Not naming, but people openly admit deranking and then say the game, certain perks etc are balanced
Title. I see this in numerous places even here on the forums where people openly admit they try not to kill people, at most they go for 2 hooks and stop (some just go for BBQ stacks)
Some say once they reach max grade they stop trying and dont go for kills or escapes they just mess around etc.
I see these same people comment on balance, and honestly your opinion is void because you are actively deranking on purpose, the moment you avoid your objective on purpose you're deranking.
Just saying... I'm not saying dont play for fun, but dont actively avoid it on purpose.
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My instinctive response is that these people still have a voice on balance. The distinction that makes players that actively lower their MMR disgusting, are the ones that advertise how good they are at some aspect of the game.
Great survivor main that plays baby killers. Nice job dude 👍
Like, for instance, imagine a killer main that has fifty win streaks that they thump their chest on, then you realize they dodged lobbies if they knew the survivors they chanced on are really good or have too many items.
Kind of stains the rep they’re seeking to attain.
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Nah. I do both, my opinion on balance is more well rounded than someone who only does one or the other. You think I am going to go high mmr on an m1? Hell no. I already did with Freddy and it gave me depression. I also play my Bubby Boi at high mmr, so I know the struggle. I know what good survivors are capable of. And I see what you are saying too, there are people who play against potato and act like the game is fair because of it. Conversely, because I play at high mmr too, I know a lot of complaints are exaggerated. Survivors, even at high mmr, will throw the game in the name of altruism. That's facts.
Reality is they cannot balance the game for everyone. The game is absolutely killer sided at lower levels, relatively balanced at mid tiers, and unequivocally survivor sided at high levels. Like it or not, this spread IS balance. They know it which is why they maintain it. That is why most survivor nerfs are specifically to bully squads and killer buffs are mostly placebo. They just want the experience to feel better in hopes that people complain less. I think that they did a pretty good job. They let us keep Nurse, they let us keep facecamping Bubba. If you want to play your killer that is not viable at high mmr, you need to play them at a lower mmr. End of story. Pick a viable killer if you want to compete.
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I dont believe they have any opinion, if youre a skillful player you should verse skillful people. If you're skillful and verse weaker people your opinion is going to be very misleading as you're against people you shouldn't be.
Not to mention the people on the other hand who are versing someone who has deranked, they are obviously gonna get the wrong impressions as well because they're versing someone they shouldn't
It just ruins the whole system and twists feedback.
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The devs don't give a ######### about balancing, so we have to do it ourselves, simple as that. We can still judge what is balanced and what needs to be changed. If we had balanced matches we wouldn't need to lose MMR in the first place.
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I'm not saying people have to be forced to max, but as soon as you avoid getting a single kill that's misleading and unfair for other people.
I know the games hell at high mmr killer but they wont ever make changes if people derank and mislead everyone. Especially streamers...
These are the people who would say DH is fine and claim they play at the cap but in a different post admit to deranking... it's all misleading and I dont like that, people should just play how they're meant to and give accurate feedback, I hate the whole exaggerating thing... even in YT titles and people cant see past it...
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Truest of the trues, if you don't play for the win then your opinion on balance doesn't matter at all because you are getting a different experience from people that play the game normally.
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Don't take this the wrong way but... how are you only just now noticing this?
The forums have always been this way. Someone who says they only ever play survivor plays 5 games of killer and says it's sooooo easy, why do killers always complain? Someone who only plays as a 4-stack says all the people complaining about survivor are just plain wrong... even though they never play solo. (I remember some people rudely saying that the 3-man lobby glitch didn't exist... while also stating they never played outside a 4-man SWF. ####ing hell, people.)
Everyone's biased. Nothing on these forums can be taken at face value. People's opinions are just that: opinions.
It just ruins the whole system and twists feedback.
You make this sound like this is the fault of the players. It's not. Players have been asking for a casual mode since time immemorial. There's only one mode, meaning all different playstyles have to play together. That's the only option BHVR has given them. So people who want to play competitively are put with people who want to play casually are put with people who want to meme around and practically play a different game altogether. People who play to win are put with people who play for BP are put with people who are doing a Daily/Tome challenge. People who are trying out something new are put with people who are playing at their best.
