3 gens under 90 seconds
Comments
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That was a misguided statement then. Slowdown have the most impact on killer side. It's unfeasible to balance gen time without factoring in slowdown perks.
Kills=skills as per the devs. Regardless if we agree or not.
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No, I don't want breakable walls. They were originally advertised as a way for killers to bust up bad loops, but before they came out they actually fixed most of the bad loops in a way that killers didnt need to sacrifice so much time to make them actually playable. Door breaking is slow as hell with the default animation, and made killers' time that much more valuable as if it wasn't already that much more important than the survivors.
People complain about gen speeds a lot, and the devs refuse to touch them since it would be more boring for holding m1 and reading twitch chat enthusiasts. The other side of the coin would be addressing killer time waste in general, which should be very minimal for the 1 in a 1v4. Its a big part of why the 2 seconds to snuff a boon is often worse than the time it takes to light them, since you have to add in the other factors like travel time, lost pressure/abandoned chase, etc. Make it so door breaking can be done with a normal attack/blade wipe like how some killers can break them with their powers and it would be an actual compromise, We literally went from an actual fix to a fancy bandaid fix.
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3 gens done in roughly 90 seconds is pretty much the norm against decent survivors - doesn't matter if swf or solos, although solos have a higher chance to give the killer a 3gen, but with more experience they learn to prevent this
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How long do my chases last? It depends on what perks they are running and what perks I am running or what killer I am playing.
Also I never claimed anything about when the actual game “starts” that is something you brought up. I simply said that in many of my games everyone is dead at 1 gen left. Because I think you are focusing too much on the number of gens being done rather than the pressure you are creating.
If you think Corrupt is a bad perk then I would say you are not very experienced with it because that perk alone gives you a ton of information on locating survivors specifically on gens. The difference between Corrupt and a perk like say ruin is that unlike Ruin it doesn’t do the job for you… YOU have to do the work. If you are chasing in the area where you clearly see all the gens are blocked, that is on you for not paying attention.
I also wouldn’t use a streamer as an example to show a gen speed problem. They are often distracted and not focused on the match.
At this point you can’t slow gens down at default because you would have to exponentially nerf every slow down perk there is. The game isn’t about giving you all the time that you need to down someone it is about you outpacing survivors. If gen speeds were any slower you would have way more killer’s camping. That wouldn’t be good for the game.
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Killers don't want strong loops, not happy. Killers are given a way to deal with strong loops, still unhappy. Literally will not be satisfied until survivors lose the ability to run. I remember when killers were complaining that double pallet vacuums were the only thing holding them back and if they just fixed that they would be happy. 20 patches later and more buffs to killer then people can count they are still complaining. There will never be day when killers are happy.
Gen speeds cannot be touched because killers camp and tunnel. FACT. So long as killers use this playstyle the gen speeds need to be possible to finish before the survivor on the hook dies. Unfortunately so many killers justify this awful mindset making the devs unable to do anything.
As for boons the only boon that is a problem is COH. Its not even broken at high skilled DBD. Against an extremely skilled Nurse, Blight, Its fairly balanced. The killer's broken downing potential is counted by the survivors insane healing speed. The issue is when you apply it to any killer not playing with a competitive mindset, then yes it is fairly overpowered but again this goes both ways. If you traveling across the map to disable boon expediential, then you are not playing killer properly.
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You could literally say the same about nurse. It’s rare to have a good nurse yet everyone wants her nerfed. It’s not the crybaby killers it’s the entitled survivors
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I honestly think the Early Game Collapse became Corrupt Intervention so they could sell us the ‘fix’
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I once posted killer mmrs should be based on amount of hooks they get before all 5 gens are completed. At endgame its basically garbage time where the survivors usually feed the killer hooks via trades and stuff.
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Was this just normal gen repair or did they have fancy toolboxes and Prove Thyself?
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Let's be real, increased gen times would 100% lead to more camping. Gen speeds have never been the issue. Map size is.
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If you can afford Nemesis get the perk to show you where people normally spawn or look up some guides on youtube.=bask in your glory when ppl get angry and disconnect cause you know where they spawned easy 4k.
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90 seconds?
A couple of Prove Thyselves, a Fast Track and 3 toolboxes with BNP and Wire Spools will have 3 generators knocked out in 50 seconds or so.
