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Do Killer meta perks further reinforce gen rushing?
Killers were granted so many options of applying passive gen pressure that there is hardly any room for Survivors to mess around. Nobody cleanses Totems to prevent NOED cause it takes too long (and cause there is Circle of Healing users). Hardly anybody searches Chests.
The vast majority of Survivors are just focused on slamming Gens cause if they don't gen rush - gens will be destroyed to the ground by Pain Resonances, Pops, Ruin, Jolts, and each time explosion happens, Dead Man Switch can kick in, and there is also Deadlock.
Prove Thyself got increased in popularity significantly to counter those killer perks. Gotta finish those gens one by one really fast to prevent significant regressions.
Gen slow down perks are aimed to combat obscene gen speeds, but by implementing such perks devs also make Survivors even more keen on repairing Gens. You can only counter massive gen regressions by gen rushing even harder.
Do you think that Killer meta perks further reinforce gen rushing?
Comments
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One side's meta justifies the other side's meta, which justifies the former meta, ect.
The second one side stops rushing gens is when someone gets hard camped and tunneled at 5 gens with ruindyingresonance, and when someone runs a meme build playing nice they get all their gens done in 4 minutes.
Not changing any time soon.
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The gen slowdown meta exists because gens go too fast. It takes 80 seconds for a single survivor to do one gen. You're against four people. You might as well not even play at high MMR if you aren't going to run at least corrupt intervention. Coconutrts is one of the best huntress players in the world and has been getting destroyed in high MMR games when he doesn't run some kind of gen slowdown. If a high level player like that is struggling while playing a strong killer then there is a problem with the gen speeds. Same thing happens with Otz.
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too much attention is being given to these "content creators". Can we start looking at the average gamer, rather than someone who has no-lifed DBD into a job - make no mistake, they carry water for BHVR
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Absolutely. If you do not gen rush and they are running triple or quadruple regression, you are going to have a bad time.
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Not really its mostly The Killer or the addons that makes survivors rush gens, like if its a Bubba you won't see anyone running around trying to body block for their team mate, the best they could do is rush gens, and if its a Nurse the surely would rush gens the first time they hear that screeching noise when she blinks.
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Absolutely. You can’t afford to waste time against killers running 4 slowdowns. But likewise that same killer can lose quickly without them, so it goes both ways.
Imo, when they do nerf regression perks this summer, prove thyself should be changed as well.
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I have never understood the idea that survivors are thesehive minded altruistic players who would all ignore gen efficacity if only killers were weaker. As if a survivor player is staring at a gen and going "hmmm Im NOT gonna press M1 on this just because we are playing a trapper". The far more likely scenario is they will get the gen to 99% before tee-hee bullying the trapper killer and getting out.
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Mmm. I dunno. One of the things I like to do at least a few game a day is to play wraith with shadow dance and serpent, plus chase perks (enduring, bamboozle, spirit fury, BBQ), aka, a fun build, but like 90% of the time this just kinda makes the survivors smash the gens even harder.
I find it hard to justify the survivors playing in that fashion against a wraith with this build, but they genuinely just want to do gens and leave. They don't even want to be chased.
I mean I still have fun regardless of the outcome, I do this to just chase survivors without a worry in the world, but I don't think that whether the killer is bringing heavy regression or not regression at all influences the survivors behavior in the majority of cases. And no, I don't hate survivors, I perceive them for what they are: the counterpart to my killer and a corner-store to killer's enjoyment
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I don’t get it, what are you meant to do other than do gens as efficiently as your situation allows?
Finishing gens is literally how survivors win the game, why do you make it sound like there’s external pressure from the killer forcing you to do them when that is the main goal anyways? As in, no matter what happens your best play is always to do gens as fast as possible anyways.
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Just because someone makes money out of playing this game doesnt mean they arent good players. Many content creators are the best or really good killers in this game or survivors.
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Ruin does enforce genrushing because you cant let go the gen or it will regress to 0 in no time, at least with PGTW the Killer may or not may kick your gen but Ruin will always affect it.
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Gen rushing isnt a thing, its what survivors should be doing in the first place.
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If you think survivors won´t gen rush when killers aren´t using any slowdown perks. Then i strongly suggest you to try playing killer without them.
I wish you a lot of fun.
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That is not what he is saying. What he is saying is that gen regression perks are bad because you have to hammer gens as fast as possible or they will regress losing all progress. Gen regression encourages getting gens finished as fast as possible.
Corrupt Intervention is one of the best designed perks in the game in my opinion in that it just slows survivors down and stars chases earlier and not in a boring way like "25% slower repair."
God I love Corrupt Interventions design...
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Then you haven't played trapper at all. you don't know even how many 4k's i got just by camping 1 person in the basement lol
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that's your mindset but that's not the actual reality. Because it's absolutely true that depending on:
A. What killer I'm against and,
B. What perks they're using
My playstyle complete changes. If it's a Blight running Ruin alone, the first thing I'm doing is looking for ruin because he has the speed to force people off gens constantly and I've seen Blight games snowball so fast that not a single gen reached above 70%. However if I go against the same killer with no ruin, the first thing I'm doing is slamming a gen until I feel like we're in a semi-comfortable position to go look for totems, chests, or other things.
