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Nerfed then neglected, the sad comparison between blight and spirit
long post here so i appreciate those that stick around to hear me out. first ill discuss spirit as a character then compare the two. id also like to say ive got many hours on spirit with a good audio setup before someone says "get a better headset" or something, these are all genuine problems
as we all know blight and spirit are seen as top killers, but after the spirit nerf you don't see her as often at all compared to blight. the dev team removed most of her viable addons (green speed/duration/activation) and replaced them with useless ones that no one uses, now all spirit has is that remains viable is yellow speed/duration (possibly) and 2 purples (blossom amulet) when pared with one iri addon (MDR). spirit is also one of the only killers that gets hard countered by one perk (iron will) since its bugged right now and has been for ages, i made a post on how before.
MAIN SPIRIT ISSUES:
issue 1: power recovery and painful downtime
the spirit becomes very annoying to play when you feel the survivors are not outplaying you with skill but instead are using a single perk to rely on. the main issue you will find yourself with playing spirit is her awful power recovery speed (base kit). scenario: you phase accurately onto a survivor as you are able to hear them breathing when healthy when running and get the hit on them, you then phase after them using all your power, appear behind them, swing and they dead hard into a pallet, now you are stuck as a 110% killer with no power running around helpless for 15 seconds. so much time lost and ur unable to mindgame any loop as a 110% with no power. the downtime on her power feels awful to play with. there is no reason spirit should be waiting 15 seconds to be able to do anything of use again
issue 2: bugged sounds/perks
the spirit relies alot on audio, and when you have a perk to make survivors literally inaudible you feel you need to get lucky and not be able to use your skill to down them, not the best feeling. eyrie of crows remains to have sound bugs with footsteps and other key audio sounds making the map unplayable with spirit. ormond used to have this issue but its been fixed recently.
issue 3: speed build up bug
the spirit currently has a bug that can happen quite often, after fully charging your power you are meant to phase at max speed, but now there is a chance that you start phasing very slowly and then gradually build up to max speed (pls fix this)
issue 4: robbed power after ending early
there is a small bug that annoys me alot, if i end phase early such as half way, the game then takes away another 10% or so of my power from where i visually see it end. again please fix this.
NOW ITS TIME TO COMPARE spirit and blight and why i feel spirit has been completely neglected
my first MAJOR issue that confuses me so much- why is blight 115% speed and spirit is 110%? blight has a stronger power then spirit, hes able to move faster AND cover more ground then her, aswell as this his power recovery from 0 is 10 seconds compared to spirits 15 seconds. and to make it worse, spirit as a 110% cant mindgame during downtime but blight is 115% and can still be useful in his downtime. and no her passive phasing does not make up for this, its useless. and the best part about this all is spirit is completely blind when using her power just to hit it home. this is why she needs to be 115% unless you change her power downtime. blight can also one shot pallets with his power while spirit needs to normally break. the usual counter argument would be "but Emblerr the spirit is invisible aswell" and to that i say yes but now the survivors can pinpoint where she is very easily, stand at a pallet and stun her. they know where she is, she has no clue where you are if you run 1 bugged perk and that perk you will see on atleast 2 survivors every game. another sad thing for spirit is she needs to sit still blind when charging her power before shes able to use it while blight can just speed off instantly, this was now amplified with the removal of spirits bloody hair brooch addon that made up for this issue.
ADDONS;
blights addons are ALL very strong, he has an addon to allow him to insta down a survivor from healthy to dying, one to melt pallets super fast while slowing survivors at the same time and an addon to regain full power back after a hit. imagine if spirit had an addon to recharge full power after a successful hit out of phase to bypass her awful downtime. blights speed addons are very strong aswell both his green and yellow. shame spirits green speed was removed aswell. blight also has an addon to reveal auras of survivors he is near from 8 meters away with an aura while spirits best addon is only 4 meters, gives killer instinct instead AND removes all her scratch marks instantly if you use it. she gets downsides and blight does not
now im not saying you need to nerf blight i need to make that clear. just when he gets the advantage in every single category over nerfed spirit it shows that she was just nerfed and neglected. i hope the devs will read this and maybe think again with adding back her old green addons or maybe making her 115%. maybe fix her downtime. you dont need to do all of them at once obviously but a few of these changes would make her so much better and flow easier, you could even change her greens again to something more usefull. thanks for reading
edit: saying there are more neglected killers is true but its just avoiding all the issues ive stated here and creates nothing
Comments
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If you want to talk about neglected killers, more than a quarter of the roster would be more apt than these two.
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I'm not sure if you're still on the forums, but here's some Spirit blasphemy
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Fairly certain there's wayyyyy more neglected killers
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if you read the post you can see its the opposite, im asking for a positive change for her as she needs it
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He’s done with her unfortunately
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I know, I've read it, but TheGannMann is/was very defensive about any Spirit changes, so I decided to @ them, also because I don't know anything about Spirit.
