Legion needs to be changed (from a Legion main)
After buff Legion makes games miserable and it is showing a similar level of frustration of the original Legion (first version).
This is coming from a REAL legion main (see all my posting history about legion).
It is a continuous flow of mending after mending after mending.
It is not DBD, it is just a mending simulator.
The new speed feels great when you use Legion but from the survivor perspective is just a faster and faster freight train coming for you and there is not much you can do about it.
Is this Legion unbeatable or even OP? certainly not unbeatable and perhaps not even op (some add-ons are) but it opens once again the door to the same issues of OG legion.
You can beat them slamming gens and escaping but it is a miserable experience.
Please keep the music but change Legion's power. It is not possible to balance this mess, it is either too weak, too strong or too frustrating
Comments
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Thing is, adaptation is a thing that usually needs to occur when playing against different Killers. Deathslinger has deep wounds built into his gun but it’s purely an additional thing that just helps waste a little survivor time if you let them go or lose them on purpose.
Legions entire power is deep wounds, that’s why it’s so prevalent. It’s a time wasting mechanic for a Killer that can mostly only M1 for downs unless they are lucky enough (or use certain add-ons) to get 5 stabs.
You do not heal against Legion, period. You ONLY heal if you have fast healing items that make it worth it. You split up as far as possible and deny as many chains as you can, therefore cutting down mending time.
Legion has counter play, it’s just harder than it was before because Legion now actually has the opportunity to get consistent chain hits.
Against Legion, mending essentially is healing, it’s just shorter and in more frequent bursts. I recommend Iron Will, Spine Chill and Resilience for stealth and gen speed, as focusing on gens is the best thing to do against them.
They do not need nerfed, they are fine.
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Idk, I feel like they're more rewarding to play now and still just as easy to counteract. I would say they're sat in their sweet spot right now because I still have fun facing and playing as legion and I still win and lose playing as and against them.
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"From a Legion main" who cares lol. It will not help you in your opinion to make it any more better than anyone else.
Yea, go ahead, go complain about weak killer. Go. Sure, whatever...
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Yeah those matches are so annoying to play, I rather go against a god nurse that wipes the whole team in 3 minutes. It was deserved for legion to get a buff in a way to down people more easy so he can actually hook more people. but why buffing the part what made legion annoying in the first place, I don't get it... Mending,mending,mending...
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not necessarily being nerfed, that's not what I said. I said they need to be changed. I can't see the point of a continuous stream of mending when I play as a survivor.
If the purpose is to slow the game down, a repetitive boring action is not the right thing to do and Legion is not balanceable with the current power.
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They might be ok strength wise but they have recreated a similar situation of OG Legion. You can't have a killer that just want to make you disconnect. This is what I feel when going against this version of Legion.
When I play as them I can clearly see the frustration in the survivor camp. It is not healthy
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Current Legion is nothing like the OG Legion - The OG Legion you were eventually going to go down in a chase no matter what and moonwalking as Legion was an actual strat to ignore deep wounds. Skill didn't matter it was literally just how long the chase extended to before Legion stabbed you again. That Legion isn't comparable at all because there was a low room for failure in a chase. Legion wasn't great (Same as they are now) and still lost games but that's what having a poorly designed killer is like. Legion is the reason a lot of current changes happened to the game which in my opinion were for the better. That's why when you run deep wounds doesn't go down.
This Legion survivors need to learn to adapt and properly split up and know when to mend. It's the same issue like when Bubba got their rework and people started calling Bubba of all ######### killers OP. It's because they weren't respecting his power and got surprised when they couldn't do the same thing they did in every other game against him. Same thing is happening with Legion - Survivors aren't adapting and are paying for it.
Legion has counter play, it's just harder than it was before
Honestly it's not even more difficult. The only thing that changed is Legion can now punish people who don't respect their power. That's all that changed.
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Nerfing is what it would come down to though, at this point.
The devs have clearly spent a good amount of time working on Legion and having them in the state they are in, they won’t be getting another major update for years.
