CoH Nerfed! We Won Guys, We Won!

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13

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  • AlbinoViera
    AlbinoViera Member Posts: 169
    edited March 2022
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    Doesn't this change do practically nothing to address the issue that people have with CoH?

    It's still a 48m wide boost to heal speed that will still counter hit and run as a strategy almost completely. I mean, it can still be put up as many times as a person wants, and it still allows survivors to run to a zone to reset. It'll still be more efficient than being healed up by a teammate normally and it'll still allow people to self-heal in around 10 seconds, most likely less, with any medkit.


    Wouldn't it have been better to keep the boost the same, but make it so it doesn't apply to healing yourself? Or just let a Killer break boon totems (With appropriate changes to balance said ability)?

    But that's just my opinion on the change without testing it out. Who knows? Maybe with the new Hemorrhage, that most people will likely ignore, it'll be worth it.

  • LunarWendigo
    LunarWendigo Member Posts: 77
    edited March 2022
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    Boop deleted. Nerf is a nerf I guess

  • JeanCharpentier
    JeanCharpentier Member Posts: 370
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    Finally, after months of complaints... terrible to take so much time to understand that it was clearly OP.

    Experienced players knew this from the PTB version of it... those devs are really miles away of knowing what balance means.

  • SuzuKR
    SuzuKR Member Posts: 3,910
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    DBD Forums stop using whataboutism challenge (impossible).

  • deKlaw_04
    deKlaw_04 Member Posts: 3,660
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    Why can’t they buff the other perks? Why can’t they make the aura reading permanent for aftercare? We need buffs like that

  • AsherFrost
    AsherFrost Member Posts: 2,340
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    People like to claim that, but a while back I actually ran the numbers, and it's about even. The biggest determining factor in how many new threads are created to complain about a perk/strategy/power/item is how long the thing being complained about has been in the game, side averages out to even.

    Makes sense, given that every time any sort of poll was done it was found that the vast majority of people here play both sides, around 85% in fact. People enjoy claiming the forum is sided one way or another just as they do the game itself, however in both instances the truth is quite a bit more nuanced than that.

  • MissBehavingX
    MissBehavingX Member Posts: 493
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    People say they play both sides but mostly will incline / prefer one over the other, I have played killer and even used to main it, i go back to it once in a while but I say im a survivor main because thats what i prefer ATM, but on a poll asking me what I play i would have to say both. It does seem that most post are killer inclined, just see the "yay coh is nerfed" threads vs the "coh is dead" threads, if there were as many survivor mains there would be around even threads, especially since its such a common/used perk

  • FFirebrandd
    FFirebrandd Member Posts: 2,445
    edited March 2022
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    They aren't intentionally screwing over Survivors.

    It comes down to the baseline of Offense, Defense, and Recovery options available to Survivors. Their offense (gen speeds) are generally good enough. Their defense (looping, pallets, windows, holding W) is also very good. Their Recovery options aren't bad... at base healing is decent and Medkits are very good. However Survivor Recovery has one massive glaring hole. Once a survivor loses a hook state, that's it, they can't get it back. Once the Survivor team loses a member... that's basically it... the Killer has probably won at that point. To make matters worse, a Survivor is basically in the worst position the could be right after getting unhooked. They're injured, they're loud, they're bleeding, they just caused a loud noise so the killer knows where they are and that they're a potential target again and... honestly the best target if the Killer is going for winning no matter what.

    That's why the Survivor meta is what it is. They run the best, most reliable ways to bail themselves or their teammates out of that terrible situation. The other exhaustion perks are good and can be as impactful as SB or DH but none of them can reliably used right after getting unhooked so they see much less usage. Borrowed Time is nearly a must if the Killer is camping or returns to the hook. Decisive Strike is still meta despite its nerf because its the only perk that can reliably slow down a Killer who's dead set on tunneling. Adrenaline can result in a Survivor coming off hook fast and healthy. Then Unbreakable is used to try to break a Killer's other win condition of "Have everybody in the dying state".

  • AsherFrost
    AsherFrost Member Posts: 2,340
    edited March 2022
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    CoH is a perk that even streamers who only streamed survivor gameplay admitted was busted, so I'm not that surprised at the reaction. Also you are leaving out the threads pointing out that CoH isn't dead, it's still a fantastic healing perk that helps the whole team, but some confusion over how percentages are calculated in DbD has lead a few people to the incorrect belief that it is now slower than self care. (Which, even if it was, self care is only useful when healing yourself, where CoH helps all forms of healing)

    I've counted so far.

    6 threads saying the nerf is no big deal, and the perk is still good.

    9 threads complaining that the nerf was unwarranted or too stiff.

