Otzdarva's Attempts At A Sadako Winstreak Were Very...Illuminating.
So currently going over this series again because I'm really trying to get a handle on this killer and...wow. It can be genuinely painful to watch at times.
For those not familiar with Otzdarva, he's a DbD focused content creator known for doing win streaks on killers with either 4 perks and no addons or (rarely) 3 perks and one addon.
Some takeaways:
- He tried STBFL, Hex focused builds, Hex focused builds with Pentimento and finally settled on Ruin+PR+MYC+FOR.
- Her newspaper addon is so essential to her kit that for a portion of the streak, it was considered more valuable than a perk slot and he used it with 3 perks.
- He considers it to be the most difficult streak he's ever attempted, including pre-rework Trapper and Myers.
- He was able to achieve a 13 streak before calling it, but it took days of attempts. He managed 20 on Cenobite and 30 on Artist substantially faster.
- He described her as often feeling like she doesn't have a power.
- His immediate suggestions for fixing her would be condemn gain for all survivors when someone is hooked, and baking Old Newspaper in baseline.
On the positive side:
- Her pickup animation is odd enough that sometimes survivors miss flashlight/pallet saves and DS.
- She has a cool mori, I guess?
I understand what the devs were...trying to do with this killer (something that's not an anti-loop) but she came out half-baked and needs to go back in the oven for a while.
Where's Chef Ramsay when you need him?
Comments
-
Believe it or not, there are content creators and people who think she's A tier.
I'd go as far as saying she's the second worst killer in the game unless you're on an indoor map
30 -
She has an interesting power, that gets rendered useless for the "rest of the match" if she uses it to much. She would become a true hit and run killer, IF the TVs wouldn´t take so long to turn on again, after she ported there. But as it is now, she´s just a m1 killer with no loop abilty.
Also her stealth is kinda useless against most survivors. Devs need to improve both things before anything else.
A pure addon number crunch won´t fix her.
34 -
I saw the first game or so of his video on the subject and to be honest I don't particularly get it. The first game was a 4k despite an extremely stacked lobby and we're supposed to worry about her power level because it was a stressful match for him? I don't really think we should be calling a killer underpowered because they can't go on a massive 3-4k streak, it'd be like saying survivors need a big buff because people aren't able to get 100+ escape streaks anymore.
6 -
In perfect scenarios, she's probably A or B tier. But to do this, you're talking the perfect map with 1 iri and 1 purple addon.
And this is true of most killers.
Watch more of the streak.
A lot of the time, he got rocked for the entire game and only won because the survivors were incredibly altruistic. Where this didn't happen, he generally got flattened.
In his own words, even when he won as her he didn't feel like he'd actually won - more like survivors had lost.
Also...what? There's a difference between 100 escapes in a row and 13. I forget what his solo escape streak was, but I think it was 20ish, and he got it in 2 days. Again - solo. As a killer main that only started seriously playing survivor a few months ago.
Every killer can 4k if they get lucky, get sent to the perfect map and get mismatched by MMR. So...just don't adjust the balance again, ever?
She needs a substantial rework, but I don't think it'll ever happen.
The best we can hope for is some addons being baked in and some numbers tweaks.
12 -
Yep, exactly. You can't solely rate a killer in there best possible situation without considering everything else.
4 -
The thing about Otzdarva despite how good he is, he isn't the best or has fully mastered the game. (and TBH DBD doesn't feel like game that's worth mastering)
9 -
So just because one streamer doesnt get a decent enough winstreak Sadako is a bad killer? Iam always amazed on how naive some people are.
8 -
Shrug. I never claimed he was. I said that the streak overall was very illuminating, especially when you contrast it to the other recent streaks he did.
When one of the most prolific, semi-professional players in the world who specializes at killer streaks describes that killer as being the most difficult he's ever attempted, and rating one of her brown addons as more important to her kit than a perk slot - you don't think that this might be an indication that she needs some adjustments?
If not, what sort of metric would you prefer? Gross kill rates?
9 -
I don't find it very illuminating and I love otz. We already knew that she could use some buffs. I don't think many people dispute that. A total rework? No. Just because you don't personally like a killer's power or that it's not as strong as it could be doesn't mean they need an entire rework.
0 -
Average kills per match. This is off a website that data mines DBD.
2 -
Yeah this also works for win streaks too.
Just because one guy can get 100 4k win streaks doesn't mean the game is biased toward killer, it just means otz is good enough to do that of his own accord.
Yet people take these to mean that things are OP.
People read way to much into this stuff.
4 -
Iv actually had huge success with her, even during these mmr tests where iv been getting destroyed as other killers iv still been able to bring it back.
Loving my build on her but god damn these tests have been the most painful killer experience in years
0 -
If I'm being honest, just making it so tvs have no cooldown when used by Sadako would make her miles better, and also greatly reduce the time tvs are turned off when interacted with by survivors. Condemn definitely needs work, but her tvs feel like such a weird ability. "So she doesn't have any chase whatsoever but the tradeoff is she has great map pressure...that has loud directional audio, long cooldowns, and can be stopped by survivors with very little effort."
