Is camping and tunneling now staple in killer matches?
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Right. So with Deadlock if you are splitting gens doesn't work b/c it blocks each gen (30 seconds) back to back buying the killer more time to camp (I.E. have enough time) to camp the next person.
Sounds to me like you don't understand how perks work.
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Camping at 5 gens, not at 5 gens, what's the big difference?
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Splitting up counters Deadlock because it only blocks the Generator with the most progress. If multiple Generators are being worked on, Deadlock isn't going to buy much time.
Once again, it seems like you don't know how to play efficiently
Post edited by ThatOneDemoPlayer on2 -
Only if people are waiting between each gen being completed, if all 4 survivors started each repairing a gen at the same time, then 1 would be completed, 2 would get blocked, but 3 and 4 could complete while 2 is blocked. Happens all the time.
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We're currently discussing Deadlock being used while camping.
4 Survivors being on gens would be impossible.
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Okay so gens 1 and 3 get done 4 has to wait a bit
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Pretty much.
More realistic would be:
Gens 1 and 3 get done before the first Hook.
Survivor gets hooked.
Gen 2 gets done once the Survivor remains on the Hook for about ~30 to 45 seconds.
Then 4 gets popped as the Survivor gets rescued.
Gen 5 gets popped once Killer gets their second Hook
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Your absolutely right. Killers get a whole new set of perks every single patch with 1 or 2 of them becoming meta or at least usable. But god forbid that survivors get anything and the killers will come on here and whine and cry until it's removed.
I play both sides but the blatant killer-sidedness of these forums is almost comical. Think about it. Every single patch, killers get several usuable perks and usually at least one meta perk. However, survivors have only had 2 f*cking meta perks in the last 4 years. Circle of Healing and Windows of Opportunity. Not a SINGLE meta perk in between.
And killers are doing their hardiest to get the only new meta perk survivors have had since June 2018 removed from the game.
It's like 2 brothers in a family, the golden-child gets a Ferrari every year while the other sibling hopes the family doesn't give his honda accord he got in June 2018 away to his brother.
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Camping and tunneling is the only viable option for killers if they play to win, especially at a good level. If they don't do it they get a gen rush.
Devs have never addressed the game design to allow better gameplay interactions between the killer and the survivors so the gameplay is now frustrating for bot hsides 90% of the time.
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Your claim about the forum being killer biased holds about as much weight as your claim that there is no evidence that DH is the best exhaustion perk (despite the devs literally calling it problematic and clarifying what they mean, various metric sites, etc).
Fun fact - Only two users have used the term 'bias' in this topic, both portraying killers in a negative light - you and Johnny_XMan.
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No one cares. Still going to happen. Play something else
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At first I thought "every single patch" was just a typing error, then you repeated the exact same claim again. Not only is that not even remotely true. (Nobody's getting a new perk every single patch, much less a new set) it really shows your own mindset. Don't even have to go that far back, patch 5.3.0 didn't have a single killer perk. That was 5 months ago. I'm not even counting the countless bug fix patches in this either, which make your claim even more ridiculous. If you want to talk about bias, maybe examine your own first.
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Can you support that claim?
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Bruh, this. Before boons were a thing, I remember after each chapter being "oh, survivor perks are ok but i dont think i'll use them much... damn killers got really good perks" and moved on. When boons got implemented i finally said that it might be worth using, then back to nothing really interesting or truly useful, even the new boon, the speed boost is barely helpful, I rarely see it used. Killers keep getting super useful perks every time, most if not all their perks in the last chapter are super good. And yeah, unfortunately most of the threads in this forum are complaints against survivor perks. I made a thread saying the scourge hook+DMS meta was boring to see match after match, and they said that survivors meta is more boring because we use the same perks over and over... have they stopped to think why? cause most people find the other perks not useful (I say most people because I, and im sure other people like me never use DH, DS, BT,UB, whatever they say is OP) but isnt it damn sad that we just get filler perks that work ok but not good enough to want it in our build? Then we get ONE perk that most survivors find useful after all these years and they want it gone.
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LOL support my claim lmao my bad im out of fresh trapper scientific researches. Just because the killer is slow at the beginning of the game doesn't mean he can't get kills in those maps. That map has MANY default vaults and pallets that you can strategically trap or lure to a nearby trap, 2 (or 3? i forgot) houses have default pallets, killer shack and the main building is full of default pallets and one default vault.
A trapper main replied to you as well, you should read it.
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I mean that’s the problem, you said it yourself, there’s lots of resources on that map, trapper doesn’t have the capacities to deal with a map like that. Also could you link what this trapper main said to me since I don’t see anything.
