Spine chill shouldn't work on Undetectable Killers/Perks
Spine chill is a great perk and I love it myself when I play survivors but when I play killer and any stealth killer it's a absolute nightmare. I thought there are stealth killer to Well...stealth... Also the effect called on these killers is basically called Undetectable...so it doesn't make sense for spine chill to tell you that a invisible wraith is coming in your direction.
Spine chill can work for the Oblivious effect and like always to any other moment, but the moment the killer has the Undetectable effect trough there basekit, addons or perks spine chill shouldn't show that the killer is coming.
Comments
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Seeing more and more spine chill, had 3 in multiple matches last night.
These same survivors will tell you, "the chase is the main fun of the game"
yeah, cept you guys run across map before we even get there.
When I approach a gen I look to the 45 angle and not at gens directly sometimes I stare at a gen while I am not even going that way to make them get off gens
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Yes, it makes no sense and also destroys the rest of the horror atmosphere in the game.
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That would make any stealth killer overpowered.
And Spine Chill would be useless
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Spine Chill is great perk and its counter to stealth killers. But i remember when i was outplayed by Pig player coming to gen but not looking to my direction :D
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I'm sorry you don't like survivors having tools to help them, but spine chills only purpose is to help against stealth killers. The speed boost is largely irrelevant except in chase where stealth is also irrelevant. And against normal heartbeat killers, you don't need it at all.
Try approaching generators looking off to one side 30 degrees.
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We really don't need to nerf Spine Chill.
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You should be happy they decided to have spine chill instead of a meta perk, people ######### about broken meta perks all the time and then when survivors run something else and get use out of it in a game people want to cry just as hard about it.
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Like other people said, the whole point of Spine Chill is it’s a tool to use against Undetectable killers. That’s not a bug, it’s a feature. Also, as a killer, I often can get ambushes on Spine Chill survivors simply by staring directly at generators they work on while I move toward them. In fact it feels like there are quite a few survivors who use that perk and watch that icon and it distracts them from just watching the surroundings so if a killer sidesteps towards them they don’t see it coming.
That said, I never really understood why it also gives survivors extra vault speed. It probably is a solid perk without the speed boost, but that’s just a guess. 🤷♂️
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You can’t move your camera around no?
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As you see above, people think the speed boost part of the perk, "largely irrelevant"
Yeah ok survivor mains, sure vault speed increase is irrelevant. Tell that to Clown or Bubba
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There is nothing people don't want nerfed in this game lmao. Like turning one of the decent perks into a useless perk. It's not OP, it can be countered. Would you guys rather see more spine chills or DH/BT, since that's the perks I see you guys always complaining about. If anything you guys should put more energy into asking for weak/useless perks to be BUFFED instead of nerfing decent perks.
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They want to see flip-flop or power struggle level perks on survivors.
Anything that is useless.
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Nerf this... Nerf that... Like smh...
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Reading comprehension for the win. I said except in chase...
If the perk was gain 6% vault speed and nothing else, no one would ever take it. Resilience is 9% and VERY VERY few people take that, so spine chill has a niche which is use against stealth killers. clear?
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yeah, the speed boosts are irrelevant, cept when "Repairing, Healing, Sabotaging, Unhooking, Vaulting, Cleansing, Opening, and Unlocking"
I don't care if its nerfed or not, but don't try to act like these boosts don't help speed up the game on your side. LOL
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Completely agree.
It's unfair how hard Spinechill counters Myers and Ghostface.
...How?
Are stealth killers overpowered without SC? Because I don't think a single one of them is above 'C' tier.
Wraith, Pig, Myers, Onryo and Ghosty are all pretty crap against survivors that know what they are doing, with or without this perk.
SC is an incredible early warning system that also gives you hefty advantages in chase (that vault speed has saved my butt so many times).
The issue is that stalking killers are straight up blind-countered by this one perk, which is pretty unhealthy for the game. The entire point of stealth killers is that their terrible kits are somewhat balanced by better approaches. SC completely negates this aspect.
