Grabbing Off the Hook Promotes Camping

Camping drops mmr though. There's even a point deduction for post game stats.

It always has. Very illogical mechanic. But there are plenty in DbD.

what if it's an experienced camper that expects the fake and M1s you when you hold them for too long for it to be faked?

That's called a "mind game" and works both ways.

That's not what gaslighting means. God people throw around this word a lot, and this is just a way to make some 'side' in these crappy debates sound more irrational and even abusive than they really are.

Let's face it, when survivors unhook in front of the killer, it's because the killer isn't going to leave the area anyway. What's the other option? Just hold M1 again because killers refuse to play the game beyond one chase and patrolling a hook? After the fourth game in a row it becomes extremely boring. You can easily secure a trade even without an insta-down.

Camping is a valid action/ strategy and vs the majority of the killer roster, it’s easy to counter. Why should survivor’s be entitled to free unhooks?

Also with roll back, grabbing off the hook doesn’t work half the time anyway.

The two health state grab (grabbing healthy survivors) at hooks should go. It does promote camping. Not having this as an option for killer would encourage killers to take chases.

Like even Camping Cannibals go for the grab, not the chainsaw.

Two health state grabs are encouragement for losing killers. Losing killers should still have to earn their kills.

Survivors aren't supposed to have free saves against killers when they already have ~5 meta perks to help them in that situation they don't need more

In a world where killers can only grab injured survivors, killers can still camp (or proxy or be super strategy guy as Suzu says) the hook and apply pressure there. Just not the automatic down with a grab.

I think killers are crutching on this mechanic too much rather than taking (and learning to win) chases.

and removing it would encourage hook farming, which is equally bad.

cause why would we need a penalty for somoene who decides to unhook right in the Killers face? its not like they were actively messing with the Killers primary objective or anything, which said Killer already struggles to complete... oh wait.

why do people always think that just because they want to save now that this somehow means they were entitled to get the rescue?

if the Killer is very close to the hook, you shouldnt even think about going for the rescue in the first place, let alone demand getting it! You either wait until the Killer is gone and gives you an opening, or you do generators and punish them for dropping all their map pressure in favor of killing off one individual.

Hook grabs are there to give going for an unhook in the killer's presence an actual risk to it, it can backfire and net you nothing. Survivors should learn how to unhook safely, give the killer a chance to leave.

In theory, this is perfectly logical, that's how it should be.

There's two issues that I'm not 100% sure of the solutions to

Killers who refuse to leave the hook until they secure stage two, without BT or DS - you either trade, farm or worst case scenario get grabbed and slugged. The counterplay to camping has always been "do gens" sure, but you're also letting a teammate essentially die meaning it's probably going to end up a 3 v 1 very quickly and you don't want that. As a survivor you want to spread out hook states as much as possible

The other issue is everyone's favourite "hook grab" minigame where the survivor knows they'll get grabbed, so they have to keep faking it and the killer knows if they go for a grab, it'll likely get cancelled and become a normal M1 instead causing a stalemate situation at hooks. I'm personally not a fan of this but like I mentioned earlier I'm not sure how to fix it.

The only 'solution' that comes to mind is something I think Otz suggested at one point, making only injured survivors grabbable while unhooking, like how medium vaults work. Would be a straight nerf to killer though and I'm not completely for it but it's an idea.

It's not just you, I have specifically let go many times because I'm pretty good at the timing and still sometimes get lag grabbed. You see your character let go and then a second later you're getting grabbed.

Kind of in bad faith to present these reasonable contexts yet forego the actual bore that is killers camping as a default because 'muh mmr 2 hard' or just to grief. Both extremely boring and the only shred of fun to be had is to try and save the hooked from the killer.

Why would the killer leave the hook in these situations? They shouldn't. But are these realistically the main reasons they hang around the hook? Of course not. Most of the time it's some dumb facecamping Bubba or a guy that tunnelled for two minutes.

And yes, survivors whining when your specific examples are brought up is indeed entitled mentality.

But then its a camping issue. The grab Mechanik is totally fine and all of you wouldnt see it nearly as much if camping weren't a problem because then it would be your fault

It’s not in bad faith, the point is to demonstrate that camping is legitimate therefore survivors are not entitled to free unhooks.