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Circle of Healing shouldn't self-heal
Circle of Healing cannot be balanced in its current state because it's too efficient for one perk slot to provide self healing to the whole team.
The issue isn't the Boon mechanic. All the other Boons are balanced or underpowered. In fact, I think that boons could have their range increased back to 28 meters once COH is taken care of.
Circle of Healing should have self healing removed, boost healing speeds by 100% and increase the efficiency of medkits by 50%. Strong and worth the perk slot but not crazy.
Comments
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Meh
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Would you bring that perk as solo survivor?
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With a medkit, yes.
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So for a perk to be useable for yourself you'd need to bring a medkit?
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Boons without being able to self heal would only be good for SWF.
Why would a solo player bring that at all?
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I've seen a video that suggests make Circle of Healing either teamwide self-healing or teamwide speed-healing, but not both.
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It turns a brown medkit without addons into a double heal medkit with 100% speed. Also, anyone who heals in the circle gets We'll Make It. And if you really want to get spicy it would make Self-Care normal medkit speed
But yeah its best with a medkit. Literally any medkit.
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Ok, but that implies healing others, in solo q. Where is my benefit as a solo player?
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The entire idea behind Boons is that they're for team play. Think of COH needing to be brought down to Dark Theory, Shadow Step and Exponential level. If its better than those perks its probably still too strong
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Except dark theory is trash and exponential is situational. Shadow step and CoH are the only 2 good boons.
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Unfortunately team play only counts when you are in a SWF, solo Q is full of selfish people.
I don't think COH is too strong right now after the nerfs, and I think the other boons are mediocre, besides shadow step which is the only one I have a problem with.
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Altruism points and Benevolent emblems.
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Which I can get without using COH.
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And can potentially get more easily with.
Also, forgot to mention Survival points from Self-healing.
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You're not really looking at COH from an overall balance perspective. You're just looking at it from the perspective of if you, a solo queue survivor, would run it for your own benefit.
My guess is that you probably would never run perks like Empathic Connection, Borrowed Time or We'll Make It. But you might appreciate if other people ran them.
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Solo Q is part of balance. I know everyone likes to forget it, but solo q exists and also needs to be thought about when talking about balance issues.
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The thought in my head right now is that even if the queue is solo, it's is still a team game. That teammate you unhook or heal may be the one that comes in clutch by saving you, or finishing the last gen.
In context, the teammate that uses your Circle of Healing to get to full health may be the one that ends up running the Killer while you get the last gen done or save someone else.
You asked for a benefit? Helping your team generally benefits you, and all you really gotta do is take the time to bless an out of the way totem.
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Me helping my team doesnt mean my team is gonna help me.
And my helping my team escape, doesn't really benefit me in any way? Sure, I can get a good ol pat on the back for being a good team mate, but in terms of game rewards what do I get?
Example: I stay to save a team mate, save them and I get hooked, they survive and I die. What game benefit did I get from it? None. I get a lower MMR, I dont get escape BP.
And no, me stating factual stuff from the game doesn't mean I am a selfish survivor, like the OP decided to claim.
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If you're gonna remove the self healing, let people see the auras of injured people in its radius, or let people in its radius see injured people
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Hence "generally benefits you" and not "always benefits you"
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I said that you seem to ignore the team perspective of the game. Self-interested is slightly different than selfish.
Not being very helpful to teammates unless it directly benefits you (self-interested) is different from being perfectly comfortable with sandbagging/farming teammates when it benefits you (selfish)
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I would go with the "mostly doesn't benefit you" instead.
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I am helpful to team mates. But that like I said, doesn't make them helpful to me.
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The crazy part about DBD if that the most optimal coordinated teams will split up virtually at all times and are willing to let individual teammates get tunneled/camped to win the overall game.
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Making it in a lot of times smarter to not be a team player. So with that mentality in mind, which is a lot of times created by the game itself, why would a solo player bring COH instead of just a medkit/Selfcare? Selfcare also increases healing of someone else afaik, and a medkit surely does.