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Don't waste your time on someone that thinks Hex: Huntress Lullaby is useful
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I should clarify, every killer release patch, I would assume that was implied since no one receives perks on non-killer release patch. Here, Let me list them for you.
- Onyro - Merciless Storm (Scourge Hook: Floods of Pain is a very usuable perk)
- Patch 5.5 - Dead Man's Switch (Got buffed into a meta perk and not even a Killer release patch)
- Artist - Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance
- Pinhead - Deadlock, Hex: Plaything
- Nemesis - Lethal Pursuer
- Trickster - Starstruck
- Twins - Didn't really get a meta perk but I like Oppression a lot.
- Blight - Undying
I can keep going down the list of killers if you want but I think you see my point. In that entire time, survivors got Circle of Healing, the only fresh new meta changing perk in 4 years. Kate Densen, with Windows of Opportunity is 9 more killers back, while Killers meta has been fresh and changing that entire time.
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So your issue is that new killers come with perks? Most of those aren't meta, and Undying isn't anything like it was on release. Last few survivors have also all gotten good perks. From boon: shadow step and CoH, to flash grenades that can be made almost at will. And let's not forget exponential, which is UB on steroids, and corrective action, which literally stops potato teammates from giving your position away, and it seems lately both sides are eating well at the perk buffet.
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Oh whatever, killer-players once again screw survivors over. Congratulate yourselves on destroying the only meta perk survivors have gotten in the last 4 years. Glad the developers cater to you all like lapdogs.
All those perks you mentioned are crap and you know it.
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Again, back to that bitterness and bias. Killer players didn't do anything. I don't know if you're aware, but maining either side doesn't give you the ability to nerf perks, that's fully on the dev team. If they did "cater to killer players like lapdogs" as you claim, I highly doubt DH would still be in the state it's in 5 years after release. Fact is they don't cater to anyone, they just try the best they can to keep all the plates spinning.
Flashbang is in every survivor build I have. It's a free blind that you don't have to forgo taking a medkit or toolbox in to take advantage of. Boon Shadow step literally cancels out jumpscare Myers, as well as BBQ and any other aura reading perk the killer may have. Not to mention the utility of having scratches hidden. I'm not going to go back and list every other fantastic perk survivors have gotten in the last 4 years, because I have real world ######### to do, so I'll just leave it at this.
You are being ridiculous. Acting like a victim because a single perk was changed, when most of the community as a whole, and clearly the devs as well agreed a change was needed. Blaming people who pick killer for changes the devs made, and furthering the us vs them bullshit that infects this forum like a cancer. Hopefully one day you'll look back at your posts here with a clear head and see the light.
For the record, though it doesn't matter, 80% survivor, 20% killer over here, but I know you enjoy pretending anyone who disagrees with you is just some salty killer main who thinks they deserve a 4k every game or whatever, as that's the toxic bullshit you and those (thankfully) few others who can't handle the idea that they may just be incorrect love to spread.
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I like Cyndi Lauper
Seems relevant ;3
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Oh yeah, the daily b*tching from killer players about Circle of Healing, had nothing to do with it. Let's face it, the killer-players, specifically on these forums got Circle of Healing nice and nerfed.
Don't worry, I'm sure Dead Hard will be nerfed too, just like every other perk the killer-mains don't want survivors to have.
Just because you use Flashbang and you use Boon Shadowstep, doesn't make them meta perks. Those perks are situational at best.
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I am part of that small subset of people that had no idea who she was until she showed up at WrestleMania.
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That's right, I forget you get to decide what perks are worth anything and what ones aren't, just as you've decided that the devs are intentionally trying to make it so that the game isn't fun for 80-90% of their player base by catering to the 5% or so who actually play only killer. Despite logic, facts or what anyone else says, you remain steadfast in your beliefs.
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All those Perks you mentioned are crap and you know it.
Funny you say that after mentioning Merciless Storm, Scourge Hook: Floods Of Rage, Hex: Plaything, Lethal Pursuer, Starstruck and Oppression
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As you can see, Boon: Shadow Step and Flashbang are not Meta or "Most effective tactic available". I'm not the one deciding what is and isn't meta, it's how much these perks are used. I can't believe I'm actually arguing with you about Flashbang and Boon: Shadow Step being Meta perks when you say you play survivor.
I picked the lowest ranked meta perk to compare Boon: Shadow Step and Flashbang to, in percentage of usage (Technically, I would consider Kindred meta and it's slight lower than Windows of Opportunity, but it's meta for solo queue and not SWF).
