Make the hatch great again
I just want the hatch to what it was pre-5.3.0. Nerf survivors and buff killers. But make the hatch fun again plz
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No. Good riddance to matches ending prematurely with keys as well as getting left behind as survivor after someone else key escapes.
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Sure, you get hatches back i get mori's back?
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lmao no. Do the gens if you want an escape, or hope to find the hatch first/with a key if you’re the last one. People don’t deserve an out when they didn’t finish their job.
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Yes
Make more killers realize that tunneling is the best strat
Cuz before the strat was tunnel the guy with the key
It was really fun for the survivors right?
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This is suggesting that killers tunneled more when you brought in a key, but I haven't seen a difference in the last 2 years I've played this.
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Killers absolutely did tunnel more when keys were in play prior to 5.3.0. Now they don’t because the worst case scenario for them is it allows one survivor to escape and that’s it, so it’s no worse than if the last survivor escaped through hatch without a key.
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With the changes to how Franklin's and keys work, I don't think you would see repeat problems. Especially not when now you can just kill everyone more easily with things like healing regression (hemorrhaging)
The game is not how it once was where the hatch was the best thing ever. Now it's... blegh and has been since the change. It's not even fun to hatch escape or take a key.
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The most recent change to Franklins was implemented before the hatch nerf. Either way, it’s not hard to counter it, you just put your key on the ground somewhere so its charges can’t be drained.
I do understand that keys feel sort of useless now and they could use some kind of additional effect and/or an addon pass, but reverting the hatch nerf is not the solution.
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This needs to be brought back up. #MakeHatchesGreatAgain
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Yeah, sure. You can have pre-nerf hatch.
Keys, though, are in fact are being nerfed further to only function when all other survivors are dead if you get that change.
Sound okay? Wonderful.
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The hatch was too ahead of its time and we are no longer worthy of its greatness now. I'm still mad they pulled the achievement for everyone escaping through the hatch in a trial, even if you had previously unlocked it.
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Because they won and killer lost, that's all that matters
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No. Never again, please. I don't care if keys are situational item or "useless" for someone. I want more balanced and fair game than what hell was it before the changes.
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Now besides the fact that I think hatch works perfectly now, I don't think that buffing the hatch is a good compensation for buffing killer and nerfing survivors.
Both sides need their fair share of buffs and nerfs, this game isn't sided towards any role honestly.
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I had the idea that a key can only be used on hatch once EGC has commenced. I would have rathered that due to all the old tome challenges that I need to complete still.
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Yeah, I was never able to get the 4 man hatch escape -- and a friend and I tried for a while, but one of the other two would either die or leave. I've been on the receiving end of that one though, so I know how much it sucks, but I really wanted it. It felt like an actual challenge, considering I rarely play with a full SWF.
I do however recognize the overall health benefit to the game but... Blargh.
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Yeah... I was actually able to get it with an AFK killer, but trust me, it was difficult trying to get my team to understand what I was trying to do. I was begging them to follow me. I would place my key down and tell them come. I literally had a match where one person just didn't get it (I think it was a Meg), I was so devastated, but somehow a couple games after that the stars aligned again and I got it. It was such a great moment, but I'm glad hatch was changed, it was very cheap when a 4k was stolen from you because someone found a key.
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Despite how deceptively simple it might sound to pull off a 4-man hatch escape, it was truly a challenge, yea. I helped a bunch of my friends get it and IIRC only about 1 or 2 of those was outside of a full swf just from the effort it took. Not only having everyone alive until the hatch was confirmed to spawn but also herding the flock to it safely and stealthfully was a mission all on it's own. Though the game evolves, we will still have those kinds of memories from the early DBD experience to look back on.
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I think hatch is fine the way it is right now. They should change the function of the key, however, imo
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Hatch really shouldn’t exist at all. It does nothing other than give survivors a pity “escape”. Fifth gen pops, start the EGC collapse and call it a day. Between second chance perks and NOED, there’s already enough freebies as it is.
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As if the overwhelming majority of killers don't tunnel and slug as is? Please.