That's dissapointing
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they didnt nerf here so that people would actually play her, just so they'd stop complaining about her. the outcome is irrelevant to them now that the complaining has (mostly) stopped.
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She is a bit rare killer nowdays. No longer one of the top most seen.
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compared to about 60% of the killer cast, Spirit is in a great place. She can only be considered a tiny bit weaker when talking about either nurse or blight, compared to which all other killers are pathetic and awful.
A blight in his power needs to be good, can be outplayed in a lot of scenarios and gets stunned after missing. Spirit needs good headphones and tracking but less mechanics. Additionally she is far more forgiving.
Spirit being invisible IS a big deal, and no her location cant be pinpointed, you can only tell which direction shes coming from, not how close she is. You being stunned constantly sounds like a skill issue tbh
The only thing i can agree with in this post is that blights addons go too far. but that doesnt mean spirits addons are bad. take a look at the other killers (im talking billy, PH, Twins, Onryo, freddy, ...) addons, and you will find that a lot are useless, tradeoffs with too weak an upside, situational at best, and so on.
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Still better than rest of literal trash.
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its very easy to hear where she is. and to avoid the stun you need to go around the wall to the left or right of the pallet after they drop it to meet them around the other side, by then they reach the window or you run out of power and need to wait 15 seconds again, if you dont go throught the pallet and risk the stun you run out of power, ive got many hours on spirit and if the survivor plays it well you either get stunned or you run out of power taking it wide allowing the window vault.
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Im an avid spirit enjoyer and even tho I think OP is in the wrong and she is in a perfect spot atm, it is bs that you cannot pinpoint her, good headphones with directional audio lets you know exactly were she is, maybe since she is rare nowadays people dont know how but it is doable.
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The only thing that really needs to be changed about blight is c33 and alch ring.
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In what way? Does he just not like her changes. I remember them not having that much a problem with her nerf. Did their opinion change over time
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It's not really that Spirit is neglected more than the fact that some of Blight's addons are just too strong.
I do agree some of her new green addons are bad and should be changed, but MDR + DCB is also stupid.
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Let’s not forget about twins…
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Spirit? Neglected? Those two words don't go together
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🤣 what? Seriously? They were so for the Spirit changes when they happened and now they don't want to play her anymore?
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i am 100% in favor of fixing any bugs that hinder spirit's or any other killer's gameplay, but spirit does not need any basekit buffs or addon buffs if anything mdr and cherry blossom should be nerfed and i wouldn't say she's neglected she's still strong the same can't be said about deathslinger or twins they got and keep getting many nerfs as if the devs hate their guts lol.
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Spirit is still a strong killer, despite her nerfs. She's just takes a lot more skill to play now. She has strong but balanced addons.
Blight, on the other hand, has a strong base kit with very strong addons, which makes him outshine any other killer (Aside from Nurse). Some of his addons are too powerful (Alchemist's Ring, Blighted Crow) so that can also make him way stronger.
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Spirit sucks now. Hard countered by Iron Will that's on at least 3 survivors every single lobby. Wraith is better
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Spirit only problem is iron will
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Um you can pinpoint her location enough for you to know which direction ( you as the survivor ) should be going in. It’s also proximity based ( means the whoosh gains intensity the closer she is to you )
she need a reduced cooldown to her power so that the FAsT MoVEmENt iN PHasE bY DEFaulT is actually useful 🙄
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Still strong but only with mother daughter ring. Spirit without addons is trash.
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I would argue make the cooldown of her power lower and if you want nerf something else, just so its like blight and you can use you power 24/7 since its really fun and makes chases not stale.
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Just use Cherry Blossoms for easy wins. Sigh. Spirit is still one of the strongest killers in game. Comparing Spirit to Blight, who still needs to be fixed first instead of getting buffs with every chapter making him even more broken is quite a joke to begin with.
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git gud
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Ok, I'm really getting why the forums got that reputation xD
Quick run down on my part
- Iron Will is bugged and makes injured survivors 100% quiet without even having breathing sounds (if u don't think that's a bug it's fine, no need to argue here, I've had that discussion way too many times, no need to repeat it)
- Addons: the addon rework removed good ones (her green duration, activation and movement speed) and replaced em with gimmicky ones which are a little bit of fun but mostly useless. At the same time they left MDR mostly untouched aka the movement speed increase and also added cherry blossom as a band aid fix against iron will. Oh u can't hear a completely silent survivor? No problem, just run a purple addon ;)
- Power Recovery: Agree, her long cooldown compared to blight and nurse is what makes her annoying to play. It's also the reason why even though she's a strong killer, most ppl in the DbD competitive community (aka tournaments) don't like playing her cause u miss a phase and suddenly u got a 15s downtime of being a 110 killer with no power. What makes blight and nurse so fun to play (and even play against) imho is the fast paced gameplay due to their quick power recovery and spamability.
