An Idea to decrease the frustration of playing against Swf.
When you play against an swf, the next 2-3 matches will be played against solo players.
Comments
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Why, what specific advantages do swf have?
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There's plenty, but communication is the huge one
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In response to OP, the only idea needed to decrease frustration is to realize that most SWF are not the toxic bully squads the forums would have you believe they are and they are just as good/bad (and sometimes worse) as the rest of the player base
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Lmao are you kidding me? Comms, sabo, spreading out on gens because of comms, body blocking, synergizing perks with the whole team.
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Maybe, but most players seem to support the idea of giving solo survivors the ability to communicate though in game macros.
I'm being chased, going for saves, ect. If communicaiton was so important why does nobody feel like these would be a massive advantage. I have seen swf and usually, little communication is needed. So I don't feel like SWF gives the massive advantage everyone says it does.
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you must be new here or play at a low level. There is a mile difference between a solo team and a swf. They will always know where the killer is if 1 person sees them. They can coordinate what gens to do so that they can split up a 3 gen. They can synergize 16 perks to all work together. coordinate risky saves. They can spoil any suprise element the killer brings so that it only works on one of them once. aka spirit fury enduring, low pro chains.
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Yeah... no. The real and only consistent benefit of SWF is good teammates. Whenever killers say "communication" and then complain when single survivor loops them very well, shows how the importance of individual competence is really what maters. Communication has merit but its not really all that impactful. Which why I said if they were too add callouts for survivor, that would allow for the same information that swf has right. Well not exactly because information if secondary to the only thing that really matters "personal skill". So when killers say they don't like SWF, what they really take issue with is survivors of equal skill.
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Do you enjoy gaslighting people? You offered no good arguments against any of mine. Most of the topics i listed completely eliminate whole categories of perks that solo q uses.
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OK
- They will always know where the killer is if 1 person sees them. Yes and no. It depends on the killer, map perks available ect. Lets give it the absolute worst scenario, a deathslinger on say coldwind farm. He's slow with cornn blocking his vison giving survivors the edge as you say. Well As the match progress, the distance he needs to cover gets shorter and shorter. Callouts don't really matter if he's remaining on one site of the map. because the distance tis too small for to have a real impact, especial on generators that are placed in dead zones. The killer is either going to be near enough for you too see him or close enough that a callout won't matter.
- They can coordinate what gens to do so that they can split up a 3 gen. Isn't that what corupt was designed to do? How can survivors split a 3 gen when all the gens on one side are blocked? If they are wasting time waiting for the corupt to wear too avoid the 3 gen then they are giving you time you need to apply pressure. Even if you don't have corupt relying on 3 gens is a really poor way to play. If your fall back if you pick one side of the map and designate as (your area) then the survivors will simply remain in the other area whenever they need to be healed. Also here the thing, its not difficult to figure out what side of the maps generators have been done. Most gen spots are predetermined, and while they rotate placements, you won't find one anywhere. If survivors big advantage is gen placement then I will give that up, any day of the week for basekit BT.
- They can synergize 16 perks to all work together. Completely wrong. Come one lets be serious here. In theory yes you could build some interesting combinations for some really strong fun builds. But any build you can think of is inherently inferior to BT/DS?DH and COH. (COH is its own problem). The point is these perk synergies will always be inferior to the basekit meta. As a killer I would love to see 4 man perk combos, because it would be far more interesting to go against that then another round of meta. I can work around a sabo build, a flashlight build. Windows of opportunity with open handed ect. But they never do, and regardless of SWF or solo, they will always be the strongest build.
- coordinate risky saves. I'm not even going to challenge you on that. Let's say you are completely right. Wow what an amazing advantage they can counter camping, how gamebreaking. Have to nerf SWF, because killers want to be able stand in front of a hook and get kills.
- They can spoil any surprise element the killer brings so that it only works on one of them once. aka spirit fury enduring, low pro chains. Again it depends so much. Like spirit fury enduring, sure I would agree too that. But lo pro chains? If you are surprising more then 2 survivors with that, then the survivors are not very observant. Surprise abilities only work once per survivor and any competent survivor should be able to figure out what the killer is running fairly quickly.
Here is the big problem, everything you said is easier with SWF. However almost everything you said can be achieved through solo q, if players were willing to put in the effort. Of course its easier to do things with discord ect, however there is no reason it cannot be done in solo q. So why is it rarely done? Because the real and only strong benefit of SWF is guaranteed competent teammates.
