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Nerfing Pop and Scourge hooks
Comments
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One gen with most progress and 25% on another one. Keep using those perks you're gonna be good ONE day.
OMG so hard to get a hook.
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Good survivors can do 3 gens before the killer gets one hook.
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Adrelanine rewards 5 gens done
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The answer is never because killer perks don’t get nerfed. I agree they should be though, it’s OP when used together.
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10 seconds to realistically pick up and hook, 20+ seconds to down (being very generous here and assuming already injured). That's 30 seconds. 30x 3=90 seconds since that's time given to the others. 90-32(that 40% gen regression)=58 seconds lost on every single down.
That's assuming they're all injured already which obviously wouldn't be the case, not counting the time/ pressure lost to go and kick the gen(also assuming you can even make it in time), assuming very fast downs which can literally be countered by just pre throwing pallets, lastly assuming you can even get to a scourge hook every single time(which won't be the case).
Yeah I don't see the issue looking at the numbers. Not even close to an issue.
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Killer mains expecting everything hand down to them, don't even try.
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Especially when it loves spawning 3 scourge hooks in the corner of the map.
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no.
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Compared to pre-nerf Undying Ruin? I would take Pain Resonance + Dead Man's Switch/Pop over having to find and blow up practically all totem spawns every single game, easily.
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No they are not.
You can't even use them on the SAME GEN unless a Survivor taps the gen that explodes, since Pain Reso causes regression, and you can't kick regressing gens to Pop them.
It's amazing how it stops sounding 'OP' when you get into the specifics of how they interact, huh?
Says the Survivor main who will lie by omission to demand nerfs to 2 perks that don't even work together. 🤷♂️
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You realize survivors will often tap the gen or continue working right after the PR -right? That’s how they work together.
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
Good survivors won’t tap the gen. The regression from PR is slow, it’s not worth having the gen being poped.
Post edited by EQWashu on4 -
They do, and they use them. Not obviously on the same gen that regressing, SMH.
I know how the perks working and probably I have double or triple your hours. So please.
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killer perks don't get nerfed
They do though.
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The best part about threads like these are how it's easy to spot the people whose biased opinions reveal that they only play one side of the game, and that they have no idea what actual "balance" is.
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Imagine trying to insist a perk combo is OP because of SURVIVOR-made mistakes.
If Survivors tap a gen that just exploded; that is the SURVIVOR'S FAULT. That's not proof Pain Reso & Pop need to be nerfed. Rofl.
Do you think I care about your hours?
The perks aren't OP just because Survivors need something to complain about. And hours stop mattering after probably 10 or 15. By then; anyone knows enough about the game mechanics to know what's really OP if they're using their head and not their emotions.
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That happens in like 1 out of 20 matches. With a very bad killer in the match.
The only way for survivors to win is to get gens done quickly because usually the killer will snowball after he gets a hook.
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If survivors are playing well, Pain res + Pop on one generator isn't going to stop the other two teammates who should be working on gens from making progress
Even with DMS, the killer still has to find a way to FORCE survivors to let go.
Don't stack up on gens and spread the gens out (Aka don't make it easy to 3 gen). The easiest counter to these two perks.
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See that would require survivors to actually think about and consider the killers plan and think about the big picture gameplay, not "hehe hold M1, hehe hold W"
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Survivors cry rivers about facecamping and then when Killers try a meta that requires hooking they cry about THAT.
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Lolwut?
Both of these are extremely limited and carry a lot of risk for the killer. Pop requires you to physically go over and kick a gen before it expires, after hooking someone. PR is RNG on hook spawns, sometimes an additional spot for Agi and again, requires a hook. They both have viable counterplay.
The only perks you've had 'nerfed' recently was a design oversight that allowed people to take games hostage and a blatantly broken nightmare perk that allowed duos to literally heal mid chase. Neither had viable counterplay.
If killers are running hard regression perks as meta, it's because that's what's required to win right now.
It's not just 'genrushing' (ie. a SWF stacking multiple toolboxes and PTS to just slam gens out faster than they can be killed), it's more an issue of survivors now being savvy enough to make their first chase last a very long time, during which time the others melt gens.
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so, a perk where hooking just 1 survivor initiates 2 powerful regression perks isn’t OP? How is that even close to being true? You don’t even need to use both on 1 gen, you can simply go pop a different gen.
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To get that regression you have to win 2 chases, carry the survivor to one of 4 special hooks placed at random across the map, and make it to the 2nd gen before the timer for pop is up. At that point, I'd consider the regression earned, especially considering the survivor can tap the gen that was hit with PR while the killer is racing to get the other one before the pop timer stops.
Yes, it is an undoubtedly powerful combination, however it takes a large amount of both luck and skill to even pull off. Also, it directly encourages the killer to leave the hook, which judging by these forums, solves the #1 issue complained about by survivor players.
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Not at all. It's not just 'hook a survivor'. It's a 'hook a survivor on these specific hooks which may be nowhere near you'. It's got a huge RNG component to it.
