Green Key - Get rid of it
Only item in the game that does nothing on its own without add-ons - even a green map reveals gens.
It's even a poorer joke when it crops up in chest searches.
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Not necessarily disagreeing with you here but I'd argue that since the nerf to keys (or rather, hatch rework), the blue "Dull Key" is even worse. Sure, it can unlock hatch, but that's rarely ever going to happen, and it can only use add-on effects for a mere 5 seconds (compared to the green "Broken Key" being able to use add-ons for 10 seconds).
Rather than get rid of it completely I think keys just need a new base function. Maybe allowing survivors to interact with breakable walls somehow would be interesting.
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Problem solved with my idea to merge keys and maps into a new "Compass" item.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/321559/from-keys-and-maps-to-compass
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Anything would be better than that green key.
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I mean, if they gave green key natural aura reading ability and slapped more seconds onto it would've been fine imo.
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Green keys should go bye bye.
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I had the idea to put a random addon on it: Eroded Token, Gold Token, Blood Amber or Unique Wedding Ring.
Or give it the effect of the Eroded Token and remove that addon (gold token is so much better).
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I think all keys need to have a secondary effect with no addons other than opening the hatch.
Then make the green key yellow and get rid of purples.
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Yeah, I’ve said something similar of merging keys with another item like maps or flashlights or both. Basically Tools and Medkits are significantly better than all those other items, if they merged the functions of some of the others it would reduce bloodweb clutter and also buff the weaker items.
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I wouldn’t merge them with flashlights, but maps actually might work - never really thought about doing that but that seems like something that could be done. They both focus on aura reading so I don’t think they’d be too hard to put together.
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Flashlights aren’t very good items generally speaking compared to tools, they are popular though so … 🤷♂️ Anyway my thinking on combining flashlights and maps was when you shine a light in a direction it highlights auras in its range, so sort of like a conic aura effect. I think it would be a cool thing thematically, like you’re actually shining the light around looking for things in the dark.
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All keys should be removed. The developers are never going to rework them. So survivors are getting useless items everytime they pop up in the blood web. I guess it does allow me to completely ignore keys in the blood web and get more toolboxes, medkits and flashlights.
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Keys and/or Maps need to be reworked entirely. It's bizarre that there are two items that basically do the same thing (outside of opening the hatch which is now very niche)
I think Keys should interact with chests. They decrease the time it takes to open them, and increase the chances of getting a rarer item from them. You could use an add-on to guarantee a medkit/toolbox/map. Unlocking consumes charges, and all keys could still unlock the hatch, so you're gambling on rolling a better item from a chest in exchange for giving up your hatch escape.
They would essential be a wildcard item, that you could use to choose your item providing you 'get it yourself' from a chest. So sure, you could roll a purple medkit on toolbox via the bloodweb and bring that in, but if you run out of toolboxes and you want to bring one into the game, instead of spending 200k BP trying to fish for one on the bloodweb, you bring a key and a 'toolbox-add-on' and try your luck from a chest.
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It should be removed from chest loot pools
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Maybe the keys could serve to instantly open the gates to start the ECG, and it wouldn't be 99% at the gate. Once used, the gate opens automatically. It would be very useful for the last survivor against killers who have high mobility.
The green one could be used to open chests instantly, as someone already mentioned above.
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Definitely not. Chests are a horrible was of time right now. I don't want keys to interact with chests, because chests are such a waste of time that it will make keys a waste of time by default.
I would say that Keys should give you aura effects for the entire match, such as the wedding band already does. Plus Keys have always been associate with group aura reading abilities already. Let the addons modify the aura reading affects, wedding band lets you also see the OoO. Another addon might give you After-care. Another add on my increase the aura ranges. Another lets survivors see you. Etc etc.
- Green Keys - Empathy
- Red Keys - Bond
- Purple Keys - Kindred
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If keys made opening chest quicker, they wouldn't be such a waste of time...