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- callouts 100% matter. They know where the threat is and when it is coming. They will know which gens are safe and risky to do. You do not have this in solo q. Baring bringing perks. This works in conjunction with 3. So if they know where the killer is they know which gens are safe to work on, and if theres a possibility of a bad 3 gen the person being chased can lead them to a part of the map that will let the team prioritize that gen.
- I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that locking down a 3 gen is a bad tactic. Its invaluable if the team is slamming gens. It is always a constant to keep in the back of your head while playing. A 3 gen strat is a powerful position for a killer to be in since they will always be in the area to lock it down and pressure it. So in order play into this you lead your chases back to that area, hook in that area, and use your gen def perks on those gens. corrupt is only an early game solution to trying to lock down a 3 gen. Thats a bad point considering breaking up a 3 gen will be done later in the game not near the start. Also for this theres another argument favoring swf over solo q. Heals can be coordinated away from the 3 gen and with COH in play they dont even need 2 people to heal. So chasing the survivor back to the boon will let the rest of the team finish a gen and staying at your 3 gen to defend after a hit will let that survrior heal up by themselves and get back in to finish the gen. Rinse and repeat until the gen is done. All coordinated by a team most efficently through coms. They will all be aware of which gen has what progress on it and when to greed and stack a gen to finish it. Which in solo q you have to roam to figure it out or call out where the totems on and the team can decide with each other where the best placement for that totem can be. This isnt even taking into account that a swf on coms will prevent the solo q survivor breaking totems so that the one bringing the boon cant place it when they need it in that scenario.
- This is a constant talking point with good teams as they will have designated builds to do specific roles in the group. This prevents builds that clash with one another. In fact the only time you face a competent sabo, anti slug, or protection hit squads is done through communicating who has what perk. Which is not possible to reach worth while efficiency if only 1 person is doing these things. Once again coms are the only way to coordinate these things. However the worst of this is exactly what you were kind of trying to say with the meta perks. They will have designated booners savers runners and gen jockeys. Also being in a swf with coms will open up perk slots since they have no need for information perks. Which those slots will be filled with stronger perks. I myself playing solo q usually run at least 1 info perk like kindred to give me an idea of what my team is doing.
- yes because the killer isnt allowed to secure a kill in the endgame. Your bias is showing hard here.
- i only mentioned 2 on this category there are so many more things that hurts killer here. A callout on their perks so they have premeditated responses to the killers build. A good player will slowly learn these things over the corse of the match, but a swf will learn it faster through coms. Lo pro chains are so good that its ran as one of the better hillbilly add ons during tournaments. Its better then you apparently know. Them not knowing, outside of being hit, there is still a chance that they eat a hit the killer wouldnt have normally gotten. If i know that the billy is running lo pro chains i know now which mindgames that i should be favoring against him.
i dont think any of your arguments do anything but prove my point that coms give a huge advantage to a swf regardless of skill level. No matter the skill level it will still elevate those survivors past their capabilities in solo q through the info gained by coms.
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My honest opinion: DBD already has MMR, now devs need to enable a separate competitive mode that in the high MMR elo, limit the formation of squads/Trio, only Duos are allowed in Queue with similar MMR spectrum, and then killers will no longer see a rate of absurd coordination, giving the same treatment that games give to their pvp group players, like OW/Paladins, which makes it much more urgent here, since it's an asymmetrical game. Then Devs no longer have to think about balancing around SWF, and things can now finally be adjusted for SoloQ
Ps: Changes need to be done well, like modify lobby chat, disabling it for survivors, as well as their profile on steam (avoid sharing the link to external channels with communication). Leaving the match lobby, both for killer and for survivor, would immediately activate the DC penalty (to avoid people leaving and returning until they matched together as a squad or killer avoinding specific players.
Post edited by randonly on1 -
I think your first point has some merit and would be interesting. Rather than trying to band aid buff solo survivor which just unbalances things more, tweak down the options available for SWF in regular play mode. Give full advantage to a competitive mode, I think competitive queue times would be huge though. You'd need some much larger reward for a comp queue or some kind of in game recognition for ego boosting bragging rights. It's kinda unhealthy game wise but often what comp player's crave.