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I disagree that spirit needs positive adjustments, bug fixes sure but she’s at a good power level. I’m not going to even address the comparisons to Blight, since his add ons are currently way overtuned. So I’ll address the four points you brought up about Spirit;
2&3: Bugs, not relevant to her direct power, as these just need to be fixed. So when discussing killers these shouldn’t even come up, as they’re unintended.
1 is a misuse of her power, and is on you as a player. If you are expending your entire power to catch up to a survivor and they haven’t used an exhaustion perk that’s on you. As Spirit you should never be using more than half your power unless you know you’re getting a hit. If you aren’t playing around a survivors build, that’s also on you as a player, don’t burn all your power unless you know for a fact it’s a hit/down. You can easily mind game non god pallets by going one way and reversing to get the hit.
4 is intended as far as I know, Spirit has always lost a small chunk of her power when cancelling her power early, even if you just tap phase. I assume it’s to balance out her not reviving her power to fast after ending a phase early. I could love with that being removed but it’s in no way a game changer, more a small buff to qol.
Spirit is in a great spot right now. She’s powerful with actual counterplay. She just lost her easy mode downs so people no longer play her.
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100% agree, nobody should bring up a bug that has been in the game since 2016
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saying 1 miss use of power is on you as a player isnt accurate at all. you are correct to say dont use all ur power and u should use about half but thats only on healthy players, you hit them, they speed off, you use all ur power to catch them. now here is the issues you fin- they can dh and ur back into 15 seconds being useless, they reach a god pallet or a strong pallet you cant outplay with 20% power left and ur back into recovery. they reach a window and hold forward as most windows have a long wall to burn the rest of ur power away. or quite an often one you get to where they should be and hear literally nothing since they have iron will so you need to guess and ur back into 15 cooldown. with the time ive spent on spirit its rare is miss a phase unless i get robbed from it or im forced to break something. buff her recovery speed. its not a skill issue if you miss ur phase. sometimes it is but when its greeted with a dh or anything else its very boring
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Spirit is fine. Also doesn't make sense to compare her to Blight and Nurse.
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at what point did i compare her to nurse. the dbd forums everyone :)
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I actually agree with the comparison with blight: proves that somebody is in real need of a nerf
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If someone dead hards your power and you’re left with zero power left, that is on you as a player. Dead hard sucks for killers, but it’s by far the most popular perk in the game, and if you’re not playing around it that’s again, on you. To me if you’re burning all your power to catch up to an injured survivor you’re doing it wrong, unless you know for a fact you can get the down. It’s like making a prediction blink as nurse and missing, it’s a misplay by the killer. As for iron will there are a lot of ways to play around it, such as grass, footsteps, or where scratch marks end. Once you know a survivor has iron will you need to position to play around it. All this comes down to a killer not adapting to what survivors have brought as perks.
Bringing it up is fine, but it is a bug, and affects all killers, not just Spirit so it’s irrelevant to her specific balance.
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you talk about iron will saying footsteps and grass. ye ofc no #########. i have hundreds and hundreds of hours on spirit with a very high end audio setup, saying "its on you" and ignoring my points show either you have never played spirit or dont play killer, you say if im using all my phase to chase an injured survivor im doing it wrong? ok so i hit them, they run and then what do u want me to do? not use my power and run after them? use half my power and not catch them for no reason? nothing you say makes sense
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I have played plenty of Spirit, in fact I was a huge supporter of her when she released and everyone said she was trash. If they have iron will you have to track them differently, just like any other killer. If you are going to blind phase and hope for them to make sounds with iron will then yes, you are doing it wrong, you need to force them to areas that are easy for you to track. Secondly when you land a hit you are in 2 situations, 1. You got a hit without using your power, or very little of it so it comes back by the time your weapon wipe is over. If that's the case your whole point of being unable to get a hit as a 110 killer is invalid, because you just did. Regardless you should then walk after them and get to a position to use your power to get a down. The only time you should insta phase after a hit is if you have MD ring or know there is no dead hard available to them, which should guarantee the down. If you are full phasing in a situation other than those 2 after a hit, you are playing Spirit sub-optimally. 2. You get a hit on a healthy survivor after a phase, so you have to walk after them anyway. In that case you once again want/need to walk after the survivor, and shouldn't phase until it is advantageous for you.
To me it sounds like you just want the old insta win phase Spirit back, which I do not. She is strong in her current state, and besides bugs needs no positive adjustments. Perks that counter her also counter ALL the killers, and that is a survivor perk balance issue, not a Spirit issue.
