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Arguments against nerfing Dead Hard
'I really like Dead Hard because it's op. I use it to fix my mistakes. Let me do some mental gymnastics to try to strawman or deflect the criticisms of Dead Hard so my perk can remain OP.'
There, I summarized every argument I've seen so far for keeping Dead Hard in its current state. Feel free to link to this or copy and paste if you're trying to defend Dead Hard and don't want to waste time typing. No credit needed.
Comments
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You forgot to add “it’s needed against Nurse or you die in 20 seconds” which is a very fair argument.
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it is literally impossible to counter unless they are using it to dodge hits, which they dont anymore
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Stretching a teensy bit, eh?
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Could you explain to us how to counter DH for distance?
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Yes, that is 100% my motivation. That is why I have argued on multiple threads that tunneling and camping (along with gen speeds) needs to be nerfed and have expressed support multiple times for BT, Kindred and DS being basekit.
It is also why my current pending bug report has to do with 'Left For Dead' not triggering since that is such an easy achievement to get, especially for people who only play killer. That is definitely consistent with your explanation.
An alternate explanation is that I actually do play both sides and recognize that both killers and survivors have legitimate complaints and, no matter how you try to spin it, Dead Hard is overpowered. If Sprint Burst were so powerful, then why do so few people use SB at high MMR? The reason why Dead Hard is so over-used is because it provides way too much reward for way too little risk. Nerf it and then adjust things as necessary to compensate for the drop in survival rates.
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I always imagine you barely holding back your tears while reading all these copium comments of yours <3
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I think a lot of people need it, but for 20 seconds? Certainly not mandatory.
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Instead of going though all the arguments once more ...
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The flaw with this thinking is you actually think it is good gameplay to have to ASSUME someone has this perk.
It's not.
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Dead hard only works if you play bad as killer in general. Stop bloodlusting pallets forever like a maniac, break them asap. Don’t chase a survivor for too long if you know you can’t catch them fast. Learn survivor movements and bait out dead hard asap. Chase survivors that are aggressive on gens, not the ones that are doing totems or chests.
Enjoy this free guide on how to be successful as killer.
3 -
Nurse and Artist make me feel like I need dead hard.
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Its crazy because.... ive seen good survivors run nurses for close to a minute when the nurse was well known for being good.
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Nerf DH and nerf Nurse. Problem solved
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Sadly too many survivors think it's necessary, exploit it for a loop reset, or that escaping from chase isn't possible without receiving a love tap first.
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Post edited by DangerScouse on4
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Literally I’ve never seen anyone say what the OP said. These forums are just downgrading by the day aren’t they? Yikes.
Continue to complain even though they just said they are going to be looking at it, because that is what you guys do best. Complain.
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Dead hard is dead hard. I'd like to see it butchered.
It is easy to get around unless they use it to gain the distance which will probably prolong the chase at a loop.
Hence my stance on destroy the loops.
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If Dead Hard was used for just dodging hits, I'd suck it up and admit that I got fooled into swinging at a Dead Hard. But its most frequently used for distance, meaning most chases just get straight up reset because the Survivor presses E and makes it to a pallet they otherwise would not have made it to. The problem with Dead Hard is that it is fundamentally ######### -- the perk'd need to be REWORKED to not be a pain. So, if Dead Hard is to get changed, it'll either just get a distance nerf and not change much at all, or not be the Dead Hard we know right now.
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Literally everything you just said was countered and destroyed in the video two posts above your post.
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At this point I can't wait for them to nuke DH so killers will stop whining about it.
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Just because your favorite YouTuber made a video, doesn’t mean they’re right.
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I feel that's more of an argument for nerfing nurse, unless we accept that people who play m1 killers should have to go against DH every match just because a different killer exists.
It ends up pretty cyclical too - "I have to run the meta because it's the only way to deal with nurse" "I have to play nurse because it's the only way to deal with all these second chance perks" etc etc
Also good to see you back btw @TheGannMan :)
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The video is worth a watch because it disproves every argument you could come up with for not nerfing Dead Hard
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it's okay that dead hard can dodge basic attacks, but stuff like hatchets and being used for distance? how do you counter they just zooming to pallet when you otherwise would have hit them. Also there are 4 survivors, if they all have dead hard that's so much more time you spend in chases
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Nah as long as I’m playing against cherry blossom + mother daughter ring spirits, nurse etc nothing can convince me to nerf dead hard.