Plus what happened to "survivors need more objectives"? Use the chests, they're in the game, this would make them more useful.
Again, why do keys have aura readings? It makes no sense, and we already have an aura reading item, MAPS.
If you want Kindred, run Kindred. Bond? Run Bond!
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It takes 10 seconds to search a chest. The absolute best Toolbox increases gen times by 16 seconds. Take 10 seconds away from that and you have 6 extra seconds of gen time. But, you also have to consider the time it takes to get to the chest and get back to a gen. So even the best Toolbox from a chest can negatively effect your gen time.
On top of that, Flashlights and Keys are useless, so 1/2 the time, you just wasted 10 seconds of time doing a gen.
Chests are a noob-trap right now. A chest, on average, never improves your chances of winning.
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You call chests a noob trap in the same post you say "Flashlights are useless"? Lolwut
Loads of good players open chests, I raid chests all the time, and they don't get me or the team killed. You're either obsessively seeking optimisation for a top MMR bully squad, or you're nowhere near as good as you think you are.
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I'll explain my viewpoint to you. And remember, doing gens is how you win the game, every second you aren't doing a gen is reducing the chances of you winning the game.
- Chests take 10 seconds to search. (That's 12.5% of gen being completed)
- Keys are worthless (1/4 of the items you get out of a chest are worthless)
- Flashlights - If you are using a flashlight to save someone, that means 2 people aren't working gens. Even if you get the flashlight save, you have lost more gen time than the save was worth, unless the killer happens to down the survivor next to you. If you are chasing the killer, thats a whole bunch of gen time wasted. (That's another 1/4 of items you get out of a chest, being worthless).
- Medkits - Only useful if you are hurt. If you never use the medkit, then you just wasted 10 seconds of gen time.
- Toolboxes - Here's a chart showing you how much extra gen time you get out of each type of toolbox, if you search a chest.
So, basically, searching a chest is "on average" always detrimental to doing generators. 2/5ths of toolboxes from chests are worthless, Medkits are situational, Keys are worthless and even if you feel flashlights are worthwhile, you still are getting a bunch of junk from chests.
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Dude, mathing this out isn't going to win me over, it doesn't mean all that much. If you read my previous post you would have realised that.
Oh no, you've lost 2.7 seconds in a FIFTEEN MINUTE LONG MATCH.
That doesn't matter for survivors, at all.
It matters for killers because every second counts when there's four survivors smashing out gens. but survivors can literally crouch around the edge of the map for the whole game and still win.
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Of course showing you the actual math isn't going to affect you, if you believe survivors can just crouch around the entire map all game and consistently win matches.
You have unrealistic beliefs.
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Perhaps, but the duration of those items might be an issue then. 8 seconds (or 12 for the purple flashlight) is fine for them as they stand now, but if they were also meant to be used for aura reading then that might be a bit too short. But I like the theme of the idea!
Idk about instantly open the gates, but allowing them to have a small speed boost to opening the gates wouldn't be a bad idea. At the very least it'd fit thematically.
The thing with opening chests faster is that in order to get any value from opening a chest, you would need to swap your key for the item inside of it, unless you leave the item there for someone else to take. Although if you find a medkit and heal yourself up with it, and then take your key back, I guess that would be pretty useful.
I wouldn't necessarily call chests a "noob trap" since you will often get a brown or yellow medkit and those can be helpful.
However, I will actually help your case here by pointing out that your chart is incorrect - unless the toolbox you find enables you to pull off a clutch sabotage play, you're never gaining gen time from toolboxes you find in chests unless you have ace in the hole, and this isn't even taking into account the time it takes to go to the chest.
This is what it actually looks like:
Time to consume is how long you can repair a gen before the toolbox is depleted, so for example the brown toolbox lasts for 10.67 seconds and will complete 16 seconds of a generator in that time, for 5.33 seconds of time saved.
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They just need to rework keys.