You second point is a bit harsh. DC penalty for lobby dodging. If the MMR didn't throw less experienced players under the bus in the name of back filling sure but I know plenty of people who dodge the first lobby of the day simply because its usually already full and ready waiting with a grossly mismatched game. A ban for walking out on a game sure, a ban for walking out on a lobby ehhh bit much.
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- To avoid survivors/killers dropping their MMR on purpose, incentives (rewards) for those who reach the "master" elo should be given (2 elos before, the limitation on group formation by survivors must already be activated, since "master" would be the last elo). The reward would work both (killer/survivor) to create a competitive queue stimulus and to limit unwanted behavior.
- The ranked mode would be more than just limiting groups or serving only to inflate egos, but to create healthier matches for both sides. if BHVR does a good job, ranked seasons may have map rotation (disabled by default), changes in map structures, as well as seasons that have perks disabled by default for both sides. A system for banning perks and maps by players can also be welcome. A way for always changing the meta at high MMR induced by BHVR.
ps: Other game-design improvements posteriorly should be reviewed, such as mandatory objectives more than just generators by survivors, as well as second chance mechanics (hook/basement/ECG -Doors/Hatch) Example: automatic respawn system after some time on the ground, avoinding slug/camp and same time killer doesn't wastes time with hooking or with flashlight saves), which implies several perks that use these systems being reworked.
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Just so we're clear on something. I never said SWF ahs no benefits. It does, no different then any online game. I always said it is not as significant as people say it is.
- There is no argument here as to why a survivor cannot learn this information himself. All the examples you gave are things any player can learn for himself. Do you learn it faster as SWF, obviously but there is no reason why you as a player cannot figure out which generators are good or bad without a friend telling you. Where the killer is will always be the go to example, but here is my question, if knowing where the killer is, gives such as major advantage as you say, then why is the first case against swf always the hardest? If knowing where the location of the killer gives the advantage you say, then in theory the first chase that starts off with nobody knowing where he is should be the easiest. Yet we constantly see the opposite. The obvious answer is individual skill is far more advantageous then any communication you can give out. But I'm sure this will be ignored. As for leading the killer, come on that's basic DBD skill. IF you need swf to avoid generators then you need more practice. is that your plan to force it form the start. This is why you are clearly inexperienced at killer.
x is generators o is pallets.
Your plan is to force a 3 gen. Now the chance of all survivors spawning on one side of the map is extremely low. So they will figure out where the gens are fairly fast even if it is in solo Q. So to force a 3 gen you need to remain on the bottom half of the map. By constantly defending those same 3 generators, the only way to do is to abandon chases that go above the safe line. If you try to force the 3 gen artificially you rill create this. When playing killer you want to be able to force the survivors into situations where they have nothing to defend themselves. What killers create however when this is not done properly is match that looks like this. Yes lets say you manage 3 gen, lets say you do even better and create a 4 gen, you leave the survivors in a position where all the resources sit on the unfinished gens. So any time a survivor attempts to do a gen they have two choices, loop you at one of the unused pallets or fall back to the safe zone. Survivors can take as many attempts at gens as they want, and can keep falling back. It does not take a swf to do this. You yourself created this entire situation. Now of course you have less ground to cover, but 3 gens have a simple counter. The only time they fail is when survivors get hit and instead of going back, they go forward into your zone for you to capitalize on this. In this situation you are not versing good survivors. Do SWF make it easier? Sure, but its hardly something that SWF can exclusively do.
3 Designated builds is an extremely rare thing, and something I encourage. As I said any team with players running non meta, in mind are fantastic. Players with distinct roles, let's say sabtour can be dealt with because they are forced to give up meta perks to fill a role that may not even occur. The point is your idea of designated roles is so extremely rare, I wonder what game you are actually playing? Who is reasonably giving up iron will or ds or BT or spine chill to run open handed windows? Or sabatour. On the other side lets say your right. So... your reason for why SWF is is frustrating is perks combos that literally do not work without coms can now potentially work. That's the big advantage of SWF... the game actually working. Yeah... you definitely don't have bias.