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As a survivor main, I barely even see CoH anymore. Its a novelty when it's there and even then it seems to get stamped out pretty quickly .
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Same almost nobody using it anymore.
In SWF it has high value though
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Except for those aforementioned Altruism and Benevolence points, which do benefit you and you only get by helping your team in some way.
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Maybe limit the amount of people who can use it at any one time to one survivor then?
That way it nerfs SWF but stays useful for solo?
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I like that idea. Though I can already imagine injured survivors just sitting in the Circle waiting for someone to come heal them.
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Self Healing is hypothetically ok, strong or weak entirely depending on how long it takes to heal. For example, if CoH allowed you to heal yourself, but it took 60 seconds to finish, you’d be crazy to do that, you may as well just be out of the game and let the killer run wild in a 3v1 for 60 seconds while you heal yourself at that point. On the other hand, self healing that only takes a few seconds is too strong. So somewhere between those extremes is a time length where self healing using CoH is useful enough to equip the perk but still has enough of a trade off in the time it takes that it’s not overpowered.
The newest nerf to CoH that’s coming next week puts it at something like 21 seconds? I don’t know off-hand if that’s too slow or too fast or about right but it is a bit faster than just having the Self-Care perk itself (which takes 32 seconds) but with the disadvantage you have to spend some seconds running to where the totem is to use it, have to spend time blessing a totem initially, and if the totem is snuffed or the totem placer is killer then the ability is lost. So it probably is ok in general if it’s just slightly faster than Self Care by itself, meaning I’d think the range of 21-32 seconds is where it will be “good enough” without being too strong. We’ll see how things shake out next week I guess. 🤷♂️
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COH is balanced if you think of it only affecting the Survivor that brought it as an alternative to Self-Care.
But as soon as start to think about the fact that the perk affects other Survivors that didn't bring the perk giving them the full value. It gets pretty crazy.
Another way to nerf COH would be for its self-healing to be Self-Care 32 second speed for other Survivors but faster for the Survivor that brought the perk.
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That is true, but I'm honestly not sure what to do about the perk
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It wouldnt be worth a perk slot if two people have to run over half the map for a fast heal, while they could just heal way faster on spot.
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Like I said, though, it's all about the speed. If I put out a Circle of Healing totem and it takes other survivors and myself 60 seconds to heal with it nobody is going to actually bother using the totem. If I put out a totem and it takes other survivors 10 seconds to heal that's broken. Somewhere there's a middle ground where it's worth it for the self-healing and still not broken.
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Terrible idea, i am glad you are not dev.
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Nerfing CoH into the ground isn't the solution. If they make the boons breakable (either the bones or snuffing the power only once for a game) they can keep the boons powerful.
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No one would run it in solo q and maybe not even SWF. It would be used as much as buckle up. The time to locate, set-up, localized area and ease of snuff is not worth the reward of very fast healing only if you happen to have a teammate there or med-kit. I wouldn’t run it in solo q, it’s easier to just bring a med-kit or find teammates and use that perk slot for something else.
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last i checked COH on the PTB was so over tuned that it could let you heal faster then the killer's swing animation in the right circumstance (2 survivors healing someone at the same time)
the only "perfect" that was is "perfectly busted", hence why it got nerfed
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A lot of the power of CoH or booms in general that people seem to be ignoring is how many perk slots it’s consuming. Comparing it directly to SC isn’t quite fair because part of what makes SC bad is that it’s also taking a perk slot from everyone. The fact that CoH is one perk slot but for the entire team is extremely significant. Upcoming version of a 21 second heal from CoH for the entire team from just 1 perk slot is still busted. How long do y’all think it takes a killer to get a hit against a good survivor? Longer than 21 seconds is the answer on most the killer roster. Keep the new version of CoH coming out of the PTB but makes snuffing a totem break it as well. This keeps it strong but at least on a limited resource as the killer knows if he keeps sniffing them they will eventually run out of totems and gives SOME counter play as we currently have none.
