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New Hemorrhage feels Oppressive; a way to Counter it would be nice.
Quick overview of the effects of old / vs / new Hemorrhage!
Old Hemorrhage: increases the rate at which blood drops on the ground. This effect was intended to help Killers track Survivors.
New Hemorrhage: in addition to its old effect, Hemorrhage now regresses healing progress at a rate of 7% per second, so long as a survivor afflicted with Hemorrhage remains injured. This means that survivors healed 99% will take a mere 14 seconds to lose every ounce of healing progress they'd earned.
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General Notes:
Some Perks and Add-ons that inflict Hemorrhage have an increased healing regression as part of their effect. For example, Sloppy Butcher regresses healing at about 8% to nearly 9% , depending on what Tier the Sloppy Butcher perk is.
Issue:
Most players agree that the old Hemorrhage status felt bare-bones and rarely, if ever, changed the outcome of a match. However, while the new Hemorrhage effect is much more helpful, it feels too oppressive for survivors. This is especially the case in situations where killers want to chase players recently taken off hooks, who may have been in the process healing / being healed.
Potential Solutions:
Being able to counter Hemorrhage in some way would be ideal, but there might also be a conversation for a rework regarding the rate of healing regression. As it stands, the healing regression from Hemorrhage makes perks like Solidarity and Resurgence much weaker, and in many cases, completely useless. My ideas for reworks for these two perks, are as follows:
-Resurgence: In addition to its other effect: When this Survivor is unhooked, the effects of Hemorrhage are not felt for some time (say, 20 seconds or so). This would essentially be a Grace Period of not feeling Hemorrhage.
-Solidarity: In addition to its other effect: While healing another Survivor, the effects of Hemorrhage are not felt; when completing healing a health state on an injured Survivor, the effects of Hemorrhage are not felt for some time (perhaps 10 seconds, give or take).
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Other Potential Hemorrhage Reworks:
This is a strong opinion, so I would love to hear what other players feel about it:
The value for Hemorrhage's healing regression is too high, making it punishing to Survivors, despite little Killer input / skill.
A player takes 16 seconds for a full heal from the Injured State, and 32 with the effects of Mangled; Hemorrhage regresses those efforts within a mere 14 seconds.
-Reducing the value of regression to half of what it currently is may sound extreme to some, but I believe it's what's needed to balance this effect. 28 seconds to regress what is nearly a full-heal would give Survivors more agency in what actions they can take to prevent their efforts being wasted, in terms of healing.
-Another potential way to counter Hemorrhage would be to look at the med-kit add-ons! Several of the current med-kit addons are simply repeats of other addons! Changing the effects of one to allow players to "Press the Ability Button; nullify effects of Hemorrhage for 20 seconds; this has 2 uses, and does not deplete the medkit." This might sound odd at first, but it would allow players more agency into how they utilize their resources, whilst not automatically solving the immediate problem of being hurt.
Final Thoughts:
The Anti-Hemorrhagic Syringe is already the best counter to Hemorrhage; Boon: Circle of Healing is already prevalent in the meta; and good med-kits+addons are extremely common in successful survivor matches. I worry that if the current Hemorrhage is not addressed in some way, Survivors will feel compelled to much-more-consistently bring strong medkits and Healing Boons. I believe this effect will lessen the fun for both Survivor and Killer, in terms of variety. Buffing Resurgence and Solidarity would bring those perks some relevance and usage among the player base, bringing more variety to matches and maybe even the current meta!
Comments
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It’s called finish the heal or don’t start when you know you can’t finish it. There doesn’t need to be a hard counter to everything, and hard counters are usually bad design anyways, because it means a gameplay mechanic or whatnot takes precedence over player skill. It’s not even strong enough to warrant any nerf whatsoever. Reducing the regression rate would make it garbage.
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No, I suppose you're right that not everything needs a hard counter. But as a survivor player, I feel frustrated by how intense this new version of Hemorrhage is.
Most frustrating of all though, personally, is how it makes Resurgence useless, and it's a perk I like a lot. That's my main gripe, to be honest with you!
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Resurgence isn’t useless if you finish the heal. If you’re in a situation where the killer keeps coming after you quick, you can go with options to heal faster. Eg, medkits or heal speed perks on you or friends or whoever. Hemorrhage finally has an actual impact for once, it’s at the point where it should be.
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No hemorrhage was reworked to be a counter to. The heal meta and the problem that people 99 the heal to abuse Mechanik that are supposed to be beneficial because of the risk. The counter to the new hemorrhage is to think before you heal. Are you safe where you are? is the killer doing another chase? You just can't sit in the open field or under the hook and heal then get chased a bit dropp a strong pallet heal maybe DH dropp the next pallet and finish healing while in the freaking chase
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Honestly I don't see why hemorrhage needs another change. It's not oppressive, it's doing exactly what it is designed to. Make healing take longer if you get interrupted during the heal.
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You're right, and I'm glad they did! The healing meta was pretty bad before, especially with Boon: Circle of Healing and incredible medkits-- the new Hemorrhage's ability is healthy for the game, but I still think its effect is too fast. I would be happy with some kind of middle ground, personally
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I don't think that hemorrhage needs to be changed in its current form, it punishes survivors for poor planning and rewards killers for bringing in ways to apply it, no killer gets hemorrhage as their basekit they always have to give something up to bring it so it should be impactful since they have to put 1/6th of their build towards it. On top of the fact that all of that can mean nothing if survivors just play around it by healing in good spots and making more opportunities to heal by increasing heal speed through perks its a perfect change to encourage build diversity towards healing, while the killer doesn't even have to have the effect.