I don't get why it was done, were they scared she'd be too strong? Even if the TV's couldn't be turned off and had 0 cooldown, she would still barely have the same map presence as like blight and wraith and that still doesn't mean her chase would be improved.
0 -
Which site is this, if you don't mind linking it. Very curious on their methodology.
4 -
Hes just a streamer, nothing more to make out of it. Otz is a nice guy, unless he abuses the ######### out of the game to amuse his viewers. But as you said hes just someone whos playing killer variety. Just because a killer needs adjustment it doesnt mean the killer is bad. Like there are killer mains playing their character for years like trapper and having decent winstreaks. And they dont think that their character is bad just because its weaker than other. People should dtop complaining that killers are bad as theyre not.
0 -
...
Okay, if you don't consider pre-rework Trapper to be a bad killer, I think we're working of a very different definition of bad here.
'Bad' to me, means that she's extremely weak proportional to the power of other killers. Yes, 'bad' means 'weaker than most other options'.
Yes, if a killer requires substantial adjustments - barring bugs, QOL etc. - then they are bad.
4 -
According to your assessment, nearly every other Killer is a god and needs no changes simply because it was easier for a single streamer to get win streaks on them?
Calling this "illuminating" makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
3 -
What even is the point in trying to say she isn't bad when she has nothing on the table.
0 -
And yet he was able to do 50 wins with other M1 killers.
🤔
Wonder what changed?
1 -
Long winstreaks should be rare. If you can win 50 games in a row, we have balance problems. Normally when I watch Otz he is always winning.
Now for Sadako her power is teleporting and stealth. Not every killer needs to be anti-loop anti-counterplay type of killer.
I'm sure her kill stats are over 65% so she is more than adequate.
2 -
Hi Sluzzy.
Assuming you aren't being...Sluzzy here:
- Otz is probably MMR capped or as near as dammit, meaning that he's mostly facing survivors of a lower skill than him (and occasionally tourney level comps and other semi pros). Yes, he's going to win a lot. The interesting question is - how much, proportionally, on different killers?
- Pre MMR he was able to do 50. Now he capped out at 30, on a high tier killer (Artist) if I recall - and again, it's Otz. If the MMR system insisted on matching him against only survivors at his experience level, he'd be waiting for hours.
- Looking at the site (assuming it's accurate) she's at 51%, making her pretty damn weak. Where are you getting 65% from?
4 -
Here is a fact you missed:
MMR was released. Otz will practically have a harder time getting high kill streaks with a lot of killers, he didnt even really attempt one after MMR was introduced. So yeah, ofcourse he's not gonna get 50 wins in a row when the MMR system alone will give him harder and harder survivors to deal with.
1 -
At 51% she is pretty much exactly what the devs aim for.
2 -
On top of MMR being released, OP mentions that Otz talks about Trapper being easier. His Trapper video was uploaded December 2020
Now, I'm no mathematician, but since then we've also had this tiny little thing called Circle of Healing
And this may or may not have completely and utterly ruined the M1 killer game plan.
So many comparing the feeling of a 2020 streak pre-MMR and pre-COH and a 2022 streak post-MMR and post-COH isn't the best idea.
10 -
Sure. But he actually accounted for this - he was talking about toolkit and the importance of 1v1 ability right now. Applying some map control doesn't really matter if you have to eat every pallet on the map to get a down.
1 -
Boons, MMR.
9 -
My experience playing against Sadako has been Sadako's who don't teleport with their tvs a lot simply lose, because she offers very little as a purely M1 killer. Generally the most challenging ones to beat are ones using the Iri Videotape since it refreshes up to 4 tvs with a rather easy to achieve condition.
To me it suggests that her Iri Videotape needs to be weaken a bit and her base kit CD with TVs needs to be buffed.
1 -
I'm not sure why he would think the days of MMR he is going to go into games with 3 perks and a brown addon on a weak killer and win a bunch. Sounds kind of entitled honestly.
The nice thing is Ghostface will be coming back in a huge way soon, reading his addon changes, so at least we will have him for the go-to stealth killer now. Addon's are such a huge part of this game and hers are garbage.
The only thing Onryo really has that's good for a chase is old newspaper + mothers mirror. Reikos watch is intimidating to look at but they can still hear you manifesting so it doesn't help much. You will never hit anyone out of a TV so bloody fingernails suck. Even the best flicker mindgames can be beaten by just camping a pallet. Lol.
1 -
Who do you think is the worst, please don't say Myers lol
1 -
If he MMR capped, then he should be getting the best survivors playing. He is still winning most of his games.