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tbh it seems like you didn't adapt. Pallets now need to be mindgamed with her. They hear you from left, they go right and drop the pallet, expect it and force the drop but go to the other side early enough, you are still at 170% movement speed and they are stuck in animation.
Also why don't you list the power recharge addons as strong if you think power recharge is such a big issue? There are several inconsistencies in your argumentation, some have already been pointed out by others
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I barely see spirits that use their power entirely. Some on stream even go out of their power quickly on purpose to get a read on survivor movement and have better guesses next attempts. Even I barely use up the entire power bar and I don't play spirit that much. Empty power is normally resulting in a miss because you didn't find the survivor in time. This is about power management
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I will never understand why people saying she's "in a good spot" say this. Why does butchering a killer to where no one hardly plays them mean "They're in a good spot"?
"She lost her easy mode downs" Name one pvp game besides DBD where your actions aren't 'Heads or Tails' and the coin always lands on whatever side you say?
Misuse of her power? I'm sorry but you can't 100% place the blame on the player especially when
- Sounds are drowned out by chase music
- IW literally making survivors non-existent
- Survivors receiving way too much information to counter her
She has no mind games anymore. They said you needed a good pair of headphones to play Rin Yamaoka. That's all you really need to counter her now. Survivors even screaming nerf her strongest add on combo even though that combo is why she does well. But let's gut her even further than have survivors question why she isn't used anymore.
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If you think Spirit is "gutted" you aren't very good at the killer. She went from the undisputed 2nd best killer to top 5, and that isn't even debatable. You can 100% still mind game survivors, they just have a chance against her phase now. At mind gameable pallets you can Phase one direction, go the other way and lunge and no human can react to that. She still has multiple good add ons, and some really ez mode ones too if you want to really shut your brain off while playing her. I can absolutely blame players for misusing her power and then whining she's bad now. If you know they have IW you need to play around that. Position in places that footsteps are loud, or there is high grass. If they stop running every time you phase cut your phase short. The Spirit is still incredibly strong, she just lost the phase ez win. Look at nurse, she's statistically one of the least played and successful killers, yet is undisputedly the best killer in the game. If you are failing to perform as Spirit, that is on you as a player not adapting to her changes and wanting ez mode phase back. She has all the tools she needs to succeed in a trial.
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must feel like a god stomping noob survivors, any good survivors can easily mind game a spirit, with iron will spirit now has to guess but I guess it fine if it a killer, but if survivor have to guess it’s unfair and spirit need nerf lol. I 4K with trapper and billy I guess they don’t need a buff lol 😂
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how are you going to say Spirit is Neglected, Spirit is still OP. Now you dont see people getting free easy win with her so they let her go. But as a Spirit main she is still on top 5 easy.
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Or shockingly killer isn't that hard when using one of the best killers in the game. Maybe having a brain while playing killer and not just holding M2 W gets you kills.
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Wait, your actually sweating against noob survivors and still get stomp by swf because any good survivor can just hear her coming and react lol.
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And any good killer can use the information survivors have to mindgame them back, again smart players don’t hold W into survivors. I think that’s out of your comprehension though.
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Ah, my bad. It was like 4am where I live, so I was pretty out of it. Spirit is in a pretty good spot. A lot of the Spirit players were heavily reliant upon those 50-50 guessing games. With that trick gone, Spirit's balanced. If she were 115%, her power would need to be toned down.
Blight is different because you can see his trajectory. That's why Blight is 115% and Spirit isn't. Not only is Spirit invisible while phasing, she retains a small movement speed boost when exiting a phase. Being 115% would likely mess with that.
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I still do well with her, I just don't enjoy playing as/against her anymore because they literally took away what made her kit unique, and that "CHANCE against her phasing" was literally a handicap for survivor's and gives them 'ez mode'.
Play around IW? Spirit is a 110 killer meaning she has to use her power to win chases. How do you play around something that literally erases survivor's existence? That's like playing Hide and Seek with Helen Keller with her being IT
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The Iron Will bug is a sound bug and since spirit is THE sound based killer, I think it's totally fair to bring this bug up specifically when discussing spirit.
Plus I bring up this issue whenever I can, since BHVR has never recognized this bug or even talked about it in any way, so I just decide to be vocal about it and bring it up whenever it makes sense. Which in spirits case imho it does.
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Every killer uses sound to track, it’s a huge part of a killer’s toolkit. Grass moving, loud breathing, footsteps and panting from running are huge. That’s why flashlights are useless vs a good killer if you don’t have IW, they’ll just track your sounds. Spirit can be affected by it a bit more than other killers, but not so much that I feel it should be called out as a Spirit issue specifically, especially when calling for buffs to a top 5 killer.
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