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Toxic survivors make it hard to play nice
when I try to avoid tunneling camping or using gen slowdown perks and focus on getting everyone dead on hook so we can all get to end game and get bps survivors act all smug at the gate and it gets to me cause I know I could’ve easily 4k them if I wanted too. If you’re a survivor who doesn’t act toxic and hates tunneling and camping and gen slowdowns blame those people cause it gets old
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Maybe I’m too prideful lol but since survivors often complain about this stuff I just wanted to let you know why some killers just don’t care anymore. This is a toxic salt mining game
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It's an endless cycle. Survivors act cocky as they trounce a killer, the killer gets tilted and takes their frustrations out on the next batch of survivors, those survivors get a complex about killers being jerks and treat their next killers like crap, those killers get tilted... and so on. It's a chicken and egg thing; impossible to tell where it started, will continue on forever.
Best you can do is recognize that players aren't a hivemind and try to keep a level head instead of throwing in the towel and going "screw it, all survivors get facecamped" or "screw killers, all killers get BM." Use whatever builds you want to and handle the players you meet on a case by case basis. Personally I just save my bitchiness for survivors that act provocative and play how I'd like to play against everyone else. There's always bad apples, and unfortunately there's a lot of them here, but I've had plenty of good games with survivors that were chill or friendly in postgame chat, and a lot of players thanked me for spreading hooks, giving hatch, allowing glyphs, etc. You lose out on those kinds of interactions if you meet toxicity with toxicity and assume your opponents deserve to have a bad time before they do anything to earn it.
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The killers. Again and again the killers. I'm a survivor who doesn't T-bag, don't use emotes against the killer, don't use a flashlight, never say anything in chat... And? I am tunnel, camp, slug. I take hits on the hook. Nods of the head. "GG EZ" in the chat. Stop always bringing everything back to the killers like you were the only ones having bad times on this game. This community is toxic, immature and stupid. It's like that. Whatever you do.
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I never used to be toxic at all, no matter what the killer did. If I get repeatedly hit when hooked now though, I will T bag in the exit if I make it that far.
I still don't like doing it, makes me feel bad, but if the killer will be toxic to me, I will repay it back.
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Big difference between stress/tension and frustration, imo. The killer is mirror Myers? I'm chasing a survivor running a full Q&Q/Deception mindgames type build? Everyone's on death hook and there's a hotly contested 3gen in a game that could tilt either way? That's tense and stressful, but it's fun. How well I play and what decisions I make will affect what happens next, and having those stakes riding on you is what makes the game exciting. I'm not stressed if I go up against a basement Bubba or a box blocker Pig, I'm just annoyed, because there's zero opportunity for determinate gameplay. There's nothing stressful about hanging for two minutes while a killer whacks you. Same if you get relentlessly tunneled off hook and you don't get an opportunity to make any plays or use your perks. Or if you're up against a 4-stack of sabo-oak No Mithers who are determined to make you bleed them out in a corner.
Being nice isn't the same as farming. Everyone's got their own idea of being nice, and it doesn't have to conflict with actually playing the game like you're supposed to. I try to show mercy to survivors who'd get eliminated from the game too early (say I kept finding the same person for whatever reason, I'll leave them downed the third time instead of taking the death hook), I mercy teams who had early DCs, I avoid tunneling unless I'm losing, I'll aim to make sure everyone gets lots of bloodpoints if I see party streamers, and I try to reward/punish individual survivors for being team players or sandbaggers/corner crouchers. And if I do let everyone go after two hooks and a couple more downs for the hell of it - how often do you face a killer that does that? Seems rare enough to me that the DBD experience isn't losing any of its teeth. I enjoy the occasional breather when I'm playing survivor, that's for sure.
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Toxicity spreads toxicity. Its a really unfortunate aspect of online games, but as a player it is on you to be the bigger person. It is really unfortunate when people are genuinely toxic to you and I completely understand that you want to lash out. However if you choose to be toxic in response to somebody else, that does not make you any better. From the perspective of the person whose the victim of your toxic attitude, all they see is another toxic player. The fact that you were also victim of this behaviour does not justify it.
Imagine being bullied and instead of trying to overcome it you instead choose to bully somebody else who is smaller and weaker then you. Its actually worse when you do it, because you understand what is like to be a victim of toxic behaviour, and to then turn around give that same attitude to somebody else is pretty bad. As a community we should try harder to be more positive and understanding, instead of immediately lashing out every match.
Please try to be les toxic and more positive, even if others aren't, that makes you the better player.
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This is the best mindset to have when playing dbd. I love playing fair when I can, i.e, never tunneling or face camping and always switching survivors when chasing.