Make doors. Survivors can open doors through a 8 second animation, which preserves them. They can be slammed shut to stun a killer - but killers can break them like a breakable wall.
With a key, charges are expanded to open a door in 1.5 seconds.
Make Keys open gates and chests faster as well - and perhaps add some sort of element that aids when interacting with a killer belonging. Keys should be very quick 'get out of jail free' cards.
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– Expend charges to unlock chests much faster. Animation to use key in order to open hatch. Keys unlock exit gates faster at the expense of charges. Broken key extends the range of all aura reading by 8m. Keys have different models. Iridescent addon to keys to spawn hatch sooner. Addon to make key able to open hatch – Pink Keys do this by default. Purple keys no longer open hatch by default. Keys can open doors extremely quickly with a 1.5s animation at the expense of charges.
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Would be nice if a key could be used to instantly free yourself from a bear trap, complete a Jigsaw box search, Open a Nemesis Chest instantly, etc.
At that point, the Broken key can be more addon reliant - but perhaps only grant a certain amount of opening speed buffs where Dull keys offer normal and Skeleton Keys have far more utility baked in.
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I use the green key a lot actually with the add-on that reveals the killers aura because it helps in chase and isnt super rare....
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Idk about instantly open the gates, but allowing them to have a small speed boost to opening the gates wouldn't be a bad idea. At the very least it'd fit thematically.
The thing with opening chests faster is that in order to get any value from opening a chest, you would need to swap your key for the item inside of it, unless you leave the item there for someone else to take. Although if you find a medkit and heal yourself up with it, and then take your key back, I guess that would be pretty useful.
By instantly open the gate using the key, i meant take the same time to open the hatch - 2.5 seconds of animation with the key (just to avoid opening the gate in the killer's face and not getting punished).
And even if it took less time to open the gate, I don't see so much problematization, because in order to open the gate it means that all the generators were made or only one survivor remained (and the hatch was closed) - the animation always starts from 0 when reset and once it completes the gate goes to 100% automatically.
In a hypothetical scenario where Killers are using a full EGC-focused build, even here they wouldn't feel much difference, not least because the mandatory perk in this niche is no way out (with Noed, Blood Warden and Remember me), which blocks interaction with the gate (removes just a little bit of pressure from the remember me perk once the gate is unlocked ).Just noting that killers have full access to items that survivors are taking in the match, it's quite easy to replace one of the perks with Franklin's Demise
The most affected alone would be Remember Me, but 1 item to counter 1 perk alone isn't a big deal.
about the green key... well, it is already an underappreciated item, and it just wouldn't be worth spending time opening chests with it if... another green key appeared (quite unlucky).
Ps: There could be a new addon for keys to increase the rarity of items obtained from chests, stacking with Plunderer's Instinct. So, would be worth spending on the green key these addons, and even fully depleted (using the aura reading addons), it would still open chests instantly
Post edited by randonly on2 -
Can we all take a short break to appreciate the use of the term "problematization" please?
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English is not my native language, sorry for any miss translation/interpretation
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Hey thanks. I thought each charge was consumed in 1 sec and each 1 sec of use gave you 1 sec of gen repair plus the percentage.
So a worn toolbox would give you 16 sec of repair time but also another 50%, so 16 + 8 = 24.
So, searching chests is ever worse than I thought.
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I agree with opening chests - that it's basically bringing an item to swap, although I think it's generally the idea of the point. It would be nice to bring an item that is, in essence "Get your backup items faster"
It would be nice if other gameplay features were implemented to attract key use, such as locked doors and what not.
In addition, it would be super sweet if keys could dispel Entity Blocks upon interaction at great expense to the key.
I think being able to bring a key to go for a 4th vault, chew through a Dead Man's Switch, or remove No Way Out may make them attractive in particular circumstances with certain addons.
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At this point, I see a key as a part of the bloodweb I can completely ignore. Keys are so worthless now, that they should just be removed. So much for a "rework" thanks BHVR developers!
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