PR also has extremely reliable counterplay.
- You can sabo.
- You can bodyblock.
- You can avoid going down near a scourged hook.
- You can release gens before someone gets hooked (I can do it and I'm a terrible survivor)
- You can play around DMS
In order to make PR work, you essentially have to dedicate a spot to Agi. And it's numerically inferior to Pop. PR is basically a big boy Surge. It's for killers who need to minimize downtime.
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of course I know they need the specific hook, I’m not an idiot, and In the games I’ve played the killers seem to have no trouble getting there most of the time. Your suggested counters are useless, especially since we can’t tell which hooks are scourge anyways. You have convinced me of nothing.
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Shrug. Fortunately, reality exists independent of your opinions.
You don't know the hooks right off the bat, but you can take note of which are white when you/someone else is hooked and until you know, just let go of gens before someone gets hooked.
This is one of those situations where I say go play a few dozen games as killer with PR. See how often simple RNG, absent any effort from the survivors, makes it impossible to use those hooks - especially on maps like Swamp, RPD and Eyrie.
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And what happens if other gens are barely started? Wasted Pop, wasted time that could have been spent chasing or hooking.
What happens if your Scourge Hooks spawn at the outer corners of the map? No Pain Reso the entire match.
You're acting like the perks are uncounterable. Other Survivors are acting like they stack on the same gen. Both are wrong, and the perks are fine. Survivors need to stop thinking anything even mildly effective on the Killer side needs a nerf.
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they only hurt 1 gen and not that much. why would you nerf these perks. these perks hurt gen rushers by a lil.
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Who decided they are "supposed" to be so? You?
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Who's deciding they are OP? You? Other Survivors?
Question works both ways.
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The devs, by making them so situational and hard to get. If it was every hook, or even half of them that would be one thing. But it's literally 4 scourged hooks per map, no matter what, with no options to control where they go. As previous perks on both sides have shown, the more situational and RNG based a perk is, the more powerful the effects will be to justify the extra effort. This has been the same design philosophy for the entire life of the game to date.
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Not really, it seems like you're just cherry picking examples to suit your situational idea. But if you look at the numbers, most perks are just situational, yet only a few of them are viable let alone strong
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Ok, can you provide an example of a perk that has multiple conditions to activate and isn't at all powerful? Also, as I didn't actually provide a single example myself, I'm not sure how I can be accused of "cherry picking" them. If I were to provide an example it would be IS (Or whatever they call it now). Basically self care, but faster and not seen by nurse's calling. Why? Because you have to fulfill a condition to activate it first (break a totem).
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Furtive chase
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Is probably a bit low powered for the conditions, but reducing TR for the duration of the match is definitely a powerful effect.
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It's IN CHASE though lmao. If it just flat reduced your TR for the rest of the match it would actually be a pretty good perk.
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Like I said, it could probably be improved. I'd also say it's easier to hook a certain survivor than it is to put a survivor on a certain hook, especially with no real control over where they are downed. You've definitely shown why nobody ever picks that perk unless they have to for the adept, lol.
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Jolt. Here's your example.
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Killers cry rivers about gen rushing and when survs use boon totems the they cry about them
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Absolutely. They just don't like to admit it.
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This is what I've been saying. To shake up the killer meta, the devs nerf their best perks in the hopes that they use lesser used perks. To shake up the survivor meta, the devs buff their worst perks in the hopes that they use the lesser used perks. It's double standards towards balancing. The killer meta gets nerfed and the survivor meta stays the same or gets better.
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So putting one survivor (any one survivor, at that) into the dying state is "multiple conditions" to you? Or is it that you don't think jolt is powerful?
To reiterate, a perk that has multiple conditions to activate (as in, more than one) that isn't powerful (as in, doesn't do much)
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what about making the map tiles more balanced first🤔
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They ONLY get 40% ON ONE GEN, if Survivors tap that gen.
If they don't Pain Reso makes it regress, which means it cannot be kicked with Pop.
Why should the perks be nerfed for what amounts to a 100% Survivor-controlled misplay?
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we hear your complaint, and so we decided to nerf boil over once more!
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Ok, I'll just be over here with my hangman's trick and lightborn, it's fine, you don't need to care that killers like me exist
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0/10
troll post,
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Killers do not cry about boon totems. It is the Circle of Healing that can be used an unlimited number of times and replaced if destroyed.
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They're supposed to be strong by design, same with Boons and Hex perks. The downside is the RNG that comes with it. Boons are strong perks, but their downside is that they can be snuffed. Hex totem perks are very strong, but they're downside is that they can get cleansed. So... Yeah. 🤷♀️
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IMO both perks are fine as Survivors have BNP and PT to counter this issue. I wish overall that speed of gens and base regression was addressed but as the devs have proven several times that they don't see it as an issue then Killers should have gen regression and gen blocking perks as it gives them more time to kill Survivors which is supposed to be their overall objective.
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