The best counter to constant mending is to split up as far as possible and give your teammates time to do gens if you’re being harassed by Legions deep wounds. If 3+ people are constantly being deep wounded, there’s a problem there (or it’s never sleep pills and mural sketch).
I think Trapper is boring to face, I hate plague’s sickness, I hate Tricksters knives, I hate Leatherfaces chainsaw, but I don’t consider them In need of nerfing/changing. I just personally don’t like the gameplay they bring but I’ll try my best against them anyway.
I’d much rather have to mend constantly than try and avoid a chainsaw or constantly look out for traps.
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I like the point you made about Bubba. He’s not a meta Killer, but his power is pretty strong when Survivors don’t respect it. Legion appears to now be in a similar boat.
I did fear for Bubba back then but I’m glad the devs didn’t buy into the hysteria and nerf him. They did say they wait longer now between releasing something and changing it, so I’m sure when the Legion playerbase dies down a little people will be less hysterical. Especially when they learn more counter play (which they should be able to with how common Legion is now).
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Old Legion was the worst killer in the game this change was a must and needs to stay
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Mending's annoying but legion is the only killer apart from nurse who can vault a pallet and instadown you just like that. I think that's a little more of an issue right now
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I'm not having problems facing the buffed Legion. People should learn to not mend as soon as the killer hits them. If you're smart about it you don't need to mend non-stop.
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For how is legion now i think they should just get rid of mending, a frenzy hit should injure the survivors and that's it
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I was thinking the same. This mending situation is just ridiculous. It is not fun gameplay, versing current legion is like sitting on a cactus for hours.
Just injure survivors and thats it
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Survivors: Instadowns are totally BS, give us a non lethal killer
Devs: okay here's Legion his power can only down you on 5th hit and the killer gotta run across map and back twice to accomplish it
Survivors: Legion OP
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You are one of the people who think that all Survivors are stupid, am I right?
@Topic:
Yes, Legion needs a change. They buffed them and they were in need of a change. However, Legion needs a complete Rework. With their current power they will never be a good Killer.
Currently the only thing what Legion does is set you back into Mending as often as possible while running at least 3 Slowdown-Perks, which drags the game out to 15-20 minutes. And at this point, they have it quite easy, because most ressources will be gone, so downing someone as an M1-Killer is more than possible at this point.
I am honestly back to the point where I just want to give up against Legion. Gens take 96 seconds due to 4 Thana-Stacks, more M1-Pressing due to Mending and the progress you got will be wiped away with Pain Resonance and/or PGTW. It is not like the games are difficult or that new Legion is too oppressive per se. But their ability to drag every game out to such an extend makes the games really, really boring and I would rather prefer to face some Nurse or Blight who end the game in 5 minutes.
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Thank you Aven, this is exactly my point. This new Legion feels like the OG one in the sense that you just want to give up and go to the next match hoping it's not Legion again. It is unhealthy
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Legion does not need to be changed.
Just because you don't happen to like the only killer in the entire game that focuses on the 1v4 instead of the 1v1 does not mean we shouldn't have a 1v4 killer.
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To be fair to people complaining about Legion, I haven’t seen too many people saying they think Legion is “too powerful”. The complaint is more about the total length of the match against Legion and the gameplay loop Legion matches follow. The question isn’t “how easy is it to escape against Legion” but rather “how long are Legion matches on average and how much of the time in a Legion match is spent just Mending?” Hypothetically of Legion is great at stalling the game, but not weak at actually getting downs, then that could lead to games where you get interminable stalemates of survivors taking forever to finish the gens but Legion also taking forever to secure any hooks or kills.
I don’t have a strong opinion on this one since I’m a killer main and don’t experience the Mending side of things, but I can understand I think where that sort of complaint could arise if the new Legion matches tend to be longer affairs with a lot more Mending going on.
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+1
Every single Legion game I've played since the buff has inevitably ended in me just giving up because I just can't be bothered to play any more.
I realise that killers foam at the mouth as soon as survivors find something "boring", but when something is this tedious it's not longer an issue of "git gud whiny survivors hurr durr". It's unhealthy for the game in general.