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I think that nothing is quite as funny as survivors who claim that "the game doesnt start until 2-3 gens are left". We should just remove a hook state because "the game doesnt really start until you are on death hook" from the killer PoV.
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Doing gens in parallel has always been the easiest way to win.
When you get survivors who do not suck at math, that's what they do and the game is over in about 5 minutes.
Yay, fun.
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Ive been saying this for a while, with the killer meta shifting you're forcing the meta of survivors to switch to genrushing builds, nobody wants to get a scourge pop on the gen and then be stuck off of it for the duration of dead man's switch only for the killer to end up kicking it again once it's unblocked, good survivors were already playing like this anyway but now more and more people are starting to figure it out that survivor isn't OP the Gen speed is OP and even bad players will be able to take advantage of this.
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Hook states are starting to look like a dated mechanic at this point
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Your job isn't to protect gens.
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When 3 gens are done at the 1st hook... that's when the REAL game begins.
That sounds so silly lol
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Look, more gen speeds are too quick thread after the "secondary" objectives, Circle of Healing nerf was announced. It's almost like survivors are switching from the healing meta to the gen speed meta. Gen speeds will only get quicker once the CoH nerf goes through and more survivors stop using boons and go back to gen speed builds.
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JuSt ApPlY PrEsSuRe, they say.
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Gen speeds were like this before CoH was even a perk. All CoH changed was allowing survivors to heal faster and more often before getting back on a gen.
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Exactly. Gen speeds were faster before CoH and CoH slowed down gen speeds by giving survivors a "secondary" objective, which was healing. The developers gave Killers exactly what they wanted, slower gen speeds, by adding a "secondary" objective and killers complained that survivors where using the "secondary" objective and got it nerfed. Now the gen speed issues have come back.
You can't give survivors a useless "secondary" objective and expect them to use it.
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No. Gen speeds are worse with CoH because survivors heal faster. It's less time healing overall. I'd rather survivors have longer heal times or make the poor decision to stay injured.
Healing is not a secondary objective.
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You have noticed that gen-speed threads just suddenly started popping up after the CoH nerf was announced. I counted 2 today. I don't remember seeing them before the CoH nerf announcement. I don't think that's a coincidence.
Survivors were using Resilience, Spine Chill, Dead Hard and Adrenaline to be able to rush through gens before boon totems. CoH replaced Resilience, and created a healing meta that allowed Killers some breathing room. In the games I've been watching, I've noticed a big increase in survivors working on gens while injured, which means they're probably running Resilience. Just saying.
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I dunno what games you've played previously but...I'm gonna come out and say, this isn't normal. You can call it crying or whatever you want but in normal games things that are as broken as what the op is talking about among the myriad of other things we have to deal with in this game. Isn't normal. It shouldn't feel normal. And there should be no reason to get at other players because the devs leave mechanics in that can cause people to think the game is one sided. The fact that its gotten to the point where someone would make the kind of post you're responding too says ENOUGH!
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Not every survivor lol. I main survivor and that is crazy. 3 gens in 90 seconds?? that's impressive. and frustrating.
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I only have 6.8k hours into the game. That is the length of time at which I am stating my opinion on my own games at. So it IS normal for me.
I call it crying because at some point that is what it becomes. At some point you can't just rely on having a bad match and calling the game "unbalanced" especially when you don't even take your own skill into account.
If you have been playing long enough, you understand how many perks they have come out with, to adjust gen speed. Some of which combo too well and can be quite oppressive. The problem is that some players are still asking for a nerf at base speed. That is never going to happen when you have perks that are way too good, that would make such nerf unnecessary.
What mechanics are one-sided according to you? OP is only complaining about gen speed.
3 gens being done SHOULD be possible if the killer is bad enough to allow it. Unless you think that the game should just hit a pause button to buy the killer more time because they aren't managing their time properly.
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I been playing just as long as you have. At a certain point, it becomes Stockholm syndrome. From your perspective, you're basically saying the game is perfectly fine. When realistically we ALL know that has never been the case. Infinites weren't fine, release MoM wasn't fine, Pallet vaacs weren't fine, deadzones weren't fine, Nurse having fully broken stutter teleports was not fine, titanic map sizes weren't fine, healing wasn't fine, toolboxes weren't fine, item charges weren't fine, sabotage wasn't fine, adding in flashlight wave isn't fine.....I could keep going. ^ People "Cried" about every single one of those things I just mentioned, and from your point of view you're basically saying that all of that was just...crying. Because infinite loops were just "crying" when you could literally run them...INFINITELY! So by your standards the devs shouldn't even bother fixing their game and just leave it in whatever trash state its in because anything anybody finds thats out of wack is just "crying".