Unfortunately fair doesn't get you very far when against toxic survivors or elite death squads. You have to tunnel, you have to camp and you have to be toxic yourself to match theirs.
Being unable to play how you want on both sides is another cornerstone that's killing the game.
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being toxic and playing fairly are subjective opinions when it comes to dbd (most cases) if you want to 4k, 4k. its that simple. you dont need play fairly or camp and tunnel. just play in a way you find is the perfect balance between "fair" and "sweaty".
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Why do you have to play "nice" for any reason?
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I personally do my best to make each match fun in the ways you described. Showcasing skill with a 4k without gen slowdown perks is a great way to challenge yourself. Having empathy for the other side by not tunneling early is good. It makes you feel honorable and clean. It will also lead to more bloodpoints.
Expecting them to play by your rules or be grateful for your mercy is folly. It is not personal. It is the killer's burden.
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If it makes you feel any better there are genuinely kind survivors that play. I am one of them
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Toxic survivors don't make it hard to be nice. That's just an excuse people use to justify not being nice, because it's easier.
If you are nice, you do it because that's what you want, the other players behavior should have no inference on your own.
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I don't camp or tunnel as a general rule but if I'm BM'ed at a pallet I like to slug camp. No BT, no DS and a lot easier to ensure a death. Just be watchful for Adrenaline as unless the survivors are really altruistic the gens will get done for sure. I've only run into Soul Guard once so I don't really consider it an issue.
One game I had a chance to slugcamp and then, since the gates were opened and the teabagger tried to crawl there, I facecamped with a T3 Myers. It was satisfying.
After I take someone out like that though I let the remaining survivors farm BP with me, slam every pallet on the map on me if they want, etc so they can all leave with decent BP.
As a general rule, I'd prefer to lose a game rather than camp or tunnel but, if someone teabags at a pallet, the gloves are off with that survivor. If I have to 4 person slug to ensure a teabagger bleeds out I will. After though I'll pick up and drop one of the remaining survivors repeatedly so they get free, can pick up the other survivors, escape and get some BP.
That's how I deal with it but I also keep in mind that each survivor is an individual and just because one person teabags it doesn't mean the entire team is like that. For that matter, they could all be random individuals. If somebody BMs you they deserve what they get in response but it's better if frustration doesn't get taken out on unconnected individuals if possible.
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There is still the psychological aspect of positive/negative feedback loops.
No matter how nice a person someone is, if they only get scorn as feedback to their positive behaviour they won't continue with that and change in accordance to their surroundings.
For example if you bring pastry or cake everyday to your office or whatever and it is always met with critique or even displeasure then you won't do it after a certain point.
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Toxic killers make it hard to play nice. Camping and tunneling are only playstyles they know
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as far as i know, people started to being a bunch of dicks (a lot more than usual) when ochido appeared...
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tunneling and camping AREN'T TOXIC things, they are just boring and frustrating, but definitely NOT TOXIC
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First of all, tunneling/camping/slugging aren’t toxic. Second of all, if the game is getting you that upset, it’s a good idea to take a break. I did it in the past when DBD used to tilt me and now I’m at a point where I am untiltable.
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Simply because we know how rough it is to play on the survivor side, which is called empathy.
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sorry but i have to disagree with you... personally after more than 2000 hours on dbd, i met really FEW people that appreciate how i played, everyone else instead blame me for petty reasons... imagine being a prick toward the killer from the beginning and then complain about said killer that played mean toward you despite your huge amount of 2nd chances (dead hard, ds, bt, styptic agent and even adrenaline), or literally for nothing, harassing me in the endchat and even on steam. after all those hours passed to play "fair" you'll wonder why you still do it despite you already know that people doesn't deserve it
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Because this is the internet and it always start from some idiots be it survivor or killer. This keyboard warriors can be toxic and get away with it because there is no consequences to it thus allowing them to continue their toxicity and spread it to others. This in turn causes other players to spread it too because they are tired of playing nice.
Only difference between a killer and survivor toxicity is their arsenal. Killer can only do it mostly end game chat.
I have had games where none of us were T-bagging or clicking or bodyblocking or flashlight save but because he couldn only get 1-2 hooks the whole game and only managed to down one more at end game using NOED (worst part is the hex was near the hook). We played chill and decide to save despite knowing the killer is camping. Just wanted to try our luck because its boring to escape easily. And it turned out to be bad and from 1K it led to 4K for the killer. In the end game chat, first thing the killer typed was "GG EZ" when none of us even typed anything despite him only getting 3 hooks the whole game before we decide to save that hooked survivor.
Survivor wise I can agree, they can flat out do it when they escaped easily or even when you be nice to them the whole game and decides to spare them. I'm too lazy to elaborated on this.
It's just toxic people who always have the need to spread their negativity. I just hope get their karma in life.