4 The fact that I never mentioned the circumstances of camping, and yet you went to the situation that makes killers look the most favourable as possible so that you can pretend that your not bias is extremely blatant. What if I was talking about a killer that camps at 5 generators. Or a killer that camps at 3 generators. You don't know because you jumped to a conclusion and created the weakest argument possible. Guess what I have no issue camping at endgame. I recognise that with no objective for the killer to go to it would make sense for them to defend the hook, especially if no survivors were dead at this point. You clearly have bias and your lack of awareness is astonishing. But fine, lets say you are right, again so the big advantage of swf is to counter camping/tunnelling... and you object to this? Have to nerf SWF, because might be able to get the rescue. Yeah... no bias here.
5 Again, this what separates a good and bad survivors. Bad survivors require a killer to demonstrate directly in front of them what they are running or need teammates to as you say give callouts. A good survivor however know what a killer is potentially and likely to be running and is aware before the addon is even active. Your example of lo pro chains is a possibility on all Hillbily's. As a survivor you should be are of this from the beginning and on guard before he even broke the pallet. By your logic going up against SWF should result in the first member of the SWF getting hit by it or at least very likely and yet they are rarely are compared to solo q. The reason is because most SWF are good players or at least far more likely, on an individual skill level. They can predict individually what is likely to happen before it does and avoid. Obviously you learn things faster, however if this is what separates SWF from others, then players would simply play killers that ignore this (Nurse) yet nurse struggles just as much, because the players are individually all skilled.
Your argument is communication is what gives SWF the edge, and yet communication is not meta, because while communication does have its merits, it is far less then to the already base meta that offers none of this. By stripping communication away they should be significantly weaker right? Well no, because even without communication they are far stronger then solo Q because their individually skilled. Killers want to say (I only lost due to communication) So they can simply ignore any loss they have as (unwinnable).
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Again I agree, I should clarify that I realise comp mode incentives would do more than just inflate egos, I'm just a pretty casual player with a deep seeded hatred of playing online, often its an un-necessarily negative experience. The egotism of pvp or mmo's is kinda inevitable so it was a lil jab at it nothing more.
Definitely a comp season might promote healthier game experience than just everyone grinding through the same rift all together. It probably won't fix a lot of the ingrained game problems such as people de-ranking to get easier opponents though but at least it could set some expectations game wise for the more serious players.
Personally all the problems in game would be solved for me if they implemented a custom offline mode against bots. I could play however I wanted and no ones feelings would get hurt and I wouldn't care. I don't really care now but that's more about having realistic expectations from game experience than any real maliciousness.
I'm torn on any kind of respawn scenario because the high threat/stakes elimination gameplay really makes DBD true to theme. There is no respawn death is not an escape, Its one thing I really like about it. On the other hand people get really pissy when they are eliminated something I've never understood as its a rather zero sum elimination game by default.
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None of this disproves that coms gives a heavy advantage. You are only stating that better players will play better. Which is obvious and im not disputing. You are try to use it as a strawman for some reason. I'll bring most of these in to a different light so you can understand it better. The currency in this game is time spent in the match. Which the killers time is 4x as valuable since there are 4 survivors. So anytime spent doing something other then gens is invaluable for balance. This is about time here not player skill in both scenarios swf on coms and solo q of equal skill. coms win matches because of everything I stated.
- This is about time here not player skill. Skill has nothing to do with gaining information. you still have to traverse the map or have eyes on each gen or the killer. You spend time doing this, swf on comes does not, or at the very least way less time. Once again back to the time currency thing. Assuming that the survivors are all efficient on gens, them gaining the info needed during the match will be time not on gens. More likely then not they wont all be skilled or have other motives then what a coordinated swf would the swf still haveing lower skill and all. They could be prioritizing a challenge or greeding things that other team members could do or get easier. Like saves, the call that you are going for the save or if you are being chased saves the team on hook states or time on gens. One example is in solo q if more then one player hops off a gen they are both going for the save 2 people not on gens when only one was needed. So the one that didnt get the save will run until the unhook happens or sees the other player. Another is that they prioritize gens, no one goes for the save in time and the survivor on hook gets to second stage. All of which can be done more efficiently with coms. This gives you zero perspective at my skill level as killer. Stop acting like you know how good i am and keep to the arguments. Maybe if you did that you'll bring better ones.
- Once again you basically agreed with me that a swf on coms breaks up a 3 gen better. It is an indisputable fact that holding down a 3 gen wins games for killers. When if they were split its an automatic loss. A 2 gen 2 gen split is almost always a loss against a good team who slammed gens. Where as a locked down 3 gen can spin into the favor of the killer. You act like holding down a 3 gen requires you to just be there and not go anywhere else in the match. I decide when i need a 3 gen but i will always take note of where they are that way i can shift my tactic. Once again a swf on coms wins more times then a solo q in this situations because they know what gens to pressure and when faster. Time is currency. You offered no good counter arguments to this.