That said I do think resurgence, and solidarity should be changed to affect the hemorrhage status effect in some way so they don't lose out on their effects. But no other changes are needed to other perks items or the hemorrhage effect itself.
Heres how I would add to the perks
Resurgence, (added effect) your healing progress cannot regress below 50%.
This effect would stop gap the regression off hook and provide a niche secondary benefit even when not hooked.
Solidarity, (added effect) healing progress gained from healing another survivor cannot regress and your healing progress doesn't regress while healing another survivor.
Again just stop gap so no healing progress is lost and potentially if someone injured comes to you mid heal you won't lose anything by healing them like how it used to work before.
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If other players feel the way I do about the new Hemorrhage, then they'll bring the Anti-Hemorrhagic Syringe to as many matches as they can, bc they're frustrated like I am. It's a little disheartening to be a killer (who may not even use Hemorrhage effects) and seeing multiple survivors using Anti-Hemorrhagic Syringes in a single match. It's just a really good item in general.
I'm not saying it's bad an item like that exists or anything, just saying a player will use the best/easiest solution to solve a problem, meaning less variety in matches, which can get a little stale.
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Fair enough! I'm mostly frustrated with how quickly you lose healing progress-- it's quicker to lose progress than gain progress on the heal, that's the part that gets me personally. I am glad the new Hemorrhage effect exists in the game though, and I think it was definitely needed!
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You can't finish the heal if the killer comes back to the hook, and running away from the hook for 7 seconds makes you lose all value from Resurgence! Killers come back to hook, I would say, at least 1/4th of the time. This makes Resurgence's two potential uses in a match much less likely, which is disappointing.
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The way you've put everything kind of brings me around on the effect! You're right in that the killer doesn't get much value from the effect if they aren't pursuing ways to make it work, or devoting perks / extra add-ons to supplement it!
But I especially like your ideas for Resurgence and Solidarity reworks! I think those would be perfect to keep them on level with this new effect!
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I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the hemorrhage mechanic itself. The dying state recovery regression it had on the PTB was far too oppressive, but that was removed.
I do agree that Resurgence and Solidarity could use some tweaks though to allow them to not lose value right away.
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I think it's perfectly where it needs to be (except these to perks they should get excluded) because it needs to be oppressive. If you act like I just said hemorrhage isn't there you won't feel it and the killer basicly wasted a perks or addon slot. I think any lower and it would lose its feels since heal effects still can be stacked infinitely so you could still use strong structures to heal up while in chase and that Shoulnd be possible outside of an instaheal
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It helps with tunneling, Hemorrhage + Tunneling = 4k GGEZ
It actually makes Wraith viable in High MMR and extremely oppressive at lower tiers, it makes healing null and what's worst is that it makes medkit downright useless if the killer knows what they're doing, I've been using it on most of my m1 killers and its practically a hard counter to the healing meta.
Hemorrhage hard counters Built to last(Medkit), Self Care, Resurgence, COH and any slow healing meta is dead.
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......... What if you simply finish the heal?
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Ahh ok that's what happened a sudden change but i like it. Means I can't heal right in front of a good killer without being punished.
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Otz just had a match as Wraith with Sloppy, and survivors got away because they had a Boon.
Boon trumps Haemorrhage. Sorry.
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The new hemorrhage is not intense, op, or broken in the slightest. Heal when it is safe, or don't heal at all.
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Have you tried finishing a heal with a Wraith or Twins chasing your A$$, its f*cking IMPOSSIBLE
They hit you then leave you, then come back and boom your caught off guard, Medkit wasted, Another person DEAD.
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Your problem isn't hemorrhage. Hemorrhage doesn't really do much if the killer interrupts your heal and then downs you.
And also, so what? It's a valid strategy.
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I have no problem with looping, My problem is If I'm using Built to last how am i suppose to finish a full heal when i have to do 12 second locker break every time I can't finish a full heal, it a waste of a Extremely Necessary MEDKIT that I PAID for with BPs.
It invalidates a whole Strategy regardless of Survivor playstyle, There's no avoiding it.
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That's too bad, but that's part of the game. The killer can interrupt you while you are healing and down you causing your med-kit charges to be wasted.
Your problem is feelings of entitlement.
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Hemorrhage does not affect this interaction between you and these killers in any way.
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This has nothing to do with hemorrhage nor the killer play style.
You were just healing in a bad place or got caught by nurse's calling which is meant to help killers interrupt heals.
Knowing when you can safely heal and when to try risky heals is part of the survivor's skill expression.
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Have you checked my previous posts, it works extremely well with undetectable killers who can tunnel out survivors. There's no safe time to heal, if the killer wants you out of the game first you're not going to be able to heal nor outplay him.
The killer will leave to kick a gen and then when you get unhooked he comes back to tunnel and when you try to heal boom nurse's calling. Rinse then Repeat, free 4k everytime.
Every survivor goes down after a while, but injured survivors can only last for a few seconds.
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neither does my DS but why do killers whine?
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Yeah, Sure, Sloppy doesn't invalidate healing mechanics at all, so is my DS, it doesn't invalidate a whole chase, never at all.
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Yes killers can run anti healing perks. That's a valid strategy. At no point are you entitled to complete a heal.
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Run addons that give charges
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