Buff Trapper Concepts. Here we go.
I play a lot of Trapper.
- Traps should appear in lockers, not on the ground needing to be picked up. Some sort of mechanism for removing traps quickly, so they can go back into lockers for reuse.
- Survivor getting caught in a trap needs to be more impactful over the course of the game. Add negative status effect/s as basekit for getting caught in a trap. Perhaps badness increases if you or your team keep getting caught more., eg. Deep Wound, Exhausted, Exposed, Haemorrhage, Hindered, Incapacitated, Mangled, Oblivious. The most appropriate for getting caught in a trap ones.
- Similarly, consider positiive status boosts for the killer, as more traps are set off or even disarmed. eg. Bloodlust, Haste, Undetectable, Auras. Disarming a trap should have a slight drawback and offer a small balance boost to the kiiller as you are literally taking away their power.
- DH should not work over traps. This is way too abusable, particularly as the ones doing it are getting trapped less before this, simply because of who the killer is and they know to do it. Doesn't make it ok.
- Get rid of Padded Jaws. I play a chunk of nice killer and even I can't bring myself to run it close to ever.
- Maybe allow a third trap to be held by default.
Most of these changes would move Trapper up a notch in seriousness but with the still downside that you can really go a whole match without stepping in a trap - which basically negates everything.
Trapper is a lot of work to play well and even then, it might not work out if no one steps on them. Would be interested in seeing some match wide effects take place (as suggested above), so that even if you don't get trapped, there remains some sort of disadvantage generated, even if modest.
Also, a mori that uses a large trap to finish the person whole but I'd rather gameplay improvements over new animations.
Trapper Add-ons
Good current elements for resuse:
- Decrease in setting time.
- Increase in escape attempt time.
- Increase in rescue time.
- SIlent trap setting.
Rework or change or gone:
- Status effect traps - Start afresh. Some worked into basekit. Some added as additions for higher level addons.
- Makeshift Wrap - While Trapper mostly shouldn't be stepping on traps, there is a case for a change. Perhaps a short slowdown to movement speed if you step on it.
- Colouring - Should be transparent, rather than darkened.
- Disarm trap speed - Meh. Not really so useful. It makes minimal difference if it takes 4 seconds, 7 seconds, whatever, to disarm, as usually you aren't near the killer when you are doing it and the action is finished by the time the notification goes off. Use as addition to other things or remove. Would rather have disarmed traps trigger a positive status for Trapper as basekit.
- Oily Coil - I find this too niche, sort of fidgety, not always active and sort of distracts from the focus of the overall flow, so generally don't use it. Having a single so-so addon for aura for the whole character seems a little pointless. Rethink the whole aura thing for traps to be useful or nothing.
- Tension Spring / Iri Stone - Perhaps look at for minor adjustment. There are some situations where everything being open is either wasted or makes it hard to track trap usage.
- Trapper Sack - I don't know many scenarios where you wouldn't want the option of moving your traps. Maybe relook at, alongside Trapper Bag.
- Padded Jaws - Gone.
In general, add-ons should offer an enhancement of the basekit. At higher levels, I'd like to see more dangerous traps, where if you get caught, you get additional negative status effects.
Working fowards, basekit is one or two negative effects. Worse if you keep getting into traps. Addons add increasingly bad effects for survivors.
Working backwards, one example would be a purple addon allows half the traps to be Scourge Traps (like Scourge Hooks), where 4 random traps in the game offer a further nasty set of status consequences for the survivor if they interact with them. And then work down, so similar but less for green. Could even go really scary for iri and have something very nasty.
Comments
-
I came up with the same idea as you for trapper traps but here’s my version.
You start with 2 traps base. All 6 traps are not on the floor anymore but are now in lockers. When you run out of traps you go to a locker to get 2 more traps. This applies to any locker. Once you use the locker 3 times to collect all 6 traps you cannot reload at lockers anymore cause all 8 traps will be on the map now.