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It is still buying the killer enough time to get another person.
Once again, your “1 kill at most” strat is already outdated.
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Only if 1 Survivor spawned on Hook, which they don't. The first chase always takes around 1-3 gens, which means Deadlock won't save enough time to get another person
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Interesting, what's your source for that image?
Also, kindred is really that low used? Solo must be less popular than ever.
My general build is as follows.
Kindred, lithe, Flashbang, Survival Instinct/CoH (last 1 changes based on whether I'm feeling altruistic, tbh, if I'm not particularly feeling like a team player, I'll slap on IS)
I'm not claiming that they are all meta perks. (Though Kindred absolutely is, especially for solo) In fact I know lithe definitely isn't because DH is, I just prefer my speed boost to be something I can do when uninjured. I will argue against Flashbang being situational, or at least argue that it isn't any more situational than any other perk that is considered meta, like DS. Blinding the killer has 1001 uses 😉 I'd also argue that when DH is adjusted, it won't be sprint burst that brings all the Survivor boys to the yard, and lithe will finally get the respect it deserves.
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lol we’re putting our own spin now?
I mean it would be if that one scenario was there only scenario out there, which it isn’t.
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Sorry about being so b*tchy earlier. It just sucks that the developers will go and nerf something like Circle of Healing to Self-Care yet won't do anything about face-camping and tunneling-off-hook-till-dead at gen 5. And it sucks the entire survivor meta is so old.
I play both sides but anymore, I just don't want to play the game. Survivor is stale and Killer I don't get to play with my friends. Although I do like Sadako.
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So how bad is your team if 3 people can't finish at least 1 gen in the time it takes you to lose 2 chases back to back, get carried to the hook, and be put up?
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It's still faster than Self-Care. The only thing that got changed is that it can't be placed willy-nilly anymore
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It's ok.
As far as CoH, it's still a bit faster than self care at least, and still works on the whole team, but it's odd thats the route they went when they were given so many options for a good change, including McLean's idea. I think a lot of the reaction is overblown, and like with DS, after a couple of weeks of people saying the sky is falling they'll realize it's still a solid option.
Tunneling and camping? I mean, with camping they've tried a few things, but it always gets so badly abused that they have to revert. Tunneling I honestly can't think of a fix that wouldn't rob the killer of the ability to pick targets, and I don't think taking choices out of the game helps anyone. Even the idea of making BT basekit, while good in theory, I can't help but feel will lead to survivors farming each other for points and doing the dumbest of unsafe unhooks.
Personally I've started to just ignore the survivor meta. I figure which perks go with my natural playstyle (generally altruistic, always down to break a totem) and go from there. I think a lot of the "meta" on both sides is just bullshit that's popular because popular streamers say that it's the best.
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If you consider the 14 seconds to bless it, 21 seconds to use it, which is 35 seconds, then you add the time to get to the aura which I would say is around 8ish seconds on average, Self-Care by itself will be better. Since Self-Care is considered a horrible perk, Circle of Healing would also be a bad perk to use.
The logical choice would be to use a medkit, put on gen-speed perks instead of healing perks and be done with it.
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Yes, the first time using it will take longer than using Self-Care, but the long initial activation balances the speed at which you will be able to heal after, which is way shorter than Self-Care
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Oh so it's survivors being bad right?
It doesn't matter that the killer is bad because they are using an unbalanced playstyle right? Not that at all that.
Nice missing the point. Coming from someone who calls other members biased.
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Self care would be better for you specifically, (or SI) for your team as a whole, CoH still holds the edge. Also because self care doesn't help your teammates heal you faster, but CoH still does.
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Well yes if you want to win, that is a part of the game and one of the most effective ways to win as well. It may suck but that is what the meta has turned to.
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Yes. If 3 people can't get a single generator done in all the time it takes to find, hit twice, pick up and hook their teammate, that's absolutely on them. You can claim the killer is playing an "unbalanced" playstyle, but at this point we aren't even talking about camping or tunneling, just the literal time it takes to catch a survivor twice vs fix a single generator once. (As the statement you tried to contradict stated "The first chase always takes around 1-3 gens") Unless you are playing against an instant down killer, you should almost always have the first gen done by the time the first hook happens. If the killer then starts camping, you should have plenty of time to do at least 2 more before your teammate dies, even if you are the literal worst at spotting them.
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You are describing a very specific scenario to fit your opinion.
I am talking about how those perks have made the playstyle even more broken. By the time the first person is dead, the camping killer has bought enough time via perks like Deadlock and NWO to easily get a second kill. Through means of camping which is already a playstyle they are looking at.