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lol
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This Community whines a lot, I've been playing Trapper, Legion. Hag and Ghostface before the MMR change and you don't see me complain.
Dude if you really want to brag how good you are in game rather than playing fair, play some weak killer then proceed tunnel, camp and hook them 8 times and after you down them before the 3rd hook let them go, they'll think you're friendly and thank you most of the time,
its better to teach less skilled players how to deal with extreme methods rather than 4k'ing them then asserting "GGEZ" in chat, it pays to humble and to humble others rather than ruining their day, that's how i play after my mmr massively drops whenever i lose to SWFs.
Stop acting like anyone's entitled to anything and just have fun.
But if you're against less skilled Sabo Squads show "No Mercy".
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I get tunneled and camped every single match. Then hit on the hook and BMed the whole game. For no reason. It upsets them even more if you take long to go down and they take it as a personal offense. The whole "toxic survivors" thing has been dead for a while now, it's just not the same game it was in 2016. The tables have turned, and now playing survivors is the true nightmare.
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Best you can do is recognize that players aren't a hivemind
That's an important thing. I had one match where I encountered a David multiple times, but I was actively spreading out my hooks, so I didn't hook him. On three occasions, I downed him but left so that someone else could pick him up, giving myself some time without kicking him out of the game. One one of those occasions, I found him trapped in the undercroft of a building with no way out (It was the swamp stage) and dropped him off outside because one of the worst experiences I ever had with the game was very similar to that.
Post-game, he raged at me for tunnelling him, but one of his teammates actually pointed out to him that I'd been sparing him repeatedly.
It's not all bad. It's normal folks versus griefers and trolls.
Problem is that the devs clearly favour the latter two.
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As someone who mostly plays killer now I have to hold my hands up and say that if I have a bad game where I feel aggrieved, I have in the past taken out my frustration in the next game. Not by face camping at 5 gens etc but generally by being way sweatier and trying as hard as possible. This means going with the obvious perks, slugging constantly if necessary. Making sure someone is dead by the time 2 gens are left etc.
And after I get the 3/4 K did I feel good for it? I mean, not really. It was better than not getting any kills but the “reward” for that 4K isn’t really worth me winding myself up over. Plus the survivors I killed were playing totally fair- no BM, no toxicity etc. And what did it get them? Not an escape that’s for sure.
My big issue with the game is the devs claim to balance around 2K and 2 escapes. I would seriously love to know how many times people have those games because I hardly ever have a game like that. It always feels like all or nothing with this game and an all or nothing mentality is what breeds toxicity- in both sides. I want the matches to be challenging but fair. Not humiliations or annihilations for either side.
I will however say that I do think there should be more appreciation from survivors of killers. I agree with OP that you can have good games and not actually get any sacrifices or just one but a large number of survivors consider this a “GGEZ” and will call you trash and teabag at the gate when in reality if you’d played more ruthlessly instead of showing empathy and actually caring about another human’s enjoyment of a game, that teabagging survivor would probably be dead. My favourite is when I’ve deliberately ignored someone on death hook because they’re a bit useless only for them to let a better teammate die and teabag at the exit gate lol.
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I played almost flawlessly the other night without camping, just one tunnel. Depsite getting 32k and missing no more than 2 demon strikes all match, they still got 4 gens and had progess on the others.
So basically, I was nailed on for defeat whilst playing really well until I tunneled one out with 2 gens left.
Playing nice gets you nowhere in this game
Toxic survivors are 99% garunteed to be the ones that escape the trial, hence why they're toxic. They have skill and perks to fall back on and get away with it. When was the last time you smashed a toxic player?
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As many have pointed out, it is a vicious cycle that we will never break out of. Killers get toxic because they previously had toxic survivors, and vice versa. Tragic thing is that usually fair killers and survivors get tunneled or camped, which causes these players to start behaving the same.
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Yeah, sure. I get that. In real life no one wants to be a doormat.
But this is a videogame. The psychological effect of anything this anonymous bunch does should be minimal or non existant.
I'm not arguing against the idea to retaliate against the toxic players, everyone can do what they want, in simply arguing against using other people's miss behavior as an excuse to do the same and calling their fault that its "hard" to be nice.
It's not hard. It's just easy not to be nice.
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I understand what you are saying and the frustration you must feel, but again, nothing of what you described makes being a nice player hard.
Nothing of that is actually physically preventing you from being nice or forcing you into being a mean person.
It just makes it extra easy to justify being so. You can't blame others for your own decisions (at least not in an online videogame).
Also, generally speaking I don't consider one is nice because the people receiving the niceness "deserves" it. You do it because you want to, that's it. Though this is admittedly an opinion.
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The slug camping teabaggers? It's cathartic; try it.
