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Make an anti-exhaustion killer perk
Since it's a known fact that the devs will never touch Dead Hard, because it's the favorite get out of jail free card for almost every survivor, and nerfing it could mean nobody would buy those Feng skins. Why not ATLEAST make a perk for killers that causes the exhausted status effect on the survivor for a considerable amount of time, that may actually help in chases? A perk like that would become a killer meta over night cuz that's how much of a problem Dead Hard is. It could also indirectly reduce gen speeds, since no dead hards = faster downs = more map pressure. Just do something about this press E to outplay thing, cuz it's not fun mindgaming a survivor but then saying to yourself "it doesn't matter dead hard will save him/her".
Comments
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Underrated perk IMO, and very useful on killers like Freddy, Artist, Sadako, Billy- basically anyone who can quickly move around the map.
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Let me rephrase this, "Please make an anti-exhaustion killer perk that doesn't suck"
We have anti-exhaustion perks, they're just all terrible.
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No second chances:
Upon hitting a Survivor with your Weapon, you apply the exhausted Status effect for 5/7/10 seconds.
like that ?
Im gonna be honest, if a Perk needs to be made to counter another Perk, then the Perk itself is badly designed. But who am i talking to. I think everyone knows how annoying Dead Hard is. We've seen it a Million times on the Forums already.
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Why do you think most exhaustion addon got removed?
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Blood Echo and Mindbreaker. If you know how to keep people injured, I can guess you probably won't see any Exhaustion Perks being used. Something that I don't think some people know is that Mindbreaker pauses Exhaustion time while working on a generator.
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Or what if, bhvr instead of adding bandaid perks fixed those perks that have issues?
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thats what im talking about. I dont want DH nerfed into the ground. Just tweaked a bit.
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I wish it was something like either iframes or distance, not both.
A minor tweak not a massive nerf.
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I've got a few random ideas
One thing would be either changing an existing perk or making a new one that inflicts exhausted to survivors who take protection hits. This punishes altruistic survivors and makes them an easier target for you to switch to at the same time
I don't know if this would be good something like Forced Penance because I think some ppl really dig the broken status effect but yeah I think it would be really good for m1 killers who struggle with survivors who are smart and take hits
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👏👏👏
Thank you. We shouldn’t make a perk just counter another cheap meta perk fighting fire with fire doesn’t help. To fix it they need to change the perk
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I dunno, most M1 killers have fine ways to deal with DH.
All stealth killers can use mindbreaker very effectively, since they can start chases right at the generators.
Legion can use blood echo since he injures everyone for free anyways.
Myers is just 1 shotting people. Ghostface has straight up exhaust addons now, and he is 1 shotting people.
Pig has exhaust helmets. Trapper...well he should be getting downs with traps in theory then camping the hook.
Clown's slowdown can negate DH for distance a lot of the time.
I think the only one who really gets screwed by it would be doc. The rest have a pretty good answer, it's just if the killer players can tear themselves away from 4 slowdowns and use a different perk instead of whining about exhaustion lol
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I think the people who primarily play M1 killers (Like myself) would highly disagree with you that they can "just deal with" DH. DH hurts m1 killers the most out of any type of killer in the game
And you talk about 4 slowdown perks but you gotta remember 4 slowdown perks on an m1 killer is not the same as 4 slowdown perks on Nurse or Blight. You can run 4 gen defense related perks on Trapper and get stomped pretty easily
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The perks, killers, addons, and playstyles needed to counter DH are already in the game. Whether or not you choose to utilize them is up to you. Some day people will stop complaining and think, hmmm, maybe cutting a chase 30-40 seconds shorter because I used mindbreaker is an option instead of scourge hook pain res + DMS?
But knowing these forums, that day will never come. It is easier to stack meta perks and complain instead of thinking for themselves.
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That's just not true though, I'm sorry to say
Mindbreaker's exhaustion can be walked off in the middle of a chase very easily. Especially, once again against M1 killers.
All a survivor has to do is go around a corner or drop a pallet and there you go - their third health state is back. Hell I could make the argument it helps people using Sprint Burst more than it actually hinders them.
All exhaustion related addons have been nerfed, too - a change which while I agree with, limits options.
My opinion: Dead Hard is the problem, not exhaustion perks. Getting hit with a Lithe or a Balanced landing doesn't feel anywhere close to the level of cheap as DH does and I'm someone who thinks Dead Hard is borderline required against certain killers due to how oppressive their powers are.
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The blindness on gens is pretty brutal
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I don't know which M1 killers you are playing but it's not something that bothers me anymore. Clown it barely impacts half the time, especially since they are slowed enough they can dead hard your swing and it actually will still hit them.
I also don't know what you are doing in a chase but a survivor should never have time to walk for 5 seconds. Period. They throw pallets, vault windows, or die when I am chasing people.
Last time I played Wraith I was cheesing with mindbreaker and blood favor and was collecting totally free downs at generators until BF got cleansed.
I have so many exhaust addons on ghostface I will probably never see a DH again on him.
I play lots of Bubba and survivors using DH is actually a buff since they just get chainsawed at full health instead of having an actual useful exhaustion perk.
And finally, I play lots of Blight and he doesn't care 1 bit about DH. I would argue you need it to even have a prayer against him at some loops.
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It is very easy to stand still for small periods of time during chase, I do it all the time. Period. (I guess?)