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This whole post is filled with people saying 'please take anything that could inconvenience me and make things harder out of the game' and my eyes are rolling like a slot machine. I just want to have fun with friends again.
What about hatch aura spawns with 2 survivors left and 3 gens done?
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And why shouldn't they? The only thing awaiting friendly killer like me that go out of their way to avoid those strategies is in the grand scheme indifference or the same toxic treatment.
There is a reason why not many of us are left in the game. Why try to be a saint when you already get treated like the devil.
And yes, "not every survivor does it" but so was it for non camping/tunneling killer and both sides have ruined each other over the last years.
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There's nothing fun about killers who tunnel or camp either. And 3-4 survivors NEVER left early with the old hatch. In order for all 4 survivors to leave, all 5 gens had to be done.
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Well if you're looking to make the game 'healthy' encouraging toxic play from killers doesn't justify having a nerfed hatch. I don't feel bad if you don't know how to enjoy the game with how the hatch was, but it was such a blast playing with friends. We would be cackling with laughter.
And now, it's just OK.
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Just to quote myself here, but I did finally get the chall yesterday... now that it's just escape with a key. I was happy anyway. Only 3 survivor challenges left to complete.
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Some deleted comments mentioned how toxic killer play was 'justified', but encouraging toxic play from killers because a select few players don't understand the amount enjoyment and absolutely laughter friends would have doing a group hatch is not how you keep a game running. The quickest way to end the life of a game is take it from multiplayer to solo. Discourage SWF and see how long the game continues vs if you encouraged it instead.
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This isn't much of a feat anymore. Bond, Diversion, Urban Evasion and your choice of either Left Behind or Clairvoyance will get you there often. The strategy is getting the killer to kill your teammates and then leaving out of the hatch. It has an 80-90% success rate.
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Ya, I know. I wish it was the old one, lol. But hey completionist me appreciates finally getting it ticked off.
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Killers tunnel hard regardless. There is always this thought process on the forum that killers will play nice if this gets nerfed or that gets nerfed. Then things get nerfed and killers still tunnel and camp.
Cracks me up.
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I'd be ok with old moris and hatch coming back. The "reworks" basically just killed both mechanics for the sake of competitive balance in an unbalanced rng mess of a game.
A reasonable compromise would be having hatch spawn when the gens are done. So keys aren't permanently relegated to being the worst survivor item. And killer doesn't lose while holding a 3 gen.
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The problem there is killers can hold the game hostage, and they sometimes do.
The hatch needs to return to make the game more fair.
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It does suck when you get a killer like Hag just squatting on 3 really close gens, but I consider that more of a problem with gens spawning too close together on some maps. Either way, I think hatch spawning at 1 gen would cause more problems than it would solve.
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I disagree, and we have empirical evidence to show that having the hatch spawn with the former limitations was good for the game.
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Oh, we have "empirical evidence" for that claim? Show us, please!
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No
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A killer hard camping his 3-gen is not holding the game hostage, as was clarified multple times by the mods. You still can get out of the game by just giving up and let yourself being killed. In a true hostage situation, you cannot leave the game (besided DC) until the another player allows it. And that's way more prevalent with survivors doing nothing to make the killer DC, than the killer somehow body blocking the last survivor into a corner so they cannot leave.
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It´s totally fair for survivors to use the hatch offerings, let a random teammate die and escape together at 1/2 gens left.
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Why should that be acceptable that the only option is for the survivor to walk up and asked to be killed (suicide)?
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A pretty good reason to run Pinky Finger again. Yes, I know that is nerfed but it still something, lol.
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Because there's a difference in holding a game hostage,
If you three gen yourself, you Did that, not him..
Now if he was just basically chasing people off the gens not committing to chasing and just continues to kick gens Might be considered,
But you wanna know how to counter this? Split up and have 2 on 1, then send one to the 2nd gen, and one to the third, the killer won't be able to do this, Bam,
Game not held hostage anymore,
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I mean.. that was a unhealthy thing to have,
if that's the case, then the mori would have to be reverted, and making franklin's actually make a depleted key not work anymore,
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It is not the only option. Cracking that 3-gen is another. And don't say thats impossible. I've done that with 2 other randoms against a hag. It takes time, it's not easy, but it's possible.