Miss me with that bro....
Other games put the sparks out before theres a fire. Why you've gotten used to being engulfed is wild to me. You keep trying to cope with these bad decisions as if the devs aren't lop sided in their approach. They add in some perk, or some function and decide not to base it on optimal human efficiency, while at the same time releasing other content that is based on optimal efficiency. <---If you can't see how that will eventually create a crumbling card pyramid I dunno what to tell you other than play other pvp based games from other studios and witness people who are passionate about perfecting their game. To them it isn't just "crying" If release Xin Xao for instance stayed the way he was and Riot never adjusted anything thats their pensions down the toilet. Its not a game to people like that. And it shouldn't be treated as something you can blow off here either. Peoples livelihoods are at stake and you're calling the customers responsible for holding up those same livelihoods complaints just "crying". Yeah ok see how long a business would last with that attitude. I'm gonna say one canary in the coal mine thing that I always say, just 3 words, nothing else need be said after that.
Evolve Stage 2.
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I never once said the game was perfectly fine. I only said that players need to understand what they are talking about before it becomes "crying" at anything they don't like, which is partly the reason why these forums aren't taken serious in the first place. Just ask around.
You are now resorting to bringing up unsaid things and things that aren't even a part of the topic... like the stuff you listed, because that is how unoriginal and lacking substance these type of posts are. Instead you go ahead and defend it by calling it passionate about "perfecting" a game when in fact it is achieving the opposite of that. I wouldn't put it past the devs if they actually ignored posts like this one.
Are you seriously bringing people's livelihoods into it? Come on now get a grip. I have spent hours and money into this game and I don't think I am any more qualified than that person who didn't spend as many hours or money, HOWEVER I at least I have the common sense to understand and distinguish between what is blatantly a clear "rant" and what someone has offered as clear evidence of something that is actually unbalanced.
I am also not interested in how other games operate. They do not/will not have any impact on the decisions that BHVR is making regarding base gen speed. I am not coping with anything, I have shared my own opinions about the job that the devs HAVE done and the job they are still attempting to do. It would bare no meaning whatsoever, if I was simply doing it to harass and demean their work in the same way that other forum members tend to do.
If you think that them adding perks like Scourge Hooks, DMS, Deadlock, Call of Brine were not added based on high efficiency, then I'd argue that you do not understand what high efficiency actually means, considering that you can combo these perks pretty well with each other and other perks and can make an impact on the match itself.
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Okay, that is why this game is dying because of the developers' mind set.
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While the OP scenario is an extreme one, its not uncommon for the 1st chase to cost half the survivor objective, 2-3 gens. Its really not that hard to do, all it takes is for you to split up on gens at game start. If you can hit skill checks consistently (which lets face it is pretty easy to do) its even easier.
The game is by no means over if that happens, but 1 hook for 3 gens can be an uphill battle if you don't snowball as killer applying really strong pressure in the late game.
If I've got everyone on 1st hook with 3-4 gens still up I'm typically laughing. More often I'm sweating to make up the pressure I've lost. 2-3 games of that sure but after 10 games of that in a row I'm kinda "eh I'm over this."
Couple that with all the abuse you take for eliminating someone early in an attempt apply the same pressure and it gets tiresome quickly. If people expect to burn through gens for permanent pressure they gotta expect the opponent to burn through hooks and eliminate someone for the same permanent pressure.
The best way to apply pressure as survivor is to split up, spread out and complete multiple far apart gens quickly. The best way to apply pressure as killer is to eliminate a survivor as quickly as possible.
Both these things are norms, not something to get angry over, but rather anticipated as a likely game scenario.
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Everything is said here, it's not a gen speed problem, it's not a map problem, it's a spawn problem.
Imo, the 4 survivors should always spawn together, the farest possible from all generators (computer science graph lessons are haunting me). Gens being the objective, it isn't right that survivors start the trial literally in front of a gen, I think.
I mean, imagine if the killer started 5 meters from a survivor. That would be the same thing (okay, exaggerated but you got the point).
