, it gets messy really fast.
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"Hexes always spawning far away from Survivors" is somehow a worse situation than "Hexes spawning directly next to survivors"?
Boy, that sure is some kind of a logical leap.
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I think 30 seconds would be plenty tbh
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It's "MIGHT spawn directly next to survivor" versus "ALWAYS spawning away from survivors". The consistency would make hex spawns not even slightly uncertain, which is materially worse than them being only kind of uncertain.
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Okay, thank you for the reply!
It is worse if it's guaranteed to spawn near the killer, yes.
Right now, there's a chance hex totems can spawn near survivors (or even in plain sight of their spawn points which is an issue), but it might also spawn somewhere else. If they were always near the killer then you would just figure out where the killer spawned and immediately go check there. That also falls apart the instant somebody uses 3 or more hex perks.
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Except, you won't know if there IS a hex or not at the start of the match. Survivors are going to split up and go onto gens like normal. If they then become aware of a hex, they have to leave gens to go looking. Even if they have a rough ideal where they need to look, it's still time taken going towards the killer and possibly exposing themselves to chases.
The idea that survivors are going to start every match by just running straight for the killer's spawn point to search for a hex that may or may not be there is absurd.
In EVERY case, not having a chance for your hex to spawn on top of a survivor is superior.
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Eh, not really. If you can narrow down the locations to a portion of the map, that's still an advantage. Whether its near the surv spawns or the opposite side, is only a matter of traversal time, and some of that might actually be offset by the fact that killer is almost certainly immediately vacating the region of the map where the hexes spawned, if you make them spawn near the killer.
Outside of the relatively rare circumstances where a surv spawns in line of sight of a hex totem, it's really not a big deal. It's really about the RNG of the individual hex spawns.
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That's not really the point, though- as soon as survivors know that there is a hex in play, right now they MIGHT need to go near the killer's spawn, or they MIGHT need to double back closer to their spawn. If hexes were coded to spawn near the killer always, that doubt is eliminated and it's just a matter of how long it takes them to get to the one or two spawns it's guaranteed to be.
Survivors spawning in view of a lit totem is a problem, but this isn't the solution. This is all setting aside that it physically can't function like this for an all-hex build, too, since there'd be too many lit totems.
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'Relatively Rare'? Have we played the same game? Hexes go down within the first 30 seconds of a match all the time.
It feels like I'm surrounded by crazy people. How can I spell out "hexes that don't get snuffed in the first 18 seconds of the match are better than ones that do"?
- Survivors do not get Lethal Pursuer. They do not know precisely where the killer spawns.
- Survivors do not know if a killer has a hex until they see some effect from that hex.
- Survivors are not going to drop everything to go search where they THINK the killer started for a hex instead of jumping onto generators.
- Even if survivors THINK there might be a hex and go to search right at the start of the match, that's going to bring them up against the killer almost immediately and they'll get chased right from the get-go.
- Even once survivors DO know that a hex is in play, they are going to have to still spend time searching for it, which is some amount of time not on generators.
The amount of backwards logic in this thread is mindboggling.
"If you can narrow down the location, it's an advantage."
Is that MORE advantageous than starting next to it and just popping it? No!
"If we bring four hexes, the 'spawn away from survivors' logic won't work!"
Yeah, no kidding. If you bring 4, you're expecting hexes to go down. there aren't 4 good hex spawn points on ANY map. If you bring that many, you're either playing wrong or you're taking protection hexes, at which point it doesn't matter where they go.
"If hexes don't spawn next to survivors, they'll know not to check where they started."
If it was near them, to begin with, it would've been snuffed half a minute into the match! The point is that they have to go out into the map to look for it. That means not working on gens and exposing yourself to being caught out in the open.
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Having a surv spawn literally looking at a hex is relatively rare, yes. I think people get get imprinted by instances where their hex goes down immediately, and tend to forget when it stays up for half the match. RNG cuts both ways.
It's not specific, but generally the killer and survs will spawn fairly far from each other, and the generally safe assumption is that unless the killer is the trapper, they'll immediately start moving to where the survs are most likely to be (the other side of the map). And imo, random is always going to be better; sometimes it will be close, others it will be on the opposite side of the map, you don't know, and that's the point.
By far the bigger factor (imo) in why hexes go down early is their precise placement, i.e. right out in an open spot with no visual obstructions vs. tucked in a hidden spot. This is how they are found by survs not specifically looking for them most often, imo. Just because a totem is closer, doesn't necessarily mean it will be easier to find.
All killers have had the experience where the hex spawns right next to you, but is so obviously placed that you know it's going down almost immediately. And then it does.
And if the survs are looking for them, and experienced, they're going down quick, whether it's 20 seconds or 40, you're not getting much value. And in the current meta, I would assume at least a couple of survs will immediately start looking for totems in every match. Frankly, it's just a bad meta for hexes in general, and boons are the main reason.
If you're convinced that there is a problem in need of addressing, set up spawn locations that only have a narrow line of sight, so you have to be actively looking for them, and can't clearly see them from like 30 meters away. Hide them better.