    6 threads saying the nerf was good (also counting the one nut who thinks the perk should have been removed entirely)

    So there we have it. That's how horribly killer sided the forum is, which is to say, not at all.

  • AsherFrost
    AsherFrost Member Posts: 2,340
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    Why did you make the same thread 4 hours after Mikaela?

  • Bennett_They1Them
    Bennett_They1Them Member Posts: 2,513
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    "I like the nerf, personally, but I think CoH (specifically CoH, not the other boons) should require the user to break a totem before every use; thus creating a limited number of uses and a built in cooldown."

    this was the bit I meant to share.

  • HeyItsQuiet
    HeyItsQuiet Member Posts: 359
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    I mean, some med kits are now faster than boon healing, so... Why is nobody screaming "nerf medkits"?

    They should've just allowed killers to destroy the totem.

  • GoshJosh
    GoshJosh Member Posts: 4,992
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    Shhhh.. there are people calling for medkit nerfs. The last real good item survivors have left.

  • Fukse
    Fukse Member Posts: 106
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    Circle should only affect altruistic heals, and being generous it should only provide self care with the base 32 seconds speed.

    WIth this change survivors will be more inclinded to group up - something a killer can use to slow the game down by naturally pressuring multiple survivors at a time.

    While in general nerfing Circle is a step in the right direction, all these numbers changing don't mean nothing when after a setup it's a more powerful version of an already arguably most powerful item in the game - medkit. What's even more - it's infinite medkit for survivors at the cost of 1 out of 16 perks survivors can bring into a game. Now imagine 2 or 3 circles at the same time.

    Any perk that gives a survivor means to mend for themselves in a bad design - given the opportunity, survivors will only group up at the unhooks.

    We've got a lot of survivor tracking survivors perks - kindred, bond, new surv perk forgot whatitis, empathy, blood pact, keys with different attachments like unique wedding ring and the rings to see survs in the 48 meter radius etc. They all go unused not only because of obvious discord callouts, but because with a medkit/circle survivors can just take care of themselves - why would you ever group up - or bring a perk that will help you group up - when you can heal yourself with a medkit you brought and deny the chance to snowball?

  • Thusly_Boned
    Thusly_Boned Member Posts: 2,819
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    I consider myself to be a decent-good solo player, and don't run CoH or DH (outside of BT I largely eschew meta perks in general), so I am sure not going to stop playing surv.

    CoH is an abomination that never should have been, and a recent addition at that, I don't see why some people are acting as if this is crippling some long standing pillar of surv play. And at the end of the day, it's still a perk that allows the whole team to heal themselves, so the utility is still clearly there.

    That said, my fave solution is still to just let the killer permanently break totems.

    Dedicated surv mains are going to say this is moving the needle to the other side, I say it's moving it to the middle. The ability of survs to heal quickly and repeatedly was already driving an uptick in the killer strats survs hate, and CoH just pushed that into overdrive.

  • IronKnight55
    IronKnight55 Member Posts: 2,906
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    Yep, it's going to be trash if it goes live. They could've done better. It's just lazy.

  • AsherFrost
    AsherFrost Member Posts: 2,340
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    Probably because you only get 1, maybe.2 heals with the right addons, lose it at the end of the match (or at least your addons) and can be made to drop it with Franklin's, which is a far easier counter than figuring out which survivor brought the boon and focusing them down.

  • AsherFrost
    AsherFrost Member Posts: 2,340
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    Stacks with medkits and other perks.

    Works for the whole team with only one person needing to carry it.

    Provides self care functionality without medkit or everyone needing the self care perk...

    But yeah, it's only a few seconds faster (base) than self care, so clearly that means it's completely worthless now and doesn't provide any benefit. Lol.

  • dallasmedicbag
    dallasmedicbag Member Posts: 571
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    "instantly rebless it". please play survivor for once, because i think you've got that backwards. can't believe people would still complain about this. this has become a killer perk now, much like self care.

  • dugman
    dugman Member Posts: 9,714
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    Hypothetically, if it's on par with the other healing perks, doesn't that mean it's still good? It's not like people didn't run healing perks before Circle of Healing came along. This doesn't sound worse than those.

  • AsherFrost
    AsherFrost Member Posts: 2,340
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    Not only that, but it's the only healing perk that the whole team gets the benefit of, without having to be the one specifically healing them all.

  • dugman
    dugman Member Posts: 9,714
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    Right, it still seems like a good perk to me. 🤷‍♂️

  • neb
    neb Member Posts: 790
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    It hasn't even been released yet and you're already acting like it's the end of the world. Did the 25% healing reduction kill the perk? No it didn't. Is another 25% reduction now suddenly going to kill the perk, making it as ######### as auto-didact? Really?

  • neb
    neb Member Posts: 790
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    MoM is literal garbage compared to post nerf COH. COH is still a good perk, the 25% reduction didn't do anything before, nor is another 25% reduction going to do anything now.