- Very rare or not my argument still stands and I already said that meta team is worse then this. You didnt counter my argument about them being able to not use a bunch of perks to make way for the meta ones. My argument is coms make this much more doable because they can coordinate it. Not that its rare or not. That its a thing period. It proves how powerful a swf with coms can be. You have no arguments here and you are still trying to gaslight me. You do not get to claim to know my experience with this game or my bias. The only thing that I let you in on in the previous comment is I play solo q. I show no bias and I'm only stating facts which you cant even counter properly. So my bias is showing? For what solo q? You're just butthurt that I'm making better arguments and cant counter them. Thats why in every section instead of bringing any good arguments you take tiny jabs, with no evidence to give them any kind of weight.
- You are still going on about bias's as if it matters in a well made argument. I favor no side here, I want balance for solo q and killer. Swf breaks this. Camping tunneling and slugging are valid tactics and the killer doesnt have to abide your imaginary rules. So yes back to your previous statement. You are giving me that coms make this easier then solo q. Once again you offer no arguments here. I dont like when killers are doing these tactics early in the match it makes it miserable for the survivors but its still a valid tactic. I think something should be done about camping and tunneling at 5-3 gens, but swf is a much bigger issue that throws a wrench in balance. Once thats sorted, sure implement a mechanic so that it is not as favorable to do for the killer. As for right now the killer has no idea what the team is. SWF or solo q, good or bad, So for a killer to do these thing because if they play "nice" swf will punish it. Swf exclusively creates this scenarios outside of killers who would do this anyways. Which not knowing if its a swf or not will make some killers play more scummy, and the ones who feel this the most are solo q. So inadvertently the swf is hurting solo q here too.
- In a high level game where a killer mistake can cost you the game. Getting that one hit you wouldnt normally get can be a deciding factor in a match. This by itself tells me a. you are survivor main or b. do not play high level killer. A good player still does not have the ability to prep for every tactic in chase. The reason why lo pro are brought up is because you treat billy differently at a pallet based on whether or not they have it. Which will either grant a hit or down or take it away. Once again time is currency for the killer especially against good teams swf or not, and swf have that advantage in chase faster in the match. So why at top level do you see mainly Nurse and Blight? You still havent disproven this. It still stands as an argument that coms completely change the game in the favor of the swf regardless of skill.
You still havent disproven any of my arguments and all of my points small or big are indeed advantages that coms give and theres a lot. In a game where at high level one mistake by the killer can cost you the game. You take all that efficency that coms give and you are acting like it isnt enough to sway games. You are either doing this because you arnt experienced enough at the game or for malicious/selfish reasons. If you are Malicious, you are gaslighting people and are taking little jabs at me now. You dont want your edge taken away from you because when you arn't playing with other players you cant a. bully people. or b. win reliably. You are butthurt because I called you out on your bias and just trying to throw it back at me with no merit. When in fact I've said nothing but facts that you still havent countered in any way. I've said nothing that favors either side in any particular way. In fact its solo q thats hurt most by this. Not killer.
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Yes it does. My point has been from the beginning that SWF does not offer the advantage that everybody wants it too, so they can justify their losses. You are clearly a low skilled buthurt killer that wants to throw all of the blame on his loss on SWF. The fact is, there is now way to figure out how many SWF you face every game. Yet anytime a killer goes up against an efficient team it's just (SWF) dang communication, because its an easy excuse. You want to remove the individual skill of each player so you can find something to blame your losses. "If only they didn't have communication, then I would have won for sure." I never said communication doesn't offer an advantage because it does in literally every online game, however in DBD it matters far less, because of how DBD is less a teamwork based game and more an individual based game. The fact is you have no idea what goes on SWF, and I find it sad when killers like yourself throw a tantrum because me and my friend want to play DBD together. We just want to chat about week while play some game in the background. YOU ARE NOT VERSING ELITE SURVVIORS. Everybody wants all SWF to be some pro team with callouts but most players just want to chill and have fun. The few that are the "Elite teams" are so skilled they don't need the callouts because all the information is accessible to those who pay attention. Guess what I can figure out what addons a killer is running without my friend telling me, its called "experience."