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Nurse and Dead Hard may have damaged the game's balancing more than the likes of Legion have, especially due to the both of them causing a vicious cycle of constantly annoying people and making them play in less fun ways as the less fun ways also happen to be what counters Nurse and Dead Hard. At least, that's my opinion on things.
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An incredibly easy way to fix Dead Hard is remove the invulnerability, and add a 3 second period where you cannot vault or pull down pallets after using it. That way it would purely be a tool to dodge attacks, maybe you could even gain a speed boost for a second or so if you manage to dodge an attack with it.
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Nice whataboutism, good to know discussing with you is pointless
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Dont forget tracking DS, Unbreakable, if other survivors had flashlights, hookstates etc.
Funny that survivors arent expected to track as much and get hook states, hexes etc.
Oh right, soon(tm) they might get "what are the other bums doing"-icons.
I notixed myself often mentioning that killers have been conditioned by the existence,not usage, of certain survivor perks, unlike survivors who cant wrap their heads around cleansing for noed. Watch streamers like otz being surprised when NOT getting DS'd lol.
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Don’t care + have a nice day.
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There is definitely a difference between the amount of things the Killer needs to know, versus the amount of things the Survivor needs to know. While people calling out hacks when they see Mad Grit is really funny, it also shows that Survivors straight up don't know what some Killer perks do -- not to say either side should be expected to know what every single #########' perk does down to the tiniest details, but you should at least know enough about each perk to not accuse someone using them of hacking while having hundreds of hours in the game.
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Didn't the kill rate increase in high MMR? Since DH gets used exponentially more at higher MMR and the kill rate goes up, that just shows how necessary this perk is for survivors. This perk is stuck in the balance of the game, if it gets a big nerf it's just gna be 4k games nonstop. DH is OP compared to other survivor perks, yet it's a necessary evil that keeps a bit balance. The problem with DBD is that the game is heavy killer sided looking at the stats BUT the 'balance' of having fun is far in favour of survivors.
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It's always fun getting to watch TTV vods back after playing against them with lesser-known perks. Dark devotion is a good choice for it.
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No, their arguments make them right. Of which he clearly states EIGHTEEN MINUTES of them.
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One busted mechanic does not justify another busted mechanic.
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Now that you mention it I cannot think of a single Killer mechanic or perk I have to "count out" in my head.
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the DH pallet thing is kinda BS
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This has got to be the one of the most ignorant defenses of Dead Hard I've ever seen.
Dead Hard works no matter how you play as a killer.
You can cut a loop short by outplaying the survivor and they can still Dead Hard just as easily as a survivor who loops a killer until Bloodlust 3. "Don't chase if you know you can't catch them fast" ? Yeah, okay. Dead Hard can still get someone to a vault or pallet and turn a chase that shouldn't have taken too long into a chase that does take too long regardless of how well the Killer and Survivor played.
There are ways to trick people into using Dead Hard but that only works against inexperienced survivors, and it's still annoying to have to do that. To have to assume that everyone has it. To have to be running right behind a survivor within striking distance, which means you have already won the chase, and still have to play a little Dead Hard mindgame regardless to see if you're allowed to hit the Survivor who has lost their chase.
The game would be healthier for both sides without this perk. It should just be removed completely.
Escaping the killer or wasting the killers time should be about actually running them through the environment and looping them properly. But getting caught and hit by them should be more inevitable than it is.
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That’s objectively false. Even if every pallet were removed Dead Hard would still be strong for its ability to reach vaults the survivor otherwise wouldn’t get to in time and also to dodge hits based on killer animations.
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It doesn’t mean they’re wrong either.
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I would agree with a dead hard nerf if busted killer mechanics get nerfed too.
0 -
Dead hard needs and will get nerfed.
However I believe Blight and Nurse will also need changes after this too.
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I agree with this but not only DH , i mean playing against a Nurse w/out not a single Exhaustion perks in general makes a huge difference.
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Like what?
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really good video, thanks for posting the link
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That’s an easy one:
Spirits Dried Cherry Blossom + Mother Daughter Ring Add ons
Nurse
Blight
Pyramid Head
Myers Perma Evil Within 3
The Twins (Victor)
The Artist
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Okay so you've got nothing. I thought you actually had something real in mind.
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I have something real in mind, read the list again. This time slowly.
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You've got 1 honest complaint, 2 generalizations, and the rest are skill issues
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That’s your opinion 🤷♂️
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