Sucks for all of us. And it's why people are so often saying, "BHVR doesn't listen to us!" Well, BHVR does listen, they just don't necessarily act on it because player feedback is inherently flawed.
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I don't think it's really black or white. Someone who is biased is going to be biased regardless of whether they're smurfing or not and someone who is going to try to see all sides will do the same regardless.
As an example, Tru doesn't camp or tunnel as it can really suck for those on the receiving end. I do the same. However, camping and tunneling are definitely very effective strategies. Not doing so will cause you to lose some games you could have won otherwise. Is that smurfing?
Also, after hitting Iri One quite a few people change out load outs and instead of IW, DH, DS and BT they might run WGLF, MoM, Empathy and Self Care. They're still trying to escape but sub optimal perk choices will lower your success rate. But they do it to have fun. Is that smurfing?
What about giving mercy to a survivor who requests it? After multiple games of being camped and tunneled you might be stressed out and just want an easy escape or Rift challenge. Is the killer smurfing by recognizing that?
On the bottom line, we play this game to have fun and, unless it involves intentionally ruining the fun for other people maliciously, we can't be fun police and say one type of fun is wrong and another is good. As for the data, that's not our job. As a professional gaming company it's BHVR's job to analyze the data, interpret it, and apply it; not the consumers. We're not being paid for that and the only thing we should really do, in my opinion, is keep in mind it's complicated to balance a game, moreso if it's assymetrical, and that BHVR is trying while we offer our feedback.
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You cant add a casual mode, this splits the community even more. The community is already split to killer/survivor so adding a casual mode will split that into 4 groups. Also anyone can easily jump into a casual mode even the best player and alot of people would.
Iv known this for awhile it's just really bugging me as I'm seeing it pop up alot about real game issues but they dismiss it and act like they arent deranking when they admit it in other comments...
Playing for hooks isnt deranking. I'll put it in the example you used with true. Let's say true goes for hooks, that's great! Props for him that's the best and hardest playstyle but just because he is doing that doesnt mean he is deranking... however if true suddenly stopped killing people then he is. People are actively making sure they dont get a kill.
It's not about going for hooks, it's about avoid kills at all costs. You dont see true go "oh yes been hooked twice, I wont hook him again or I'll get a kill"
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Their opinion still matters although I am one of those people who doesn't really try when I get to iridescent 1
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Or you know they know how good at the game they are, made it to those high sweaty ratings, learned they didn't want games like that and then chose to de-rank where they play casually and friendly so everyone has fun.
Honestly I would say these are the good guys keeping the community afloat, and I would sooner take their opinion over anyone else.
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Sounds good, thanks for explaining further.
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this splits the community even more. The community is already split to killer/survivor so adding a casual mode will split that into 4 groups.
Fair enough, but it means balance discussions will always be imbalanced for this exact reason. Everyone wants changes that suit their playstyle.
Also anyone can easily jump into a casual mode even the best player and alot of people would.
Casual mode would have to go beyond name only and actually enforce a different ruleset that removes the ability to play efficiently and kind of disables the standard version of winning so it wouldn't appeal to those who actually want to play to win. It would be nice to have, but it would be a lot of work for BHVR, and will never happen, so it's not really worth going into. But a true and desirable casual mode would not simply disable BP gains, which (going by the most recent survey) is what BHVR seems to be considering. If that's what they do, even I wouldn't play it, as it would be the exact same if not worse than normal mode just without the BP reward.
it's just really bugging me as I'm seeing it pop up alot about real game issues but they dismiss it and act like they arent deranking when they admit it in other comments...
Some people may be outright lying, but for others it may be a semantics issue. Some people actually don't enjoy taking other people permanently out of the game, which is what killing does. Though avoiding killing means their MMR stays low, they don't play for the specific purpose of deranking: it's just a side effect. (Not trying to make an argument of this or anything. It's just an observation that some people are not intentionally attempting to deceive. Anyone deceiving on purpose is not cool.)
Also, some people go back and forth, sometimes playing casually at a low MMR and sometimes playing hardcore at a high MMR, so when they're discussing balance issues they're probably talking about when they're playing to win at high MMR, but if you don't know that for sure then it muddies the issue. No one knows what their MMR actually is, nor the MMR of their opponents, which only makes balance discussions more difficult.