Your arguments are so weak, your first point is basically "Callouts are unfair" completely ignoring that the initial post I made I outlined that most killers have no issue is solo q getting in game macros for the same thing. So not really an advantage.
Your second is 3 gen "you agreed with me that swf makes it easier to break 3 gens." Yes.... I never said it didn't. What I said from the beginning is that experienced survivors don't need it, I can figure out where the gens are without my SWF, it's called learning the game. Maybe your new to this concept? So not a real advantage. Also your lack of understanding of why 3 gen strategy falls apart against skilled survivors, is really telling of yourself.
Your third "SWF can pull off sabo strategy." THAT'S YOUR ARGUEMENT. That is the big issue with SWF, that they can pull of a sabo strategy? You really base your entire mindset off survivors always running the same perks don't you? Killers always say "another 4 man meta perks" you would think that if SWF allows you to run weaker but different builds you would rejoice. YES FINNALY SWF, because there is at least a chance they might run something weaker and more interesting. Survivor run meta, killer unhappy, survivor run non meta, killer unhappy. Your bias is so blatant is suffocating. You will never be happy unless survivors are perk less and run at 10% movement speed.
Your 4th is just disgusting. Killer's can do whatever they want, no matter how strong, how abusive, how unfun and how toxic. Because it's their objective. But when survivors respond in kind you just about cry. That comes from your own words "You are still going on about bias's as if it matters in a well made argument. I value fun more then anything else, and I want that for survivors and killers. You on the other hand could not care less unless you have your easy victory. By your own words you consider SWF a bigger issue then camping and tunnelling. Not allowing players to play the game is less important then people playing really well. You have such a toxic mindset and could not care less about fun.
And lastly your point about robbing some hit or something, which you have no idea if t hat's the case. You don't know what they were running half the time, you have no idea what they saw, or how observant they are. But you tell yourself this to inflate your ego. I would have gotten that hit, if they didn't tell their teammate I had lo pro chains. Except they watched you break pallet a long time ago and is in solo Q. But you want to tell yourself this so you can tell yourself you are better then you actual are.
My initial post was asking for specific examples on what benefits players have other then the vague fallback point of "Communication." When I point out I don't need SWF for that, you say "but its easier with SWF, I say yes... but I don't need it. All that means is your going against survivors that need SWF to play then you are versing bad survivors and if you can't deal with this, then you are not as good as killer as you think you are. You want to impact on SWF because they are good, so that you can artificially feel like your better then you are. Whether SWF or solo, if you cannot learn to deal with this level of skill, that's fine, but that does not mean the entire game needs to be lowered to your level.
You do not need to respond. You clearly have this entitled mindset, and want to surrounded by a bunch of equally unskilled players telling each other how hard it is. If SWF was gone, you would complain about shack or main building ect. You are here to be validated, not make an argument. This conversation is dead.
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Get over it, maybe? The progress towards better balance is making all players have SWF level information and ability to communicate (ping wheel or whatever), and rebalancing around that.
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Worst type of swf defender. Gaslighting people by trying to act like you know anything about how good i am at the game. The argument is dead because have none outside of “lol you’re bad.” Im an “entitled bad killer” yet the last thing i said is that the people this hurts the most is solo q. Which you most likely didnt even read. They are already hinting at doing something about swf. Either raising solo q up and killers up to handle swf. Or a flat nerf to swf. Cant wait until they do some changes to your crutch so we can hear you cry more about it.
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Wh- what even is this thread?
The original suggestion:
Was an honest enough one. Play against SWF and the SBMM system guarantees a match or a few without pre-mades.
However, here we are - the comments are lit up with people arguing if SWF are even more potent than solo.
It's like watching people debate that water is wet, or that the sky is blue. There's really nothing to argue, let's just give HelloDarkness the credit he deserves for such a simple idea and talk about THAT please.
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Ikr, ppl still arguing if swf gives them and advantage or not, while completely ignoring my suggestion.
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While I think the entire SBMM system needs to be overhauled to avoid the SWF issue... I think that your suggestion is a very eloquent way of balancing the tables in the meantime :)
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sorry people like that get under my skin. Had to stand up to it. I think your idea would be ok for some, but you'll have the majority just figure out the formula and skip the swf game.
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DAMN yall starting to write books in here LMAO
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