2 -
I can't speak to how good or bad Otz is with Sadako, but if you actually want to watch someone who is really good with her I recommend
RedsGamingGears . He's been putting on a clinic with her all this month. I don't know what his kill rate is exactly but it seems quite high and he is definitely taking better advantage of her abilities than most of the other streamers I've seen. He even gets Condemned kills against otherwise good survivors not infrequently simply by virtue of how much pressure he can exert with her. (He tends to use a lot of slugging and constant map wide pressure with her. So the first part of the match is usually a lot of downs and breaking of pallets but few hooks, followed by eventually hooking one specific survivor three times in a row to eliminate them and then cleaning up the rest since all the pallets are gone by that point.)
1 -
Yes. Because the matchmaking system won't make you wait in a 45 minute queue, so after a while you start getting matched lower and lower.
2 -
Hah! I've watched him play with her - honestly, it mostly like he's playing her as a pure M1 killer and just going for a lot of slugging and tunneling. He'd probably be even more effective on...almost any killer. He's certainly skilled though.
3 -
Wouldn't that mean it is too difficult to rank up as survivor?
1 -
>either 4 perks and no addons or (rarely) 3 perks and one addon.
What is this self-handicap meant to prove exactly? Killers are designed AND balanced with add-ons in mind, that's a fact.
0 -
You don't need an absolute master at a multiplayer to decide how good a character is. If Otzdarva nor other players cant make her work then that's pretty telling.
There can be character breakthroughs though with time. But idk about Sadako.
5 -
Nope! :)
It means that there are vanishingly few people at that level of experience. What'll generally happen is that, even if there are 2 survivors at that MMR, the other two will be have to be pulled from lower MMRs, creating a weak link in the team.
Other games have dealt with this issue by having 'leagues', and you will never be matched with anyone more than 1 league above you or below you, regardless of MMR.
Are they?
Then why do SS tier Nurse and Blight have some of the most powerful addons in the game, while Hillbilly and Freddy have some of the worst?
3 -
...No, what?
That's the exact opposite of what I'm saying.
I'm saying that, even compared to some of the weakest killers in the game and accounting for CoH and MMR, how difficult he seems to be finding this streak is what's illuminating. Balance isn't something that happens in a vacuum - and you cannot say that there's not a gigantic delta between Onryo and even 'good' killers like Plague, Hag, PH and Artist.
6 -
This is ridiculous, does everyone really want a basekit c-tier killer to dominate against 4 brand newnparts? Cause there is a reason iri add ons exist and its not just for show. Its like saying its so hard to escape myers cause he has infinite tier 3 and instant mori, yeah that's the point. Why shouldn't iridiscent add ons make it easier for the opponent to win.
Nurse is broken OP from the start not to mention an iri add on that gives her 3 blinks, blight is broken due to two of his addons, take it away from him and he's balanced A tier.
0 -
DbD matchmaking doesn't works like that.
2 -
No.
What people want is for the ridiculously large delta between 'c' and 'a' tier killers to be closed somewhat.
2 -
But then nurse and blight is only tied to iri addon survivors in term of strength, according to you killers should be able to defeat four iri survivors with iri addons, and it means they are the balance standard.
every killers has to be competitive enough to defeat best survivors with best loadout, as long as killer bring same tier items.
1 -
Yes and No it all boils down to skill with equally skilled killer and survivor it all boils down to perks and add ons.
and Yes even Survivor should still have a fighting chance against Nurse with 3 blinks but its not humanely possible cause Nurse with 3 blinks is broken as hell.
3 -
yeah what website is this, im just curious to see some of the stats
1 -
Then bring an addon, its like saying a perkless killer should win against SWF with 4 dead hards.
0 -
No? every competitive scenes and statistics tolds you that 3 blink nurses are dealt just fine.
4 -
When you shift the goalposts, you concede the argument.
But okay:
- Killers should not be balanced around the expectation of bringing an addon.
- What addons should a Freddy bring to even things up? Or even Sadako for that matter?
- You can't run iris or URs every game and having mandatory browns...I thought we got past this years ago?
Survivors can do just fine without items, because they draw the entirety of their power from player skill, map and perks. Killers also have a powerset, which is where the balance issues lie.
Even contrasting 'good' killers like Artist, Plague and Hag with the 'c' and 'd' tier killers...you cannot honestly be saying that - even using their best addons - a Pig or a Freddy can compete with an Artist or a Plague at even intermediate MMRs.
5 -
Neither does suvivors i can't bring purple flashlight with me everygame. Bring their strongest add-ons if you want to win don't tell me you expect yourself to win without sacrificing the same amount as they did. 4 people who paid extra vs 1 person who just wants to be entitled to a win.
0 -
So you are saying green killers should be able to be tie with green survivors, which really isn't in sadako's case.
2 -
We aren't talking about survivors with addons versus killers without addons. I...don't understand why you've shifted the goalposts to this.
But okay - let's take addons out of the equation.
An Artist queues up against an SWF. Nobody is using addons. Everyone is using meta perks. Eyrie. Skill levels are about equivalent - high intermediate.
Now, a Trapper queues up against the SWF. Similar quality of builds. Same map.
Which killer has the easier time, again assuming equal skill levels?
Why?
3