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Yeah, I avoid guessing at my MMR for that reason. I'm fairly certain my Artist is higher MMR than my M1 killers because I see (a) a lot more meta perks and possible SWFs and (b) except for one day on grades based mmr which had 2 4 person SWF teams taking me to the Game my Artist games felt normal nearly the entire time while, on some MMR test days, trying out M1 killers I normally don't play was excruciatingly painful.
However, where is that MMR on Artist? Medium? High? Low? It's probably not low because the survivors I face have meta teachables unlocked but it could easily be mid.
People can't say they're high MMR because, unless you're Otz or tournament players like Oracle, who knows?
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The majority of us dont wanna be at cap or verse the stupidly sweaty games that exist, does that mean everyone should just lower their mmr? No if that's such an issue BHVR should fix it, but so many people will be deranking and the claim we cant make changes because of lower mmr which they currently derank into anyway giving them an unfair advantage...
Well I think its pretty simple to calculate roughly where you are, if you consistently win over 65%+ of your games youd be high mmr.
Although there are some very weird things concerning servers and time played, and it's a huge reason I avoid streamers as they dont get the same experience
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If you derank it does not automatically mean that all your previous experience does not exist.
System is flawed. Hard games do not feel rewarded. People are people.
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Nah the developers are just worried about a Death Garden repeat. You know they hate Bubba's guts but are afraid to do anything about him because it might kill off even more of the playerbase. That's why they let you keep Bubba. Same for Nurse, SWF etc.
Big changes are dangerous, doing nothing is the safest option.
Post edited by Sludge on0 -
Did it ever dawn on you that those same people play like that BECAUSE the game is unbalanced?
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It's like they don't realize that not caring if you lose, losing multiple times to go down in MMR, and then facing babies is what causes them to have such an easy fun time. Of course you're gonna be able to beat survivors or killers while using whatever perks when you're playing people below your skill level.
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We're not talking about the way that they play. We're talking about them going against lower skill people intentionally, and then acting like they can base their takes on game balance off of their clearly skewed results. And when those people are in positions of influence, that's wrong and that's dangerous for the game's future.
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Again, you are taking those conclusions OUT OF ORDER.
The game is unbalanced, so as a RESULT they derank.
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I understand why they de-rank: because the game's unbalanced. But what I don't understand is why they'll, for example, be unsuccessful with a perk at high rank (the most accurate place to get balance data from), then de-rank to where they're facing worse opponents, and then they crush using that same perk, and from there they go on to say the perk is strong or OP. It's the dishonesty when speaking on balance issues that is the problem, not because they simply de-ranked. And this is common practice, so you can see why we think it's bad and it's out of control.
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Trust me, I know the games unbalanced I have been here since the start and play both roles (killer much less since mmr) and I make posts on these issues.
It's not even the fact people derank so much, I get it the games unfun high up only reason I dont derank is because it would takes me ages to lower my mmr on everyone now and the fact it's not fair on everyone else.
However when I complain about imbalances those people who do derank will just say their games are fine... well obviously you derank..
It's about the manipulation and lies people create, the system is already flawed and the game has imbalances but people deranking and lying just makes the situation worse...
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The only OP perks in the game are Dead Hard and Iron Will anyway.
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You're right they did just fix this in the recent MMR changes. Well at least made it better. A lot of players even in the higher ranges of MMR were not having fun, so they widened the scale to add more assorted games into the matchmaking. Now instead of just getting Balanced - Difficult games, you get a range from Easy - Hard games. Since the recent changes I have already noticed a significant drop in the amount of players dcing, suiciding, and going afk in my matches - so the changes they've made must be working.
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I'd say there's more than that, but preach.
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I think a few are borderline depending on spec, like I think Tinkerer is broken on Blight and Dead Man Switch is broken on Artist.
But those two come to mind as being busted 100% of the time.
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It might be better for abit, but in the long run it will return back to normal especially at the top/lower end.
The issue is they have just adjusted the cap so people will just get pushed lower and the top will be all the same players again.
The real fix would be a change in the actual system, for example changing survivor so escapes isnt the only criteria
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