  • Johnny_XMan
    Johnny_XMan Member Posts: 6,424
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    We won? I didn't know this was a competition.

  • AsherFrost
    AsherFrost Member Posts: 2,340
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    I'm still using it. May just be tunneled less for using it, lol.

  • GenJockeyNance
    GenJockeyNance Member Posts: 687
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    It will be in a whole team of solos. For swfs it'll still thrive. Almost every perk can survive swf but this change will kill the solo teams as you can't afford to waste 30+ seconds healing when solo survivors already are allergic to gens. Just my opinion though.

  • CrowVortex
    CrowVortex Member Posts: 951
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    My Twins is licking her lips right now, hopefully this with the hemorrhage changes are enough to bring her back off the shelf for me.

  • AsherFrost
    AsherFrost Member Posts: 2,340
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    That's an attitude thing.

    Clue is right there "team of solos". People like to think since they queued solo, they aren't really in a team. I swear most people end up in swf simply to get teammates who actually act like they are on the same team. I queue solo all the time, as my friends long ago gave up on DbD, and I'll still bring CoH for my team.

  • BabyCameron10
    BabyCameron10 Member Posts: 949
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    It is going to be a massive turn off for majority of the survivors, especially solos. SWF will be the only ones still using it

  • GoshJosh
    GoshJosh Member Posts: 4,992
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    I don’t risk other healing perks being snuffed after spending 14-28 seconds (base) setting it up. Nor do I need to traverse to a 24m radius to utilize any other healing perk. All this assuming a totem is even available, as survivors still cleanse dull and hex totems. Not to mention the upcoming haemorrhage rework.

    One would probably get more value out of Autodidact or even Solidarity than new CoH as a solo queue survivor. Hence, Self-Care is the optimal choice for solos once more. CoH’s lifespan is over outside of coordinated SWF.

  • hiken
    hiken Member Posts: 1,188
    edited March 2022
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    but nurse and blight still at the top with their overpowered addons untouched in fact buffed... i guess ill be using medkits non stop now.

  • TotemSeeker91
    TotemSeeker91 Member Posts: 2,358
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    I mean, it's not 50% penalty to healing, so won't it be like 24 seconds? I can't remember the exact description of the perk, so I could be totally wrong

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,077
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    It's still going to be a strong perk, but at least it won't be a complete nightmare as an attrition based killer.

  • Bennett_They1Them
    Bennett_They1Them Member Posts: 2,513
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    I don't think it is.

    I think that was more like "We all win as a community because a problematic game design/balancing oversight is starting to be addressed properly."

  • Johnny_XMan
    Johnny_XMan Member Posts: 6,424
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    Not how the title of the thread was interpreted but sure.

  • IronKnight55
    IronKnight55 Member Posts: 2,906
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    Hopefully this version doesn't make it to live. Probably will though.

  • CrowVortex
    CrowVortex Member Posts: 951
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    Was warranted, brings it in line with other healing perks that are not team oriented. Encourages more people to use inner healing too now, which is still a good perk.

  • Khelendrose2020
    Khelendrose2020 Member Posts: 207
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    People calling this a dead perk now are either disingenuous or very short sighted. One perk that gives the benefits of multiple perks while freeing up SWF teammates to run other perks.

    1. Full team self care in a designated area of the map - very strong on its own.

    2. 50% healing bonus in a designated area of the map - very strong on its own.

    3. No need for a healing kit, tgus allowing you to either double up the healing speed with a kit or bring something else.

    4. Whole party can see the totem

    5. Can be relit as long as a totem exists.

    This perk is still very strong. Anyone saying otherwise is just not being honest.

  • gentacle
    gentacle Member Posts: 260
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    If anything it's going to need more nerfs and an outright change to boon totems ngl

  • MikaelaWantsYourBoon
    MikaelaWantsYourBoon Member Posts: 6,564
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    We won because it is good step for balancing game. This perk was problematic and it is better now.


    I will open same topic when they do same thing for Dead Hard, Nurse and NOED too. I care about balance and game healthy.

  • Sakurra
    Sakurra Member Posts: 1,046
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    I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks nurse is op. It's the single killer that I don't like at all. I prefer being camped by a bubba than playing against nurse.

  • drsoontm
    drsoontm Member Posts: 4,250
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    They could keep whatever heal speed they want. The problem is the infinite use.

    Boons need to be breakable, or limited in use in some way.

  • MikaelaWantsYourBoon
    MikaelaWantsYourBoon Member Posts: 6,564
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    Nurse is problem because devs can not make small maps and they can not make strong killer perks. Because if they do, Nurse will be broken. I had topic for this issue, she needs change as well.