3 -
I would agree with most of your points here, some I think aren't necessary or some are maybe even bringing trapper to being too OP such as survivors getting status effects without addons, I love the locker idea since this stops trapper from moving across the map to get a trap and wasting precious time.
0 -
I think the traps being in a locker at the start of the match is an interesting idea. It would definitely help Trapper's early game with setting up, and I think as a previous reply said, once all the traps have been placed from the lockers, then you have to manually pick them up would balance it out. The only problem I see with this feature is that shack basement would literally be so easy to set up because of having lockers there, it would basically snowball the game depending how early someone is placed there.
I honestly feel like having him carry 2 traps basekit is fair considering if you change him to being able to get his initial traps from lockers. Having two traps as carrying capacity always allows you to be able to place one and keep one on you for chase, so it feels relatively balanced to me when I've played him. (Much better to when he was only able to carry 1, basically needed add-on back then.)
I think his add-ons aren't too bad tbh. They allow for some fun combos and playstyles. Iri stone is really powerful when you combine it with some add-ons/perks. Iri stone/Trapper bag allows you to lock down an area that you want to hold (3 gen) where it doesn't matter if survivors disarm your traps. Iri stone/coffee grounds adds some random fun in chases. Honing stone/tension spring is one of my favorite combos because it gives you value even if someone gets trapped on the other side of the map. Makeshift wrap is great to counter dead hard and can catch survivors off guard. Oily coil isn't necessarily strong, but it can come in clutch at times, especially because survivors don't see this add-on often.
I could maybe see as a buff that traps give the deep wound status if you escape from them because this does cause at least a small game delay. It also prevents survivors from popping insta heals or healing mid-chase if they escape from the trap as you try to retrieve them. Maybe resetting the heal when you step in a trap would also be a nice QOL change.
0 -
Honestly... I would not be upset at all if the anniversary killer was Trapper 2.0 and the devs spent a whole killer development cycle reinventing The Trapper's power and mori animation.
----
Regarding suggestions from OP, I don't think the Trapper should have a higher carry capacity throughout the trial, but starting the trial with 1 extra trap would be nice. (Starts the trial carrying 3 traps, basekit, but cannot pick up more traps while carrying 2 or more. Trapper Bag addon starts with 4 and cannot pick up while carrying 3 or more.)
0 -
I would advice the following changes:
- addons that are gonna be basekit: Makeshift Wrap, Lengthened Jaws
- traps blend into the suroundings by 50% (darker trap addons are reworked)
- traps are refilled at lockers
- new addons like "each time a survivor is hit a random trap resets", "everytime you hook a survivor all traps reset", "if a trap is disarmed you see the auras of all survivors for 3s" ... addons that are supporting gameplay not just twinking numbers on some actions that barely make any difference
- MAYBE: you can reset a trap outside your terror radius.
0 -
Keep padded jaws, my boi has done nothing wrong
1 -
Here are my suggestions regarding the trapper:
Base kit:
The trapper has a total of 12 traps.
10 of these traps are placed by default on any map before palettes and windows.
The trapper therefore ballad with the remaining 2 traps on him as usual.
The traps will reset automatically every 25 seconds.
Note: A killer should be able to play and get results without add-ons that's why I think my idea is viable and not too powerful for survivors.
Additional modules should be a bonus, some things not essential.
It will all work again.
0 -
This is my idea for a trapper buff.
New Ability: Trap Recall
Allows trapper to target his traps like a Mint Rag Hag, pressing the Active Ability button will cause the targeted trap to instantly return to Trapper. Additionally, if it was set it will snap closed causing any Survivors near the trap to scream revealing their location.
Ability Cooldown: 20 seconds. Scream Range: 16 meters
Ever had a trap so far out of the way you could never get it? Well, this fixes that without giving trapper instant access to all his trap as to semi-prevent omega basement camping. You could then use traps not just for turning loops off but as an information tool (are they still over there? etc).
0 -
My own thought for a simple Early-Game buff: All of the traps on the field start out active. Their locations are still RNG, 'tis true, but at least of survivors do single across them they stand a chance of actually doing something.