Maybe follow the conversation before deciding you wanna chime in.
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Your ######### attitude doesn't actually make you correct.
The first chase isn't a "very specific scenario" it's literally the first chase. As in the first time a survivor is chased by the killer in the match. Unless you are playing against basement bubba or afk pig, it's going to happen in the match.
I did follow the conversation. The statement was made
"The first chase always takes around 1-3 gens"
You then said "I mean it would be if that one scenario was there only scenario out there, which it isn’t." In a direct reply to that statement.
Which doesn't actually make much sense, (because again, were talking about the First Chase) but I gathered you disagreed. So I pointed out that if your team can't get at least 1 gen done during the first chase (which again was pointed out by thatonedemoplayer as always taking 1-3 gens) that means your team is bad.
You then tried to turn that into somehow the killer playing unfairly, which again, doesn't make much sense when discussing the first chase, which by definition happens before any tunneling or camping.
So I pointed out again that I am backing up thatonedemoplayer's point that the first chase takes 1-3 gens, and yes, if your team can't get a single gen done during that first chase, that's on them.
Deadlock only takes effect after the first gen is completed, so it doesn't effect whether or not you can do a single gen in that first chase. NWO is an end game perk, so I hope I don't have to explain how that doesn't effect gens being done either. I imagine your back must be sore from moving those goalposts so much, so I hope you are least are having fun doing so.
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I never said my " " attitude makes me correct. That is your statement, a childish one at that. Then again, it is the forums so I am not surprised at all.
The fact that you imply that every 1st chase takes 1-3 gens is wrong. When a lot of what happens in that first chase weighs heavily on RNG of map , RNG of perks, RNG of pallets. None of which you know ahead of time.
I also didn't try to turn it into "The killer is playing unfairly" I said Camping is an unbalanced playstyle because it is. It was not connected to the first chase comment whatsoever.
The point I was making was simple. The survivor camped has 120 seconds on hook time to give to their teammates to complete 5 generators. All 5 generators combined take a total of 400 seconds. Each survivor has to repair a total of 133 seconds in order for all of them to be completed. If Deadlock gets activated at least twice (which is more than that depending on RNG) The total repair time per survivor is 153 seconds. That is still way more time (longer than 120 seconds) than what it is needed in order for 1 single survivor to commit to repair time. Not when this perk has forced 1 more survivor to take another chase, because the camped survivor is already gone.
So, when I say things like "You are using very specific scenarios to fit your opinion" what I am really saying is you aren't following the "math". Only spouting your own narrative to fit into "Well if the survivors can't finish 1 gen then they are bad" when in actuality it was not what was meant through my wording at all. YOU spun it that way so it makes sense in your scenario.
Also those numbers do not include the (hypothetically) 1 stack of NWO and No Ed that could be in play. Which further encourages that playstyle.
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If that is true. Then why was this the comment you replied to?
"Only if 1 Survivor spawned on Hook, which they don't. The first chase always takes around 1-3 gens, which means Deadlock won't save enough time to get another person"
See. It wasn't even me who implied the first chase takes 1-3 gens. It was another poster, and he didn't imply #########, he straight out said it. What I said (again, directly stated, not implied) is that the first chase should take at least 1 gen. (Which means I'm actually taking the lower number of the range given in the previous comment) now you want to bring in 5 gens and camping, with 2 very specific non meta perks, and we're the ones bringing up "very specific scenarios" really?
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You said you agreed with them didn't you?
Does it matter if you originally implied it or not? Don't backpedal now.
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I'm not sure you understand what implied means.
Again, I didn't imply anything. I flat out stated that a survivor team should have at least 1 gen completed by the time the first survivor is hooked. I'm still waiting for you to explain how exactly, that is not the case, but it seems you would rather move onto your specific example of camping killers using off-meta end game perks.
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As I said before, maybe before you chime in next time, understand the context of the things that are being talked about.
Why? Because those perks were brought up for a reason. That is to explain where I feel (my opinion) that the whole "Camping killers get a 1k at most" is an outdated statement because of perks like Deadlock and NWO. So if you wanna know why those two perks were brought up that is why.
The comment you agreed to didn't state 1 gen, it stated 1-3 gens. Need proof?
My reply to that comment is what you replied to and backed them up on btw. Emphasis on "always".
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I am irrationally upset right now T_T
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Yes, it does say 1-3... As I already explained, I was taking the lower number in the range. I did that because I agree RNG is a factor, and 1-3 seemed a bit more broad than what my own experience has shown.
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