Sadly they already said that a complete rework is highly unlikely, but that does at least show that the devs have considered it and therefore are aware of these issues. Tbh, I don't know if I trust them to come up with something that isn't even worse.
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The counter to legion is just to split up and not heal. By splitting up legion can't get multiple hits in FF.
Unless you allow legion to get 5 FF hits he is just a m1 killer.
As far as slow down perks every killer at the higher mmr needs to run a lot of slowdown perks to combat the fast gen speed. Try playing a m1 killer at high mmr without slowdown perks and the game will be over in 5 minutes.
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If that’s the case, looping should be removed from the game because it’s repetitive, boring and tedious for most killers.
Legion is only boring when you’re with a group who don’t know how to counter him. Had a match yesterday where my teammates didn’t know what Discordance was and kept revealing their locations. I was able to do three gens, lose him in chase multiple times cleanse three totems and deny him a chain hit several times because I’d just start running before he could make it to me (and lithe helped).
Many times, it’s really not the killer I have issues with when playing solo. It’s the idiot teammates.
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They need to adapt against the new legion instead of crying, I hope the legion doesn't become a Wraith 2, balanced, but just because the Wraith couldn't be bullied anymore they prefer to nerf it
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I agree, looping, camping, tunnelling and gen rushing are ALL aspects that should be removed. This has nothing to do with how boring are games with the new legion.
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I agree. I don't think a killer power should be centered around repetitive game delay. It was mistake the first time and it's a mistake now.
It's not a lack of understanding as far as adapting goes. It's not as if spreading out and not healing is some obtuse concept. The power isn't fun. Repeatedly mending isn't fun.
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Bingo.
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So in this scenario Legion has already hit all four survivors once and is chasing someone for their 5th hit, and this survivor vaults a pallet that has already been dropped, or threw a pallet against Legion early and did not knock him out of Feral Frenzy.
This isn't an issue. If a Legion manages to hit all four of you, and is right behind the last person hit they can down you. That's not a problem.
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Agreed. Honestly, I'll be really surprised if Legion doesn't get a rework just because everyone will start suiciding, instead of playing against him.
If all of your games ends in 10 to 15 minutes except for Legion games that end in 30 minutes, then you have a problem. The pacing of game doesn't allow for 1 killer to extend games to 30 minutes without making the game mind-numbing and boring AF.
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Only changes that I think should happen is a rework to Julie's mixtape that shouldn't even be a thing and a filthy blade rework because +4 seconds on a mend is just brutal
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Yeah, I think it's problematic when games push the 15 minute mark. That's way too long.
Plus there's a psychological aspect to constantly being interrupted and having to mend. It's like running in place and it feels frustrating. There's a difference between holding M1 to progress a relatively finite objective vs being repeatedly interrupted, having a screen effect take place, and having to hold M1 to resume what you were doing.
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Buffed Legion is definitely stronger, but the basic gameplay mechanics have been in place for years, so I just don't see this as a big issue. Maybe it's just because more people have been playing Legion this past week (i.e. people are getting annoyed because they're facing it more often)?
There have always been people who hated playing against Legion and there have always been complaints about "mending simulator." When you play against Legion (pre-buff or post-buff), there will be mending, since inflicting Deep Wound on multiple survivors is literally the main purpose of Legion's power.
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You nailed it 100%
They were mending before, they mending now. They are just seeing more legions than normal.
Id even go so far as to say that with old addons for range detection and feral frenzy increase you were getting more 4 person deepwounds.
The frequency of playing him is the only thing that has changed really.
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I don’t have a problem with base legion, but Julie’s mixtape was a mistake.
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There's nothing wrong with Julie's Mix Tape. If you pallet slam a Legion in Frenzy, you still break his chain combo, he won't be able to down you after that, he'll just be able to jump the pallet and hit you, which is something most Legions are going to do anyway because they'll wait for the pallet drop instead of running face first into it without a care.
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What is the point of the "its not fun to go against" arguments? 99% of the game is not fun to go against. The biggest difference is that some things (like legions power) actually have counterplay to minimize/negate their prevalence. Even with their buffs, legion can rarely get the 5 hits unless the survivors are grouped and oblivious.