0 -
There are some really interesting ideas in here. Thanks to everyone for sharing.
Just wanted to touch on one area for now, which I had totally missed - Abilities. Perhaps this is the sweet spot between basekit and addons. I guess it's sort of basekit.
It obviously has to be focused on the traps themselves and has to be something that be can applied reasonably consistently. For example:
- Trap Recall - Similar to what the above poster suggests. Maybe the trap goes back into the locker "pool". Scream?
- Traps Closing - When traps are stepped into or disarmed, there is a positive for the killer. Haste? Survivors in aura radius? Gen slowdown? This is about the killer losing the ability to use their power, not the fact that they might have caused damage to the survivor.
- Keep Getting Trapped - Maybe like Sadako's videotapes, the more you get trapped, the worse it is for you. Increased bad status effects? There is a case that you should be worse off if you step in a trap 4 times, than if you step in a trap once.
- More Gens, Worse Traps - Severity of injury depends on how many gens are done. Default is just injured. After 2nd Gen done, negative status effect. After 4th Gen done, 2 negative status effects. When first gate open, instant down. Whatever the balance is.
Do a bunch of these and then test and balance to make sure it's not too OP.
*
Just a seperate note about aura and Trapper. I just don't know how convinced I am about the mechanic. If I see an aura of a survivor on the other side of the map for a few seconds, how useful is that really. By the time I get over there, so many things could have happened and I've probably interupted my flow of assessing an area to lay traps or going to pick someone up who has been trapped. And what does it even mean? Oh, there's a survivor on the other side of the map. Ok. Great. Pretty sure that's almost the entire game anyway.
If used, aura should be something connected to traps and applied consistently in a useful way.
0 -
-Traps that shoot deadly spikes if Survivors near by muwhahaha
0 -
I think there should be more types of traps to make playing as/against Trapper SUPER interesting.
That and - I keep hearing people upset that his traps are on the ground. But you know what, this wouldn't be a bad thing if they started the match open.
If there were at least a few traps that started primed and ready to catch a survivor off-guard, the player can begin to play around them before having to setup.
New traps could be:
Trapped pallets - when thrown, the pallet snaps back upright, failing to stun the killer, but it also disables the trap
Trapped windows - fast and slow vaults disable the trap, medium vaults injure healthy survivors and deep-wound injured ones.
Trapped Generators - there's a gate around a generator, takes a long time to set up. Survivors cannot touch the generator until they go through a 4 second animation to deconstruct.
Trapped Hooks - disables the hook, makes an obvious 'rope trap' in front of it that functions as a bear trap.
Trapped totems - just makes
When a survivor disables a trap killer instinct reveals them.
~
· 5 traps placed in map, 2 in hand default. All traps begin the match open and have a bias to spawn away from the walls of the realm. Can spend time to play a 3 second animation to trap a pallet, causing it to bungie back upright after being thrown – denying a stun and placing it upright once more, which disables the trap. Hooks can be trapped with a 5s animation – disabling them from being used as a sacrificial object, but turn them into rope traps, which act as normal traps extended 1m from the hook’s face. Vaults can be trapped – causing the next medium vault through it to damage a survivor – vault traps take 3s and are broken once a survivor vaults through it. Totem remains can be trapped to cause them to seem like a hex totem after a 5s animation. They take the same time to cleanse – but do not count as a cleansed totem and have no hex cleansing audio cues. Survivors take 16 seconds to escape a bear trap and 24 to escape a trapped hook, being helped by another survivor lowers this by half, required progress to escape is reduced by your luck. Whenever a survivor disarms a trap when further than 8m away, killer instinct reveals their location for 4 seconds. Generators can be trapped – playing an 6s animation to place a cage around the generator. Survivors must spend 4 consecutive seconds to remove these cages in order to regain access to the generator. The Trapper gains 5% haste whenever a survivor triggers a trap. At The beginning of the match – 5 Bear Traps spawn open, 4 Gens are trapped in cages, 3 random Vault locations are trapped, 2 Pallets are trapped, and 1 random hook is set as a trap. Spawn with 1 Bear Trap, which functions as a ‘Trap Point’. Other traps can be disabled through their animations to collect additional trap points up to 16. Can place bear traps when looking towards the ground, but otherwise can interact with pallets, generators, hooks, and vaults to trap them – consuming a point and playing the setting animation. Duo trapper Mori animation, if he does not have traps – traditional Melee with machete with increased brutality, if he has traps – bear trap is incorporated into Mori animation as method of death. Injured survivors that are caught in a bear trap suffer from the Deep Wounds timer when they escape, regardless of attachments.