You can wait at the corners of structures to see which direction the killer is approaching from (Example: Killer shack), you can stand still at certain spots in basic tiles (Example: You can wait at the pallet in Jungle Gyms) or you can wait in locations that have vaults the killer has to take to keep following (Example: The dropdown in Meat plant)
Standing still and waiting is a tactic very strong survivors will use as a countermeasure to killer movements. Some survivors just keep moving and never stop and that's how they either get mindgamed or get cutoff by good killer pathing.
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As neat as that sounds; 10 seconds is too short; when a Survivor gets hit; they get a 3 seconds speed boost that literally it gives them 20 seconds of distance away from the killer by running in a straight line. (Holding W Meta)
If you want to make that Perk oppressive, remove the 3 seconds speed boost upon hit and apply the 10 second (I would nerf it to 5 or 7.5), and now it would be strong and probably dislike by Survivors (unless they love the challenge and they think they can juke the killer until exhaustion timer reset)
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I agree with you that Dead Hard is the only actually problematic exhaustion perk. Not that Sprint Burst and Lithe and such are bad, they're good perks, but Dead Hard is really two very good effects that could each be their own perk bundled into one mega perk. The distance effect alone is so strong many people post that that's the main reason they use it in the first place, but then on top of that it has that great extra benefit of being able to dodge attacks in case of emergency solely based on animations. Moreover the stats seem to indicate Dead Hard is not just the most popular survivor perk (almost half of survivors use it) but also there's seemingly a stronger correlation between Dead Hard and escapes than other popular meta perks too. Even the devs commented relatively recently that they weren't happy with Dead Hard's numbers after reviewing how it's functioning since hit validation went into effect, and it's pretty unusual for them to negatively comment on specific perks unless they're already seriously considering adjusting them.
That said, though, Exhaustion as an effect is obviously pretty handy since, regardless of Dead Hard, it can prevent any other Exhaustion perk from being used too. It would be nice to have at least one other perk that causes it than the two that currently exist, if only for variety sake. (And I might be wrong but Blood Echo definitely seems like it's on the weak side, at least on most killers.)
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Completely agree with everything you've said
I just worry that people who want more anti-exhaustion stuff forget that it would also effect people using perks like Lithe and such. Also Blood Echo might be a bit more bearable since the hemmorage buff, I've not had the chance to test it yet
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Blood eco
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Survivors should not be standing around idle during a chase I am sorry. Maybe for a second or two to check a corner and that is it. Any more and that is on you as the killer, even as an M1 killer.
If they throw a pallet, and are walking around to get the perk back while you kick it, any distance they would have gained just going to the next tile is negated
Maybe it's because I run bamboozle on my M1 killers. There is no messing around or mindgaming for 10 years or anything like that. It's throw the pallet or die.
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It's not a debate whether they should or shouldn't. It happens, good players do it and I'm not saying I'm good but I do it because I know a lot of the killers I go against don't just follow me in a straight line they shake up their movement. Be it with mindgames, moonwalks or other tactics that I try to look out for.
Here's a classic example:
You're chasing at shack
Survivor is going for the window, so you decide to go to where they would be after they vault but they don't - they stand still and watch you and either don't vault or fast vault last second.
Stuff like that adds up.
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And don't forget the newly buffed Legion, maybe they'll get some extra bang for their buck out of Blood Echo? 🤷♂️
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Your perk doesn't scale evenly. I knew while we were on that call you were just trying to find ways to ruin me inside 😔💅
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Blood Echo and Fearmonger are really not bad.
If you go Blood Echo, Fearmonger, SH: Gift Of Pain, and Hex: Plaything - I think you will be able to keep survivors exhausted and injured for long stretches of time and follow up on powerful ambushes as the game draws long and survivors fumble to use their most powerful perks as you gain purchase against their momentum.
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Its weird, Exhaustion perks are "optional" to use. Killers who use Anti-exhaustion perks already risking a waste of perk slot if no survivor use Exhaustion. I dont know why those perk are so weak.
Fearmonger should increase to at least 10sec.
Bloodecho should work to all other survivors, not injured.
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Clown and Huntress released when exhaustion recovered while running at half speed. So 40 seconds of exhaustion wasn't actually overkill. Especially considering the pallet counts and ease of chaining together double window jungle gyms into main buildings or cow tree (a lot less maps back then)
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Let's be real here. The only exhaustion perk that is easily accessible, works on every map, has iframes and server validation, and requires a specific survivor health state is Dead Hard. It takes a great survivor to make Sprint Burst better than Dead Hard and the other ones are map dependent.
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The best solution is to become a Billy main to avoid dead hard. Also, blood echoes isn't that bad. The best survivors don't heal all the time so it will keep proccing if the match is that stacked against you.
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If Fearmonger was 15 seconds and Bloodecho simply had no cooldown I would call them decent.
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No anti-exhaustion perk will ever matter as long as it lasts less than 10 seconds.
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Having to bring perks to counter other perks isn't really good design, and isn't much different to telling survivors pre-nerf spirit was fine and all you need to do is run iron will every match. And run several anti-totem perks in case of noed.
Perks aren't a good solution to imbalance.
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Stridor countered Iron Will that's why Spirit was OP
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Remove Iframes, makes it so it cant eat killers powers.
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I actually quite like Mindbreaker.
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Blood echo'
mindbreaker
certain addons
Killers have tools to counter anything in DBD.
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Killers said Devs would never touch decisive strike as well but here we are
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