There a simply reason somthing like camping a 3-gen or other "unfun" tactics are not considered hostage taking or banworthy: They are to fuzzy as a metric. If we said camping a 3-gen is hostage taking, how much would a killer have to engage in a chase that will lose them the match to not commit that hostage taking? If we said camping was bannable, how long may a killer stay near a hook until its a banable offense? It's all extremely fuzzy, highly subjective, and does not help you do the right decisions (regarding bans / punishments).
What we need are clear, objective metrics that specify what allowed and what not. And regarding hostage taking, the metric is, whether a party hinders the other to play the game AT ALL, so the only way to get out of that situation is to DC or waiting to be "released". Camping a 3-gen does not fall under this metric, bc the survivors can still do things, even if its futile in the grand scheme. And like I already wrote, they CAN get out of the game without DC, simple by giving up. Whether you find that "acceptable" or not is not of any concern (again fuzzy / subjective).
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Survivors back in the day "GET MORIS OUT OF HERE! UNFAIR UNFAIR"
Survivors now : "can my 4 man swf pwease escape after one of us dies, pwease"
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I wouldn't call it a 'pity escape', but rather a fair chance for the final survivor to escape. You're essentially saying that once the hatch has been closed and if there's one survivor left, it should basically be a free 4k for the killer. I say to this:
1) a 1v1 for the exit gates is really difficult as a survivor, especially if you're against high mobility killers like Spirit or Nurse (and now Dredge), or killers who can patrol the exit gates by other means (Trapper, Demo, etc). Also, how is the final survivor supposed to even have a chance of escaping on a map like Midwich when the gates are literally a stone's throw from each other? The killer always has the upper hand when this happens, so I don't see why it's unreasonable for the survivor to be provided with an extra chance of escaping.
2) it's pretty much a 50/50 who will find the hatch first. It's not like the survivor has any competitive advantage in this context unless they're like 1 in 100000 survivors who actually run Let Behind or use Clairvoyance to track the hatch.
3) The survivor has done well to outlast all their teammates, why should they be punished just because their team wasn't able to survive and complete their objective?
As I said, the hatch exists as it is now for a reason. It was obviously put there because the devs recognize that as the last survivor, your chances of escaping through the exit gates were minimal. Plus, the hatch is perfectly balanced because the killer may find it first anyway. I also like the gameplay side of it, it's pretty fun going against the killer and trying to find the hatch first. Just to clarify, I'm only talking about the current hatch mechanics. I agree the old version where multiple survivors could escape was boring and just ridiculous that it made its way into the game.
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- hatch is not “perfectly balanced”. There are plenty of times where it appears right next to the survivor and there’s nothing that can be done about it.
- by your logic, if there are multiple survivors left at the end, killers should get a one time use version of NOED so they at least have a “chance” to get a kill. you see how this argument makes no sense? You shouldn’t just be given something just because egos can’t handle holding the L. You get second chances all game as it is. Hatch exists purely for survivors to feel like they didn’t lose lol.
- the only time hatch should spawn is if all 5 generators are done. Again there is no reason you should get an easy escape when you haven’t even finished your objective. Killers always have to hook/mori/run out the EGC clock, in order to win. Why do survivors need a way to escape without finishing their objective other than being given pity escapes to feel better?
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Hatch is fine how it is. Only one person can get it. They cannot instantly open it with a key. The killer can close it.
The old hatch system was awful.
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I believe the only change they should make to Hatch is it should spawn after all 5 gens are powered too, by that time the Survivors have already won almost always and it really doesnt make much difference the time it takes to find it and opening it than opening the Exit Gates, mainly because it would make Hatch challenges much easier.
Other than that, its there to be a game ending device not to make grand escapees at the expenses of letting 1 or 2 die while you burn a "make Hatch appear on Killer Shack" offering, so its fine the way it is now.
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Tunneling was worse for the Key bearer pre hatch fix because Killers didn't want to have the match end early. After Boons tunneling in general became worse.
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