~
0 -
All your ideas do not include the Trapper lost forever to set and reset the traps.
This is why I maintain that:
Base kit:
At the beginning of Part 10 traps are placed throughout the childhood card windows and palettes.
All traps are reset every 25 seconds.
Trappers have these two basic traps.
It is therefore appropriate to update the add-ons around these ideas.
Furthermore the trapper could very well have special traps such as traps that are activated only when a pallet is lowered or if a generator is completed.
0 -
If you play killer you must understand the value of time is crucial and understand that my idea is viable.
0 -
The concept of trapping maps features themselves is a very interesting one. Would add a very new gameplay dimension.
Risky too. eg. Each game, one random pallet, hook, gen, totem, window is "trapped".
Trapper can see which, survivor can't. Defintely worth considering.
*
Here's a crazy idea. Trapper 2.0. SImilar to some of the ideas just a couple of posts above. The game itself is the trap. Meta killer. Everything that normally might assist the survivors to get out is now risky and might hurt them. Very interesting. Maybe even without the bear traps or they become incorporated somehow - haven't worked it through properly.
1 -
I take it this is in reply to me.
I do play killer.
Spending 8 seconds to waste 4 seconds of survivor time and ensure that they cannot 'tap' a generator is particularly powerful in certain circumstances.
Spending 3 seconds to brute force a down at a pallet is a massively good exchange in time.
Spending a few seconds to make a survivor slow vault mid-chase or take the time and position to wind up a fast vault can place the killer in an advantageous position well worth the time.
I agree that the killer's time is important - which is why traps should already be placed in the trial and survivors should be less concerned with the killer and more concerned with spending THEIR time searching out and destroying the premade traps around the map. Gives the killer a lot more time at the beginning.
Allowing the killer to spend time setting up feints and tricking survivors into dooming themselves can be not only satisfying, but highly lucrative if played properly.
House of pain giving you grief? Trap the pallet, then the upstairs window, place a bear trap in the grass on the outside stairs. Takes 7-8 seconds total, maybe even 10.
Next time a healthy survivor loops you, they throw the pallet - you hit them. They panic and run upstairs, they are confident they can beat the window trap with a fast vault, and are completely unprepared for the bear trap they step into.
Congrats, you just outsmarted a survivor and put them from healthy to Dying in less time than it took to setup your trap.
You see, setting up traps takes time. But in the hands of a capable killer - this can net some incredible gains with a good bit of foresight and skilled gameplay.
(Edit, just to clarify)
Your idea is viable. it is not bad.
Many ideas can be good and viable at the same time. No one idea has to be better than the other.
It's just fun to make ideas and discuss their effects!
Your idea is valid, my idea is valid. Everyone here in the forums has a valid opinion on what the Trapper should be like. I just want to make sure you don't think I'm dismissing you, just wanted to add.
0 -
There are essentially two elements to playing Trapper.
The first is the actual picking up, setting up, resetting, adjusting, moving, calculating, etc. the actual traps. As a gameplay feature, that's theoretically interesting but it's a significant time suck, meaning in most cases, the trapper usually only kicks in late to mid game and that's if everything works out. This is where a decent buff is needed. If Trapper is a killer that needs some time to do tasks (be that bear traps or environment traps or both) and then time to keep doing tasks, this should be made easier, as basekit. I think if the environment itself was the trap, that's a somewhat different take to the more cumbersome bear traps.