This wouldn't be so much a nerf to SC as it would be a small buff to Myers and Ghostface, and a smaller buff to Pig, Onryo and Wraith. Which is not a bad thing - all of these killers need buffs.
When you strawman, you concede the argument.
I enjoy playing survivor as well as killer, and I'd be happy to see SC not work against stealth killers, especially Myers and Ghostface.
One already very powerful perk shouldn't hard counter two entire killer kits, on top of being excellent against everyone else.
That's a bad design oversight.
See above.
The issue isn't the overall power of SC, it's that it completely breaks two killers and makes 3 others a lot weaker - all of which are already weak killers.
Even if it didn't work against undetectable killers, it would still be a five star perk.
...Wat. SC is an amazing perk against basically all killers.
SC would be crazy good even if it didn't work when a killer was undetectable. It's never left my bars and probably never will - the early warning aspect is amazing and the vault speed alone is massively powerful. On top of this, it makes mindgames much more difficult to execute (you can use SC as a compass to determine roughly where the killer is).
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Nerf it and you can trow it into the endless abyss of worthless Survivor perks that almost no one runs.
I love Spine Chill because I don't like being scared jumped and it helps with also different situations (like Nurse is blinking towards your direction, etc.)
If this perk is nerfed I will have to replace it with meta perk I quess.
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Let me guess next you want to remove undetectable from Tinkerer, aura reading from BBQ and self-healing from Self-Care.
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prime example of killers complaining about EVERY perk a survivor has (example 10000000000)
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The game is based around perks, it only makes sense that discussion forums discuss "perks."
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SC is already a meta perk, frankly. I see it almost as much as I do Dead Hard and I probably value it as much as any survivor perk I can think of.
The issue is that it hard counters two entire killers (which is a bit silly for one perk) and substantially negates the kits of 3 other killers, all of which are already on the weaker side.
If you made it not work against killers when they are undetectable, it would still be an incredible perk - it's one of the few perks that has incredible utility both in chase and outside of chase.
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It is only 6% while being looked directly at. So for the 7 seconds it takes the killer to close the distance to the generator, you would have gotten the generator done a whole 0.35 seconds faster.... whoopdy f-in do.
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doesnt change the fact.....no matter what if a survivor uses it....its time to nerf it...from what i can gather the only way to truly make people happy is just to take perks completely away
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I did not say it is OP, which is why you won't see me asking for a nerf. But I myself have gotten gates opened simply having killer running towards me while I open a gate, similar to Wake Up. To act as if, the speed boosts are irrelevant shows you must not ran the perk yourself to understand how it can benefit you.
I never said the perk is too strong, I simply said the speed boosts are not irrelevant like people make them out to be.
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I think "weak" is subjective. Sure myers and ghostface may be "weak" vs the top 10% of the survivor players. But they may be decent vs the bottom 90% of survivors. The point of the perks is to tell you if a undetectable killers are coming towards you. We can already hear the heart beat at 32 meters for most killers, or at 24, or 16 with M&A. If the perk were to become useless against the undetectable killers it would be worthless to run it at that point. And honestly the way I look at spine chill to me. It's essentially a casual perk, I use it when I play solo since I like to tune out and listen to things in the background. So I can listen to a video, or when I'm hearing the T.V. If spine chill where to get nerfed I would play way less. I would only play with my friends, it's not that fun to sit and do a gen I like to enjoy listening to my podcast. The perk can be countered, and I lost to myers and ghostface in the past despite running spine chill, it's not OP. You can actually use spine chill against survivors believe it or not.
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Nah, it would join the other "ok" tier perks that would just few people run.
I would rather face Spine Chill players (that you can soft counter by your camera) than another Adrenaline, Iron Will, etc.
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No one is "complaining" about spine chill.
It is an objective truth that stealth killers are weaker than most of the killer roster and one singular perk can ruin the entire premise of their gameplay; be scary and sneak up.
I'd also like for someone to explain to me how Ghostface and Myers can "avoid" spine chill when their power revolves around staring at survivors.