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Maybe it should come with charges like medkits do. Once a boon is out of charges you'll have to put up another one or maybe they can go the extra mile and force survivors to go for a different totem.
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Give CoH a charge system like the medkits. One boon has 64 charges, enough for 4 full heals. Once it runs out of charges CoH disappears and to gain it back you gotta cleanse a totem. You can have it as a strong healing perk but now it has limited charges, one that you must refill with a limited resource (totems.) Stops people from spamming it all match too.
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All this really does though is ensure solo survivors don't equip it, which they're already unlikely to do with the upcoming slight nerf. The issue to me is that CoH can be problematic in the hands of coordinated swfs, and not being able to heal yourself probably won't matter to swfs who all "reset" themselves together in CoH when in a snowball situation. That's why one or more bring it. No self healing just punishes solo q survivors again. I honestly feel like we cop the brunt of the punishment because of swfs on comms.
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No one, especially not the Devs thinks about Solo queue when it comes to balance and perk adjustments.
I'm a "team player" in Solo Q (run BT, CoH, shadowstep sometimes) and since the SBMM encourages selfish play, and rewards escapes over everything else, I'm often left to die on my first hook as 3 people run out the door. CoH was actually helpful for Solo queue in the beginning. If they nerfed it a third time, no one would use it anymore. It would become trash and we'd all go back to the old Meta. Even now, I see CoH less and less and sometimes I think dedicating one perk slot to team health and the rest for self preservation is the way to go. In that scenario, Borrowed Time is more valuable than CoH imo.
All anyone cares about is Killer vs SWF. Because SWF is insanely strong. I commiserate with Killers, but I'm getting real tired of Solo Q being nothing but an afterthought.
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Basically the same place I am at.
I've always been in favor of killers getting stronger and I still am, but when for killers to get stronger all they do is make perks garbage for solo q and still useable to SWF I just can't agree with that.
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Sorry but that would make medkits absurdly overpowered when they're already too strong.
The perk would really benefit from a full scale rework, what that rework would be I have no clue.
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Let me start by saying im a killer main not a survivor but try to remain as unbiased in perk discussions as I can.
I agree. CoH cannot be balanced in its current state however removing the ability to self heal will destroy the perk as it to heavily relies on other players at that point.
Instead the buff from someone else healing you within CoH could be removed but increase the healing speed of CoH self heal to the same speed as someone else healing you. This would potentially make the perk stronger than it is now as it wouldnt require 2 survivors to go to the boon to get a fast heal (leaving other survivors free to do gens) but it would make the perk a bit more risky to use to counter this as if a killer finds you there is no one there to take the hit.
IMO CoH as a perk was a bad idea to begin with due to the fact that its incredibly hard to balance but having it a fast self care only perk would be on the right track.
Your suggestion of 100% healing speed AND 50% medkit effeciency is silly OP as it would result in such fast heals a killer wouldnt be able to counter it (other than breaking the totem).
One other way they could re-balance the perk is to leave the way it works the same but each time you have to boon the time it takes is increased. So for example first time is 14 seconds (28 on lit totem), second time 28 seconds (42 on lit totem) and it increase from there. Maybe a little less on the increases but u see where im going with it. It would mean that snuffing a totem has a negative effect on the survivors as it takes longer to re-set up.
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In the time it takes to find a totem and set up a boon, removing self-care from CoH would just dumpster the perk. It wouldn't be used.
Want a CoH nerf? Put boons on a timer. Have them expire after a set amount of time. 45 Seconds feels fair, if a bit generous. Killers don't have to snuff boons then, and boons retain their strength.
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The problem with CoH wasn't so much everyone can heal, because they have to run to one area to do so, which took time. The real issue is that wouldn't need to take long to heal, and stacking healing speed with other mechanics. If they just updated healing to only get a maximum 100% healing speed (so stacking healing mechanics you can't get over 100%), then CoH and any other healing perk wouldn't be a problem.
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