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"Do it better" has ALWAYS been the real answer. But because the idiotic coding for hexes has never been fixed since day one, the devs are either incapable or unwilling to actually fix the "not hidden in the slightest" problem totems have. There's a ton of better ways to do things and hundreds of posts suggesting different paths, any one of which would be better than the system we currently have. But all of those require actual work.
Ergo, OP's suggestion of "Just always put it next to the killer" is infinitely better than "just trust to luck that you don't lose 25% of your perks in the first 30 seconds of the match."
It's objectively better for survivors to have to LOOK than survivors being just gifted free hexes to snuff. This is indisputable. Are there better solutions? Sure! TONS of them! Since none of the more complicated solutions are even on the radar; this suggestion - the easiest, least complicated solution - is still better than what we have now. And having people, including Devs, drop in to say "oh no, see, there are PROBLEMS with this idea," is so infuriating.
Like, the way things are now SUCKS. Just because another path might have some down sides doesn't mean it should be tossed out. Even bad alternatives are better than the way things are.
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Just need to wholly rework totem spawns, really. You shouldn't be able to come across a totem while playing normally, there should be always a bit of effort required from survivors for them to find one.
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At the risk of beating a dead horse, let me add some quick math:
Cleansing a totem takes 14 seconds. If a survivor starts next to (or in direct line of sight) of a totem, they can start that cleanse the moment the game gets underway. Let's be generous and say that that it takes them 4 whole seconds to walk over to it (16m away). So that's 14-18 seconds before the totem is gone.
Killers can see their totems from across the map. If a killer spawns in and walks directly towards the totem at 4.6 seconds, they can cover 64-82m in the time it takes for a totem to get snuffed.
Now let's consider maps. While map size varies, if we exclude The Game and Midwich, the average size of a map is a little over 10,000m2, which is roughly 100m end to end. It's extremely unlikely for a totem to spawn in an uninterrupted path, but let's ignore all the intervening terrain, the multiple levels on many maps, and the extremely likely diagonal the killer would have to take to reach and just work under the best-case scenario: 100m end to end.
Now, most survivor/killer spawn points and totem spawn locations aren't right at the end of the map, but a little ways away from it. So let's go ahead and shave that down by 8m on either end, for a grand total of 84m between the killer and the survivor-spawned totem.
84m for the killer to travel, and 82m that they can go before the totem gets snuffed. RNG can literally spawn you into maps where your hex gets immediately broken and there is nothing you can do to stop it. And it's even worse if you're playing a 4.4 killer.
That means, even under the absolute most favorable conditions, a survivor can STILL snuff a nearby totem before most killers can get to them to stop it. Unless you're playing one of the, like, 5 killers with super speedy travel options, you can get into a game where the game decided you just don't get a hex.
Imagine, if you will, a system that randomly removed one of the perks from your load out. Even if this was very, very rare, you wouldn't say that's a "feature" of the game. You'd call that a bug. Any time the game can randomly generate such that one of your perks provides no benefit and is removed before you can stop it is a failing of game design.
You don't like the "spawn hexes next to the killer" suggestion? Great. How about "spawn hexes within 60m of the killer, so they can actually get to it and stop you from cleaning it" instead?
So that, you know, the game doesn't randomly decided to delete one of your perks.
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this could be a perk
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this could actually be an interesting concept for a perk ngl
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30 seconds is reasonable, it gives the killer time to check their totems.
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give the possibility to put the hex totems to the killer where he wants only once, to, I bring the ruin, I decide where to place it as if it were a trapper's trap and at what moment of the game, without being able to move it further but, I'm fed up with 6 years of play with the same spawn totems
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Okay so I think there should be a perk that blocks access to all totems for a specific amount of time or something that renders hex totems invisible for a specific amount of time. Whenever I play killer, the 4-man SWF's always seem to locate every single totem as if they've memorized the locations (that needs to be fixed as well). I've memorized the vicinities but not the actual locations.
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It wouldn't make much a difference anyway. Most totem spawns are bad. Over half of them are next to gens.
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A lot of replies, don't see going in depth will get any word across, but I definitely think Hexes should be more favoured to the killers side of the map at least like someone suggested, it shouldn't choose the closest totems next to the survivors at all but it can still be "RNG" based which is your main factor for some reason and be a totem anywhere in the killers side of the map
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I would say it does not matter where totems are because of the sound that hex totem emits. Its what makes hex totems so easy to find. If they're trying make hex totems harder to find, they'd need remove hex burning sound. The totem spawning on generators is salt on wound.
they could always bring back old hex:undying to improve lifespan of hexes. I would say that hexes are suppose to be time-consuming to remove rather than impossible to find. finding one totem is just not very time-consuming to eliminate a killer perk for minimal time investment especially if it spawns on generators...
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hex totems should not light up either.
Remember when totems would spawn on the hill like candle on top glowing and making noise, not even remotely hidden LOL at least locations have improved, but any lit toem is so easy to find once you know tiles makes them not even a challenge imo
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As a base mechanic it would be too strong for some build combos. I think 60 seconds max. if it would be overall game buff, not a perk.
However as a perk, that sounds good for 2 min.
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