Tunneling And Camping Changes With The 40 Perk Rework - Confirmed!?
From a recent thread, about DS and BT being nerfed.
"All I can say for now is hang tight. Not only have we not announced the extent of the perk changes, but we're preparing base game changes to go along with these meta changes. We are not forgetting about the reasons why the meta perks are meta." ~Peanits
Huh.
Base game changes.
That sounds...interesting.
Comments
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If BT and DS get nerfed tunneling and camping will be an even bigger issue so I hope they truly have something good planned or this will be a terrible game health update.
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This sounds like they're gearing up for the almighty Operation: Health in between the Dredge Chapter and the Resident Evil 2 chapter.
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The devs will probably need to slowly test and implement any changes to camp or tunneling separately. To remove them outright might cause a huge drop in the kill rates which in turn would require individual killer buffs to bring the #s back up and further gouge the playerbase until those changes are made.
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RESIDENT WHAT WHAT CHAPTER?
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Omg, are they finally gonna understand that gen defence is meta because gen speeds are broken? Is this a dream?
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I wouldn't get too excited, it's probably the next archive.
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It’s a chapter.
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Hah!
Interesting. I think they're trying to get lightning to strike twice.
It would be sort of cool if we get the Birkin tyrant and Wesker.
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Obviously the next killer is going to be Wario.
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I hope so. You can’t nerf BT and DS otherwise without it being a bad idea.
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There will be more information about all these changes coming up, yes there will be some base game changes which helps to address why some of these perks are meta.
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Cross server was a bad idea for this game. Controller players are not same as PC players and vice versa. I would always prefer cross progression towards cross server. So in my opinion cross server makes this game unbalanced even more.
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If they are nerfing those perks, i am expecting good early game slow-down for killers & anti-tunnel and anti-camp mechanics for survivors. If they won't do this, it is gonna be problem.
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Thanks for addressing this, I was so shocked by the announcement I didn't register the part about base game changes haha I'm much less worried about the nerfs now, really excited for this and the prestige system and everything else!
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I'm glad you're less worried!
I think a lot of people missed the part re the base changes to address why these perks are being reworked, but it's definitely going to be a major shake-up and I'm excited to share more information!
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I am not gonna lie, i am so excited for future of DbD. I am so happy finally BHVR is adressing this issues instead fixing them with perks.
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Its great that bt and maybe ds? is becoming base kit but i hope they dont forget the killer counterpart. Without some sort of corrupt base kit and some base kit gen regression/gen repair time increase the game would probably be even more frustrating for the killers.
Could you confirm for us something for the killers base kit is also in the works?
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For the love of The Entity, I hope this means that the BBQ BP bonus is getting baked in baseline.
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Honestly with the upcoming progression overhaul that may not be necessary.
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I believe BT is going to be baseline in a weaker form, because if they nerf it on the meta shake up they can get rid of Solo queue alltogether because its one of the few perks maintaning Solo queue alive (along DS).
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That's great to hear!
Yes I think people are going to like the changes, once they've got used to it. As we know, reaction to change is not always positive - you get used to playing with certain perks in a certain way...but I think the changes that we are proposing are so healthy for the game and a major shake-up which will also help freshen up the game for long term players also.
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I hope BHVR recognizes that camping and tunneling isn’t just because of generator speeds, and it’s also because of how powerful hiding is in the game.
One of the biggest advantages of SWFs with voice comms is people telling each other where the killer is, to make it easier to hide from the killer. And one of the most powerful things a survivor can do is hide near a generator where a killer is patrolling by, then trying to repair and finish the generator before the killer makes another complete patrol of the map.
One of the biggest reasons I often proxy camp is because it’s too risky to go too far from a hooked survivor. There’s no guarantee I’d find anyone if they were hiding, so it’s often a better play to be somewhat near a hooked survivor, because at least I know where that survivor is.
If changes are going to be made to encourage killers to interact with multiple survivors instead of just camping one survivor at a time, then there needs to be an equal amount of encouragement for all the survivors to interact with the killer, instead of trying to hide or avoid the killer for extended periods of time.
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The progression overhaul is going to reward people who already have a lot of time invested, but I'm not convinced that it'll help new players out all that much.
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It won't be the first time an update broke the game :p
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Gen speeds are another thing though - killers don't run double regression because it's especially fun, killers run double regression because it sucks to have a rough first chase on Badham and suddenly lose 4 gens.
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As a killer I don't have a problem with Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike, Dead Hard, or Unbreakable.
I think Borrowed Time is pretty much a necessity and should just be a normal mechanic that you can't be immediately downed again right off a hook.
Decisive Strike is fine with me because most people that take it want to use it and will deliberately run around doing nothing for a minute trying to trick you into grabbing them from a locker or picking them up again.
If I leave someone on the ground long enough for Unbreakable to to be used, then good for them. That's the point of the perk.
I think everything about Dead Hard is overblown. Too many survivors think of it as their mandatory saving grace when they have no ######### clue how to use it and any one of a number of other perks would be far more useful to them than Dead Hard.