Then there's the actual killing and hurting and damage. By the virtue of you might step into a trap or you might not, the risk / reward ratio needs to be kicked up a notch. Not so it's overpowered, but if you step in something (trap / environment) it's stronger than what is essentially now just getting a hit.
Trapper should feel like a killer where you know there is a ton of risk in the game. Not necessarily damage, but the risk of damage, as opposed to say Nurse or now Legion where you pretty much know it's going to be hit after hit after hit and your team is going down pretty quickly.
Trapper can be satisfying to play but the overall risk/reward ratio needs to be kicked way up. If you come into a game with Trapper, you should be like "uh oh, gotta be super careful with every interaction" and that if you do something wrong it could hurt you and sometimes if you don't, you might get hurt too.
*
Maybe there's even a second whole character in here. Environment Trapper. Female. Older. Relative of current Trapper. Devs - keep me in the loop. Buff current character though.
0 -
Here's what I'd change
* Disarming a trap takes 2 additional seconds - this would make it significantly less productive / more dangerous to disarm traps, especially nearby the Trapper. No change to the amount of time it takes to rescue a teammate in a trap.
* 2 of the 6 traps begins the trial activated - RNG, but the fun sort that could provide early game misdirection towards survivors with the added risk of some early injures.
* Increase the radius a trap activates slightly - The ability to sidestep a trap placed in the center of an average-width corridor significantly defangs the danger of traps, especially at high levels. Trappers relying on the vacuuming effect of dropping a palette in order to secure traps on survivors is a major indicator of this.
* Make the existence of some kind of "low-medium height brush" object a standard for all maps and include them on maps that currently lack it. (Piles of trash, paper waste for indoor maps?)
0 -
Just watched Otz's video about trapper addons - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEcyf7__djA&t=155s
Don't agree with absolutely everything, but pretty decent points overall. There are two takeaways for me.
Dead Hard and traps. Dead Hard has to be able to not ignore traps.
But really the main thing is the lack of consistency. So and so is a good on a trap IF..... so and so works well IF..... so and so can work when.... almost everything.
The main inconsistency should be if a survivor steps on the trap or doesn't.
If they do, then something bad happens (more than now, perhaps escalating). If they don't, something might happen, but maybe not much. Lots of ideas above.
I was playing before and had an injured David using No Mither step on a trap, but not near me. They got out, I was too far away and doing another task and nothing happened. I had another game before, spent ages just going around picking up traps and laying them by which time 2 gens were done and I hadn't seen anyone. Another game where I had to go to the other side of the map to get 2 traps because the gens were done there and no one would be going back. Just... pointless waste.
Trapper can be a good killer but is way too inconsistent. You have to know how to do all the step up AND then hopefully someone steps in it.
Rework the entire base killer experience to make the trap interaction much more consistent and then have addons that buff it a little or add interesting side effects. Basekit trapper with abilities alone should be decent enough. Fricking magic traps, sheesh. Trapper should be about the real risk that something pretty bad might happen.
How difficult can this be.
0 -
Consistency and risk.
Consistency from the generator effects.
Risk from the trap effects.
New Trapper Abilities
Generators [Concept - adapt variables as needed]
Traps are made from the same material as the generators and therefore have a relationship, which affects the traps in the game. As the gens are completed, the trap environment becomes more dangerous. These are meant as cautionary slow downs and finishing generators adds to the risk that you might set off a trap as you are going around the map.
After the first generator is completed, there is a period of "Exhausted Status".
After the second generator is completed, also add a period of "Blindness Status".
After the third generator is completed, also add a period of "Hindered Status".
After the fourth generator is completed, also add a period of "Oblivious Status".
After the fifth generator is completed, also add a period of "Incapacitated Status".
Traps [Concept - adapt variables as needed]
You should be more damaged the greater number of times you step in traps, while also acknowledging a trap is more damaging than a hit. Perhaps tracked similarly to the circular UI states that a number of characters have - Trapper's is a trap slowly closing.
After you step in your first trap, you are injured and Mangled.
After you step in your second trap, you are injured, Mangled and Haemorrhage.