Please enlighten me as to why certain killers need to be butchered because of one perk and that asking that stealth killers that are Undetectable be actually undetectable is too much to ask for in a game where advanced knowledge and communication can completely turn a game around?
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Use resilience for speed boosts, use spine chill for stealth, the fact that it sometimes has side benefit is good, it means its not useless when you don't face a stealth killer. But let's not pretend that side benefit works miracles
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Did you see me ask for a nerf? People are allowed to discuss things here, especially perks. That is what the forum is for.
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That extra speed can make the difference between finishing the gen or having the killer put a Pop+CoB kick into it. But the gen repairing is probably the least powerful aspect of it.
Here's more powerful scenarios.
- Killer is approaching, you are busy healing. Spinechill allows me to finish the heal, killer then baps the person and rather than being dead, they now escape.
- We're both on the shack tile, doing the whole silly mindgame thing. I see SC lighting up and going dark, and using it I can roughly guess where the killer is and even have an idea how far away they are (quicker light/dark means they are further away, slower means they are close) and can win the mindgame.
- Killer is right behind me. I vault and narrowly avoid getting hit and can make it to a safe tile. Without SC, I'd be downed.
SC is a banger of a perk - but all of the above have some counterplay. The problem is when you add the following:
- There's a Ghostface or Myers stalking me. Without SC, I'd be instadowned. With SC, I immediately know what's happening and am on my way. Both of these killers are wrecked by this perk.
There's literally no way for the Myers or Ghosty to prevent this - it's just a blind counter.
This. And BHVR can't just buff the hell out of stealth killers, due to how difficult they are for newer players to face.
IW is another problem due to it hard countering Spirit unless she brings a specific addon.
I disagree that SC would only be 'okay'. I reckon I could make a good case for it still being a top tier perk - it's just so damn versatile and helps everyone from brand new players to veterans.
Don't strawman.
'x is badly designed because it hard counters several killers and strongly soft counters another 3' is not 'nerf everything'.
Sometimes things need a nerf, for the good of the game.
It does though.
I'm a pretty bad survivor, and SC has already won me games essentially single handedly. That Myers got stuck in T1 for an extra minute. That GF couldn't mark me, and instead got revealed. That Pig wasted her approach. That Wraith got lightburned rather than hitting me. I got through shack window another time without a hit. That person who was getting tunneled got healed and made it to safety.
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You can stalk while a survivor flees, you can stalk for a few seconds while the survivor realizes what is going on and relocates. Survivors cannot teleport with spine chill, all it does is provide knowledge early. This does reduce the effectiveness of stalking or stealth killers in general, and that is its point. It is literally made to do this function.
To talk about nerfing its primary function, when all of the meta perks are stronger against stealth killers is misguided. All perks should be buffed to this level of potential use. Strong in some situations and weak in others. Or the perks should be clearly fun, like headon. Clearly the weakest of the exhaustion perks(except overcome, i haven't gotten value out of this) but can sometimes be hilarious.
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Barely. Particularly on Myers, stalking slows to a crawl as you make distance and all he's doing is burning through 'stalk juice'.
Teleport? No. But I think you're underestimating just how much a few seconds advantage makes in a chase.
'Just buff everything' is often a fine sentiment, but is also unrealistic. Sometimes it's easier just to apply a small nerf to the outliers - and in this case would be good for the health of the game, as it would also be a small defacto buff to several killers that are struggling.
SC is a meta perk. Hell, I'll note down how often I run into it (generally at least 1 survivor every game, sometimes as many as 4).
But you do put your finger on a key point here - perks should be strong in some scenarios and weak in others. Generally this means that they need to have counterplay.
Tell me - what is the counterplay to SC as a Myers or Ghostface?
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Except it is a nerf to Spine Chill, like, objectively?
Yeah, if you approach a gen without looking directly at it, you can actually catch people off guard better than you usually would since they're expecting Spine Chill to light up.
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How would you use ghostface’s power without looking directly at survivors?