You don't actually need any of these perks to be a good survivor that escapes Trials regularly. These perks aren't Meta because they are a necessity they are Meta because people blindly take them without thinking, don't want to bother learning how to properly loop tiles, want to unhook people immediately, and can't keep their selves from not being able to just ignore a camper and not giving them the satisfaction of people trying to run in for an unhook.
Killer Meta perks are a different story though. I don't often run generators slowdown builds on characters, if I have any of them its going to be pain resonance and that's more about finding which generator has the most progress, but without them I routinely finish matches with 1 to 0 generators left by the skin of my teeth, unless the group is just really bad and I stomp them.
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BT is only a problem when survivors use it offensively - running around setting off all my traps, for example.
DS is similar.
DH is a gigantic pain in the pants though.
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If they can set off "all your traps" in 10 seconds from being off a hook then you're placing too many traps around a hook.
Really. Using Borrowed Time "offensively" ? This is not a thing.
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Agreed
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Yes; the generator speeds need to be fixed too. Maybe there could be a mechanic where the repair speed starts out slower, but a survivor gets an increasing permanent bonus repair speed for being in chases or for getting hook states. If that happened, and camping/tunneling was nerfed, then it might encourage both sides to interact with each other more often.
It just feels so awful seeing so many posts saying that camping and tunneling should be nerfed so that the killer is forced to interact with more survivors, but at the same time saying that it’s completely fine for survivors to hide from the killer. Both sides should be encouraged to interact with the other role more often.
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Probably remove the aura part and leave it as bp only.
We all know, standing behind a gen, getting in a locker or getting within 40m were not enough counters to this devastating perk. /s
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I'd love for it to just be a normal thing that you get 100% BP Bonus for hooking everyone once.
Then I can finally stop wasting a Perk Slot on this annoying ass Perk.
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Yes, using it offensively.
Let's say I'm on Trapper, and have 2 key traps around Shack. BT let's you burrow straight through one. It's even nastier on Hag.
More commonly though, it's used to body block really aggressively.
This, exactly. Do the same for survivors.
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Body block "really aggressively" as in being able to take literally 1 hit for your unhooker? What's wrong with that? That's one of the benefits of the Perk and not a game changer for the killer at all.
I know its annoying trying to defend a hook when the gates are open and the unhooking survivors are going to have borrowed time, but the gates are open man, you've lost.
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Yes, that's the problem.
One bodyblock at a crucial time can completely turn the game, or convert a 2k into a 1k or a 1k into a 0k.
The endgame should matter more for survivors, and BT negates that.
I get why BT is needed, but if it's going to become basekit or what-have-you, it's going to need a look.
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I don't see the point of buying the game on PC just to play with controller.
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I bet DS and BT will become baseline but in a weaker version.
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Well this is where we're fundamentally going to disagree. I don't find that to be a "problem" at all. Taking the hit for your unhooker while you have endurance from BT is just the smart play to get away from the killer at the hook.
In these instances, I'd just continue after the person who has BT and slug them. If you want to use your endurance to body block, then you can't accuse me of tunneling.
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In DbD? No.
But a lot of other games (musou games in particular) are awful on k+m.
Yeah, we aren't going to see eye to eye on this one.
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Tell us please noed is going to be nerfed too, please
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DH is by far the best perk for survivors right now and no, don't tell me "it's easy to bait", it's not baitable if used correctly. If you only play against 2k+ hours players like me when i play my mains then you're gonna see how powerful it is if it gives you another loop. It's so frustrating if you play M1 killers and mindgame someone only to get deadharded to the window or pallet....
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I didn't say it couldn't be used effectively. I am saying *most players* don't use it effectively. Yes, when you get up in MMR and you're playing against very experienced survivors and they bring it they're going to know how to make the best use of it.
But that's not most players.
That is not most players by far.
More people take it, because they think they are supposed to, without knowing how to optimally use it, than take it and get its worth out of it.
Honestly the game would be better off without it. Just for the sake of all of the players that are wasting a perk slot on it because they don't know any better and don't use it effectively.
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Can we have a time frame? (for the information, not the changes themselves)
I like the changes already explained in the stream, way more than I expected. But the game changes about the meta are the most important ones IMHO. I'm certainly not the only one very eager to know more about them.
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Yes, because i think they are only talking about the survivor experience.
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Post edited by DangerScouse on1
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I did say I wanted to see actual game changes in the stream, but idk how I feel about them being due to perks.
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100% agreed. This should be basekit (to encourage not tunneling).
We're Gonna Live Forever BP bonus should also be basekit, to promote protection hits and safe rescues, especially in solo queue.
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You don't need to be a rocket scientist to press 'E' for distance, or when the right light reaches a certain intensity.
Dead Hard is an excellent perk even when used imperfectly, and devastating when used right.
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They could just add kNm to console but that won't happen.
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Will these changes address why everyone is using gen slowdown perks to prevent gen rushing or it's just to punish killers ? if DS , BT are becoming lowkey basekit ( aka new solutions ) I hope as equally killer perks will have basekit alternatives too.
Post edited by BadZilla on1