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love the "us v them" energy here. kinda like how every killer main is "nerf this survivor Perk because i said so" or " i didnt 4k this round so obviously everyone is bullying me/cheating"
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yes some new killers say i didn't 4k so they are obviously cheating, yea but when u camp at 1 gen with 0 hooks and then get the ggez and baby killer in the chat because u aren't running what every single killer is running, while EVERY SINGLE survivor is running dead hard, ds a flashlight and boons it tends to get a tiny bit frustrating, while EVERY survivor complains about noed even tho its an end game collapse perk and can be easily countered by doing bones and does help you mid or early game
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I'm sure the devs will read this and decide Pig needs a nerf
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keep generalizing, really helps your argument.
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your big problem is that you don't understand the game, don't expect balance. remember this rule swf > killer>solo q. If you play a weak assassin that's what you're going to expect. I have 7 thousand hours of play and a killer of m1 against a regular team. It's always the same result, don't stress and just enjoy
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This happens a lot to me and doesn’t everyone agree that shroud of binding should be a killer offering cause then there all together and can’t to separate gens
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I 100% agree. They have the killer and survivor offerings for this messed up. Though personally I don't think survivors should have an offering to all start separated due to the variation in map sizes. Their's could be changed to let them start at a certain position on the map like main building or shack. Or maybe something like spawn near a chest.
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I agree. Corrupt Intervention should be base kit. It makes sense. Doesn't the Entity NOT want them to escape? I always felt it'd help out more by default instead of just getting fed... xD
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It's honestly hilarious to see some people trying to argue COH makes gens go faster, if you stay injured and rush gens they will get done faster EVERY time it's mathematically impossible for them to get done faster if you heal everytime you're injured and go back to a gen, it makes doing a gen easier for bad survivors who need that first hit to run a killer but I'll bet the house on it that I can run a squad with adrenaline, resilience, and prove thyself and get the gens done faster than any COH squad out there because if you're healing even if it's only 16-20 secs it adds up when multiple people do it and I can start equating it to gens that would've been done.
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This is why I decided to play more survivor until killers get some deserved love. Playing killer is NOT fun anymore.
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You're assuming that survivors choose to stay injured unless COH is present. That's not the case for most survivors. Therefore they spend more time off gens healing than they would if COH was present. Also, COH allows one survivor to heal themselves instead of needing another survivor to do it for them, so that frees up one survivor to stay on gens for that time.
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It doesn't matter either way I could take a squad without COH anyday of the week and get the gens done faster than a squad who resets even one at a time like that, COH is good about getting pressure off of survivors but at a exchange of slowing the game down and resources being wasted while you aren't on a gen because even if healing only took 16 secs solo which I believe it's longer after the nerf , it still takes time to go back and forth to the zone because survivors who run that perk will tell you themselves they put it in a zone where gens are completed so you're running away from the objective to make it happen in the first place, while that perk may be great for some survivors, the good survivors don't need it because they can run the killer injured and if everyone is staying on gens all it takes is for 2 good chases to end a game, 1 chase at the beginning 2-3 gens should pop and then during second chase the last two should be getting done if the person unhooked hops straight on a gen without a reset and the game is over it's really that simple
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You're still acting under the assumption that most survivors play that way. They don't. They may wait until it's convenient to heal, sure, but they don't stay injured the whole game just to rush gens.
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You're missing the point, I understand that not all survivors play that way but someone made a comment that COH made gens go faster and that's just a blatant lie and a excuse is all it is because there's no way I spend all that time healing and get gens done as fast as the way I described above which is how my swf plays when we team up
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Of course it's possible. It takes 80 seconds for a gen on a solo survivor. Doing gens in parallel is the most basic and by far the fastest way to escape.
If you are unlucky the next 2 gens will pop about 100 seconds later and the game will be over.
Yay for skill.
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To be fair, boons are a secondary objective added for killers, Sisyphus-style. One can understand we don't want something similar for survivors too.
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I think this is more a issue of the chicken and the egg.
Killers camp&tunnel, because gens fly by so fast. Gens fly by so fast, because killers camp&tunnel.
Now if we turn back time to around before Undying received its nerf. Camping and tunneling threads were non existant. We had tons of threads that complained about Undying but no one complained about camping. Why? Because a killer who wanted to get any benefit out of Undying Ruin, had to constantly switch targets and patrol gens. Basically everything survivors ever wanted.
Yet here we are. Now stack on top of that CoH, which completely killed hit&run and you see why killers camp&tunnel. Because there is no way around it. Sadly.
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