Developers: What about Face-Camping and Dead Hard saves?
I want to preface this by saving I don't use Dead Hard. I'm a pretty consistent Sprint Burst user when I play survivor. When I play Killer, Dead Hard doesn't really bother me.
However, I do have 1 concern with the Dead Hard nerf for developers...
What will the developers be changing about Face-Camping so that survivors have a chance to successfully make saves without Dead Hard?
Currently, the standard way to make a save as a survivor on a Face-Camping killer is to....
- Fake a grab, then take a hit
- Unhook the survivor and allow that survivor to take a BT hit, so they have a Sprint Burst away from the hook
- Finally, the unhooking survivor will Dead Hard away and hope there's a jungle gym nearby.
I could care less about Dead Hard, except for this very specific strategy that survivors have to follow to make a successful hook save from a face-camping survivor.
Will there be significant enough nerfs in face-camping to allow for survivors to make saves against face-campers after the Dead Hard is removed/nerfed?
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(I guess I have one more concern. How about Nurse and Dead Hard. Dead Hard is currently the only real counter survivors have against Nurse. But still, more important is Dead Hard saves against Face Campers.)
Comments
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BT is better against face camping.
If you're relying on DH to make saves consistently idk what to tell you.
Your point about Nurse is valid tho
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I don't run Dead Hard, I run Sprint Burst. However, when I have a face-camping killer, I can't make a successful save with Sprint Burst. It's Dead Hard users that I see make successful saves and the save is very formulaic and requires very specific timing.
I can make saves against regular killers fine, it's the face-camping ones I have no chance of making a successful save with Sprint Burst, it's always a hook-trade at that point.
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That’s a good point. I also wonder what the developers would say about bubba facecampers.
“legit strategy” lmao
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If someone with BT is trying to body block me, then I'm going to tunnel them back onto the hook. Why on earth would I give someone a BT hit, then let them just run away and heal?
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Ok so there is a flaw there in #2. Depending on where the killer is, the swing is gonna miss the unhooked survivor and catch the one thats doing the rescue. So either the killer engages chase with the saved survivor or the killer camps the downed survivor and now we are back to square one.
The best and most effective method I have seen and experienced is when a team comes together and goes in at the same time. The killer needs a distraction or someone takes a hit and moves out of the way while someone else gets the save.
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For the thousands time they work on a face camping solution because they also want facecamping gone. They are mostly cool with proxy camping but they want to make a base game mechanic to help against facecamping but it just needs time to make a good working solution and not some hasty made band aid that can be abused
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In my opinion the entire hook mechanics need a rework but I guess that’s too much work.
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In most cases DH saves don't work anyways from what I've seen. It's not really hard to predict as killer as long as you're patient and wait a second or two, unless there's a pallet right next to the hook or something. Some killers will not wait and will just insta-swing into the BT, but that's their mistake.
As for your concern regarding Nurse, yeah, she should be nerfed.
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Saying you are working on a face-camping solution and having a face-camping solution ready for when you disable/nerf Dead Hard (the current face-camping solution) is two different things.
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Hook trading is a thing, not every save is supposed to be successful or easy.
Are people really bemoaning having to hook trade now? That’s one way to buy time against camping killers.
“I have to hook trade against camping, how can we set it up so I can just always unhook for free without having to change my build or get hooked myself”
This one dumbfounds me as much as the guy who said “I never feel safe as survivor”… you’re not meant to feel safe as survivor that’s why you’re trying to escape, it’s not safe in the fog.
Lastly there is a big audio cue when the nurse blinks learn to juke it like any other killer swing. Yeah it can be harder to do than a basic M1 killer.
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But the thing is you only pick that one aspect of DH. DH has many more frustrating unfair aspekts and that's why it's gonna be reworked. And I know camping sucks but you can send your regards to the test survivor that needed 5 minutes to exploit the hell out of bhvrs last attempt to fix facecamping.
The devs said when they rework the perks they want to rework base game aspects at the same time because they know why certain perks are meta and they know they can't just nerf bt ds and DH without working on the reasons why the people use them so much same goes for the killer perks.
We certainly will see base game changes to tunneling camping and gen speeds/regression
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I wouldn't miss teammates unhooking without BT and then dead harding out the way so the unhooked person goes down again.
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This scenario could happen with proxy camping too, so it shouldn't be nerfed just because it overlaps with face-camping. Sometimes a killer isn't next to a survivor, but sees someone in the distance running towards the hooked survivor, so the killer runs back to the hook too. That is perfectly valid, and isn't face-camping, and shouldn't be punished. Survivors aren't entitled to free saves just because some killers plant themselves next to a hooked survivor.
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“I have to hook trade against camping, how can we set it up so I can just always unhook for free without having to change my build or get hooked myself”
With Dead Hard and Borrowed Time and an amazing amount of precise timing and luck, there are sometimes a chance that both survivors will escape without a hook trade. A lot more times there will be either a hook trade or both survivors going down.
This is completely fair, considering all the killer has to do is stand in front of a hook and stare at the survivor, correct? You would definitely consider this fair since there is so much coordinated effort between 2 survivors to manage to get this off, correct? You don't think that a killer, whose only skill is sitting in front of a hook staring at a survivors face should always come out better on the exchange that requires much more skill on the survivors side that the killers side, correct?
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Life's not always fair.
You're team that's your advantage here, learn to utilize it rather than ask for freebees because you can't.
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People seem really upset in this topic.
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That is completely true but we still don't have a timeline or details on either. I understand why you're concerned and it's good to say it is a concern but asking for details right now could be premature.
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Don't forget Desperate Measures with fully injured team you'll have enough time to dead hard the second hit, unless they're using STBFL.
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Why would they address such skillful play? Face camping is here to stay so killers can express themselves.
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That’s where Dead Hard can be pretty reasonable against the Bubba basement lord, they do know why the meta is meta hopefully base changes can fix these reliances
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There are plenty of ways the devs can dissuade camping after the perk nerfs. Let's not take away the fact that dead hard is still overused and way to powerful. Dead Hard does have legitimate uses that counter camping but that's in the minority.
Let the devs test what they are testing and let these perks finally rest from being in EVERY game.
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Altruismus kills. If the killer camps, just let it happen and do gens. Kindred helps more than BT in solo Q, even better with Open Handed as many killers proxy camp alot, esp. when they don't use gen defense perks. Also remember that every surv has 2 x 1 minute on the hook, so make that time count and don't rush unhooks. Many solos will DC / kill themselfes on hook because they see no one on gens, not because the killer camps. If the killer camps early, the other 3 surv should sit on 3 different gens and be aware about the classic 2K NOED aka EVERYTHING IS OKAY, tx for your data!
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