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Decided long ago, no mercy.
Best thing you can do is just play the game comp style, hook them and get on to next match. No mercy, no following Feng to the hatch for feels. Opening exit gate and last one? you going on hook.
Blood N Hugs,
Post edited by DrDeepwound on0 -
And I would've to disagree with you. This might be only a video game and everyone is anonymous in behind an alias in the internet but humans are being that are able to feel and perceive empathy.
Flipping someone the bird, words, gestures, figures, body language, behaviour and much more and the intent behind those things is perceivable for humans.
Certain actions are socially coupled with different intentions and meanings and people are able and programmed to perceive them and react physically and psychologically in response if they want or not.
Someone calling you an a...hole is just air creating vibrations inside someone's throat but we all perceive it as an insult. Same with the word in writing, just a medium representing an intent behind it, that has been socially connected.
Tbagging and camping and so on can have different strategical meaning but the other side will always see a certain intent behind it and sometimes it is clear as day what that intent is.
Ignoring that and being the bigger person takes a not insignificant amount of mental fortitude and over time mental endurance and can be worn down over time with the feedback loop mentioned before.
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I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Perhaps we are just too different?
I understand that different people have different tolerance for social pressure and negative experiences, but I sincerely fail to understand how people behavior in an online community or game can have such an impact on a person's psyche (assuming this person has a life outside the internet) such as to actually change that person's personality.
I don't think I'm a person of particular mental fortitude or anything, but these things are just completely irrelevant for me.
Anyway, thanks for sharing your POV, as I can see now that something that might obvious or common place for me might be different for others around here.
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So nice to have a different opinions without having the need to belittle each other for a change
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The #1 thing that burns me out on this game is the community, for very much these reasons. It's completely septic - if I'm playing killer, it's almost guaranteed that I'll have survivors acting the fool at some point and if I'm playing survivor, I'll be hit on hook and bled out with knockout for literally no reason. It's all I can do sometimes not to become toxic myself.
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Thats a wonderful attitude with how to confront other people's opinions and maybe to make things more clear, i come from a background of more or less intense mobbing from Grade 1 through 10 (German school system, it got better in grade 11-13) and am sometimes extremely sensitive towards antagonizing behaviour of groups against an individual. Because that what it most often feels like when you have for example multiple survivor blocking even your first hook attempt or tbagging in the exit gate.
I don't take such things personally anymore and am above such behaviour but understand and emphasize with every complaint on here about such behaviour.
I even played for survivors for the last 2 years to ease the burden of camping, tunneling and slugging.
I of course didn't farm and played like normal until all were on deathhook but without much positive feedback (to which i am of course not entitled) it gets hard keeping such playstyle and behaviour up over a long time. And the amounts of different Feedback are like often distributed similar to a bell curve with positive and negative (really toxic) feedback being the outliers but the main portion was often silence or GG more often after trials that ended in more or less crushing defeat but really seldom when i as the killer won.
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Well. Say what you will. You seem like a nive person to me :)
It's great that you can overcome your harsh experiences, even share them with others.
Good luck in everything you do.
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There are definitely more toxic survivors than killers. Like I do not get the mentality of waiting in the exit zone to tea bag... especially when a lot of the time many survivors that do it absolutely do not deserve the attitude. I've seen so many of them on my teams who do this despite escaping by the skin of their teeth and it makes me annoyed that i wasted my time to go save them and deprived the killer of their win.
As a killer I'm pretty low stress too. I'm not good at it and that's fine. But Survivors will latch on to this and try to take advantage of it like SWF groups body blocking me and multi blinding me and what not....its like, guys I'm a newb killer anyway. Why bother? I'll get a 2k max If I'm lucky... and I think this is where the animosity comes from. Another time, in another match I had 2 sacrifices and one Nea was pretty good at looping me. I had NOED (again, I'm a newb, I need it) and managed to down both her and a Meg at the exit gates before theyd been opened. I hooked the Nea, then carried the Meg over and gave her enough time wriggle off to unhook the Nea as on reflection i felt she deserved the escape. So the meg unhooks her, I had a nice nod moment with the Nea and let her go. The Meg also left but went to the other gates and deliberately stood there to give me the run around and wait for me to see her leave... but I was clearly going to let her go anyway. I could have hooked her and got 4k. I don't get this mentality and again it's why killers are choosing less and less to have a good time with survivors... because often they're dicks about it.
Survivors shouldn't be able to be this cocky against the killer. I blame SWF for a lot of it. I play mainly solo q and it feels more true to what a survivor experience should be like.
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And on the other side of that coin, dealing with toxic killers is what makes doing the Midwich bug so enjoyable as a survivor.
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eh maybe I need to toughen up but at the same time play my hardest to win lol
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