After you step in your third trap, you are injured, Mangled, Haemorrhage and Deep Wound.
After you step in your fourth trap, you are injured, Mangled, Haemorrhage, Deep Wound and Exposed.
After you step in your fifth trap, you are insta-down.
After you step in your sixth trap, your UI trap status is full and you are dead.
I don't know the exact balance here - the devs should go off how many people actually get trapped per game and then balance. You might need to go slightly more damage earlier. Also if 99% of players never reach 5-6 traps, then it's not the right balance for the ability - should be a regular but reasonably small % of survivors dying by being trapped multiple times.
I had the Doctor's Madness in here too at medium - higher levels (kicking in around the 3rd-4th trap), but just wasn't sure. It's an interesting possibility though - delusion from blood loss. Well worth considering.
0 -
Just returning to this briefly upon further reflection and playing and going against the killer.
You really should never be hitting 6 traps and even 5 is pushing it. Still have an increasing level of bad status effects from traps, but perhaps insta down after you step in your fourth trap and dead after you step in your fifth.
A new idea is if you are injured and get stuck in a trap, it should be far more serious than now. Either get insta downed (as in you are already hit and then hit again, logical) and/or you get a raft of bad status effects immediately. This would be suitable and not OP because generally most people will heal after getting trapped and it is generally less common to be trapped while injured. l was in a game recently where an injured David got caught in a trap that I couldn't reach immediately and he got out and nothing happened. Very irritating. The trap is Trapper killing when he is not there.
I recall another game recently where someone was running a couple of top tier perks but because the conditions weren't or were rarely met, they made little to no difference to the game. It was sort of silly. Once the character gets its overhaul, revisit all the addons again.
So, Trapper can have trap effects that change depending on:
- the number of gens done [Adds a level of risk for people not getting trapped - important.]
- the number of times you step in them [The more you are getting your legs hacked into, the gradually worse your injury should be.]
- whether or not you are injured when you step in them [If you are injured and get hit by a trap again, it should be conseqeuential.]
Put all these changes on and then balance them steadily down until you've got the right levels, put traps in lockers and a way of interacting with them better and we're good to go.
0 -
Just to add.
I might be ok if the rework did not include effects when the number of gens got done but would need a massive buff to trap movement activities, injured survivors going down when trapped and multi-trapped being more serious. And a complete addon overhaul.
That might be ok. Not absolutely top tier but a very solid boost. Maybe that is the right balance.
Still doesn't solve that nothing happens if you never get trapped... need to play test; can't fully judge it. Making traps easier to interact with is better, but still doesn't actuallly add greater risk if you aren't actually stepping in them - that's where I was going with the gen influence. Or maybe it's ok that you might just never get trapped and that's the game.
0 -
I think traps starting set plus the ability to recall traps is enough for trapper, he doesn't need much more in terms of buffs, simply because he became thicc af in the dating sim
0 -
I'm playing against a Legion and there are 3 injured within the first minute sometimes. Nurse can hit me from far away through walls. Plague I am frequently ill. Myers can have me exposed for really long periods very early on. Bubba can instadown you easily. Trapper might be at one injury in the first few minutes - might but frequently not and still it's just a hit and then it's toss of coin with the late game.
As a power, a trap is simply a stationary hit, that maybe affects you. Placing a series of stationary hits, more quickly is not enough. Essential, but not enough.
As well as what you suggest, as a minimum, stepping in a trap needs to become far more of a consequential power than just a basic injury. This will make him a much better killer but still not super top tier as still, if you aren't getting stuck in a trap, then... not much.
Post edited by keepingitril on0 -
If it's decided that the traps aren't getting buffed themselves, then give me more traps (8 - 10/12?) and make them WAY easier / faster to work with.
Traps everywhere and the ability to move them quickly. Stepping in a trap while injured should down you (should be already a thing) and maybe there could be some level of negative status, the more times you step in them and/or as gens are done (traps should be given consideration to be "powered", more than just a hit and a small random delay).
That would actually be workable.
Post edited by keepingitril on0