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You don't, but it takes like 2.5 seconds to fully stalk while leaning. That's not really much time to react at all.
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Exactly. The last time sc appeared as a must use perk for me, a brilliantly played ghostface snuck around me and stalked me from an unexpected angle to full before i could get away from the gen and i was downed while vaulting 2 seconds later. Spine chill lit up and i spun my xamera to see where he was. Too late. Now i use it when goofing around only. It just isnt THAT strong
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To be honest I would stop playing solo survivor at that point.
When I am in 4 SWF I dont need Spine Chill because at comms I get all the information I need about where is the killer, not so in solo, the way I see it Spine Chill almost a must have to survive in solo.
And I am the same I dont want to be jumpscared or pay extreme amount of attention, just want to play casually, destroyed by stealth killers in solo, I would just abandon solo
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"Spine chill shouldn't work on Undetectable Killers/Perks"
I've always thought being a defense against Stealth killers was a part of the entire point of Spine Chill.
That said, I can see an argument for a nerf. Maybe reduce the distance it takes to trigger on an Undetectable killer? That way an Undetectable killer still has an advantage while an observant survivor can still make use of the perk.
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Mori shouldn't work on a survivor that has DS active.
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when you say make it where it doesnt work against certain killers.....its a nerf
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Yeah, it is.
The fact that you got outplayed by someone doesn't mean the perk isn't a problem. It just means that someone was a bit more skilled than you.
'This perk is fine because survivors sometimes make mistakes' isn't a good argument. I saw the same damn stuff trotted out to defend CoH auras stacking, old OoO, old DS etc.
Spine Chill is amazing in SWFs, almost as good as old OoO was. And that's before we get into the bonus speeds.
It's also great in solo.
The fact that you are so dependent on this single perk probably means that it needs a look, in and of itself.
I agree that solo survivors need some help - and they are getting it. My guess is that the new statuses will be coming in a few months for the anniversary. But this one perk and the way it punishes specific killers with zero realistic counterplay isn't good for the game.
The issue isn't just marking - it's catching the marked survivor off guard.
But it's hard to talk accurately about Ghosty right now due to his rework, and how much depends on whether the changes to reveal come out to a nerf or not.
Let's talk about Myers.
How does a Myers play around Spinechill?
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Not everything needs to be nerfed. Perks are supposed to give you an advantage.
If it's to nerf everything, might as well make the game completely perkless.
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No it would make it so survivors actually have to stay more vigilant and not have a perk tell them the killers coming. The stealth killers are m1 killers, you can't make them OP with anything.
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Spine chill should work like Premonition, if Killer looks at your direction for 1sec, the perk activated, your action speed +6% for 3sec. Then the perk gets cooled down for 30sec.
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Do... Do you not have ears and eyes? How are you playing the game without those???
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Right, if it’s “irrelevant” then why even have it in the perk?
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Spine Chill partially counters Stealth but not completely. Like I said above, I catch Spine Chill survivors pretty commonly just by sidestepping toward generators. It’s obviously a good perk against Stealth but it’s not a complete negation.
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My problem is how much it hard counters myers and ghostface. Other stealth killers it's not the biggest worry. But those two have to run into it because of their design.
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You can attempt to mindgame it like that, but even if you do - it's still a powerful early warning system against killers who rely on sneaky approaches.
I know that even as a beginner survivor, it's strong. If I see it light up and then go dark and nobody else is being chased, I know to be on my guard - even in this scenario it's basically Whispers that also gives me a pretty powerful speed boost, with zero cooldown, at times when I need it the most.
Then add on the fact that it blind counters Myers (against savvy survivors, you can find yourself stuck in T1 for ages), at the very least soft counters a bunch of other killers...any perk that requires you to play as if it were present even if it's not probably suggests that this perk might be on the OP side.
It would still be amazing even if it didn't function when a killer was undetectable.
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That would make spine chill useless. You don't need it agains't killers who has normal terror radius so if it does not work agains't undetectable killers no-one wouldn't use it. I used only when I was new at the game but if you can look around 95% of time you don't need it.
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