Annoyed you have to mend? After you do, they didn't score a down, and the only way they're going to be able to down you with their power is if they manage to tag 3 people before you, then get you twice after. Did they tag you first then run back and get you for the last 2 hits? Don't instantly mend. You don't even have any benefit of doing it until after going outside of their TR.
Having to break half the doors on a map to break up god loops is annoying. Not being able to hook someone because there are zero hooks in range due to awful RNG is annoying. not being able to use a medkit or healing perks because you're up against vommymommy is annoying. everything is annoying but take the W when its at least something you can actually do something about.
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Seeing how deathslinger was changed to be more fun im happy I dont play legion.
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There's "people saying it's not fun" and it actually "not being fun".
I'm speculating and haven't played against Legion since the update, but if it's extending the game an extra 15 minutes and the game becomes mending-by-daylight, then my guess is it's in the "not being fun" category.
Also, Legion caused the game to be mending-by-daylight previously, and the developers changed him.
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And he was useless ever since. Legion has been consistently unviable for a very long time, because they didn't know how to make them viable without making survivors sad. The buff was arguibly one of the best ways to improve their viability while retaining their counterplay, of which there is still plenty.
Again, mending multiple times in a match is no less tedious than 99% of everything you have to do in the game regardless, for either side. You think killers have fun losing chases in order to watch that same stupid door kick animation for the 5th time in the match on maps like Badham?
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Never played Legion before, is now a good time or will I just be adding to survivor frustration?
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DBD players stop projecting your own subjective sense of unfun challenge (very hard)
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The only survivors you frustrate would have been frustrated regardless.
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Legion changes are just copium from 6 months of overpowered Boons.
Now that you cant brute force heals like before, you might have to...idk, be more strategic with your heals and mends.
I will say that Thana and Dying Light Legions are boring, however.
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If anything legion still needs buffs. Super fun to play now but base feral frenzy duration's rather low lol
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I can honestly live with that considering our stun CD is better
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This is why I wanted legion reworked instead of buffed.
He's very annoying to go against, probably the most annoying Killer.
That doesn't mean he's strong. That just means nobody finds him fun to play against.
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"The new speed feels great when you use Legion but from the survivor perspective is just a faster and faster freight train coming for you and there is not much you can do about it."
have you ever face a blight with both speed addons? that thing is a really "scary faster freight train coming for you"
you know that getting a stun on legion resets the chain hit playstile🤔 RIGHT?
about the mending playstile .............DONT MEND CLOSE TO A LEGION JEEEZ...outside of that i agree that mend overall is not fun but thats the thing dont mend evey single time you get hit. (if you hate mending just 99% your mend progress bar and do gens)
by doing this you dont get show by killer instinct and at the same time you avoid giving free chain hits for legion.
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Change the music, it's so bad
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So let's review.
Strong 1v4 power : Nope, not fun( proven via pinhead complaints and nerfs)
Strong anti-loop power: Nope, not fun(proven via Sprit, Pyramid Head, Nemesis, Deathslinger, Artist, etc.. complains and nerfs)
Strong mobility: Nope, not fun(proven via blight and nurse complaints)
Strong area defense power: Nope, not fun(proven via leatherface and twins complaints and nerfs)
Strong time waste power: Nope, not fun(proven via new legion)
What exactly DO survivors have fun playing against other than absolutely garbage killer powers(see trapper, sadako)?
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Legions power is just not suited for dbd and its current groundwork. That's the reality. It's not because it's op or take weak, it's because it's unfun and impossible to balance properly.
If they nerf Legion, the killer side suffers from having to use a now almost useless killer. If he's buffed, the survivors suffer from an unfun killer that the chase and game unbearable.
I think the devs should work to make Legion as he was previously advertised. Whether it be mimicking survivors or having 4 different power states or whatever. Running around and stabbing people is a far cry from what we were HEAVILY expecting
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They just want easy wins where they get to bully the killer.
I got told to uninstall because facing a team with flashlights and sabo builds I slugged and kept pressure on them. Therefore I was "boring".
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