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Well there is no turning back now, is there? Survivors already learned that slamming gens is the best strategy. They won´t suddenly unlearn this if the devs remove slowdown perks.
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Show me where I said to remove gen slow.
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Ok, if thats all what you can say to defend your theory of gen regression perks being bad. Then thx for the discussion.
EDIT: i want to add, that the slowdown per se or the regression are kinda bad for the killer. At least in comparison to other perks.
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DBD has had a lot of balance changes made around the optimal time survivors can do gens in a match. Its not perfect, but its undeniable that most balance changes were made on the assumption t hat it takes survivors 5-7 minutes to do all generators as oppose to 10-12., which would be a more balanced match. With these gen speeds at baseline, the devs introduced a tone of anti gen perks too help counteract the gen speeds. Now if the gen speeds are not done in an optimal time, the game tilts heavily in favour of killer, and thus survivors actually need to genrush tin order to stand a chance against stronger killers.
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So you pretend to gotcha while saying the exact same thing as me. Ok.
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Playing smart vs ruin and "I wouldnt gen rush if killers didnt have gen slowdown" are two different beasts. You highlighted the one perk that survivors can actually impact by playing differently. If the killer has pop how does that impact your playstyle? Other than some extremely niche perk + map combos there's not really a lot you can do differently as a survivor other than "dont get hooked lul". My problem lies in "if killers didnt have stacked slowddown I wouldn't gen rush!!" Not playing smart vs Ruin/Dead mans switch/eruption.
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But it's not just limited to ruin. The more gen slowdown perks a killer has, the more time pressure they have on the survivor team. If gens are flying and only 1 or 2 people have been hooked, I stop doing gens and look for totems (mostly to make sure NOED doesn't come into play). But it's only because I don't feel pressured for time at that point and feel I am safe to do those thing.
If I know the killer has scourge hooks, pop, deadlock or something else that is going to slow the game down, my main focus becomes the gens because I have to ensure the team even MAKES it to endgame before I can worry about anything else
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I have been leveling Pyramid to p3 before prstige rewards and I dont have many perks unlocked as I grind up p2... been running noed instead. I have like 100 cakes I gotta burn so dont care win or lose gotta go through these matches fast
Guess what? I am enjoying the faster games and the outcome is still the same, I am beginnning to prefer the faster matches without all the gen protection LOL
noed over ruin baby they never do all the bones, and it forces them to leave the match and not toy around, its great
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Nah, but your statement was kinda ambigious. It could have meant bad for survivors and bad for killers. Thats why i added the edit. Because i confirm the later one, not the former one and i wasn´t sure about your statement.
EDIT: i want to add, that i was getting comments from 2 different threads where slowdown perks where discussed.
It wasn´t my intention to do a "gotcha" and want to apoligize for reading your comment wrong.
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The one issue I have with Corrupt Intervention is the best strategy against it is probably to hide it out. If all the survivors just go and hide in random spots and the killer doesn’t happen to have a good way to find them it can lead to the first 90 seconds of the match being nothing happening at all and then the match begins from square one at that point.
The good news for killers who use Corrupt Intervention is most survivors don’t do that. Either they’re solo and not on comms so they’re not aware gens farther away from them are blocked, or they just instinctively start doing gens when they see them without considering whether Corrupt is in place, or they don’t hide or are just bad at hiding. And it only takes one of the four survivors not hiding for the killer to find them somewhat quickly, down them and thus put pressure on the rest to not wait the perk out because they’ll need to rescue the dying player.
So even though I don’t use Corrupt because of that potential slow start which I find a bit tedious, I totally understand why it’s is one of the most popular killer perks currently.
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So who do you look at?
Billy bob who started yesterday and focus all balance on somebody clueless?
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Therefore i gonna hope if corrupt becomes basekit. That instead 3 gens next to each other on the killer spawn side are blocked until the first gen is done. Would avoid a boring stall out and could make the game tactical more interesting with giving survs the challenge to avoid this 3 gen midgame.
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The devs kind of hinted that they’re looking somewhat broadly as why gen slowdown is so popular compared to other perks and are tweaking the base game to shake things up. So I wouldn’t be that surprised if they make a weakened form of Corrupt Intervention where gens are blocked for the first 30 seconds just be part of the game or make gen progression be a sliding scale where the first gens take longer to complete than the later gens, etc. Basically something to slow down that initial progress somewhat but still have the overall balance of the game when killers decide to also run slow down on top of that not change from the current state. (I.e. extra slow down for loadouts that have none but that doesn’t directly buff perks which inflict slowdown themselves.)
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Ill take anything in this direction, it can only go uphill from here.
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Sure, average player here. Without gen slowdown perks 2-3 gens finish after one chase, if I'm lucky. With slowdown perks, one gen is still likely to pop after a chase. Gens are too fast, and if you don't have a killer without map presence, your likely going to get screwed by even half way decent survivors. And Dead Hard. Its not the free health state (though that is a problem) its the distance to get to a pallet they should not have been able to reach, extending the chase.
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It's a vicious cycle, if you don't run meta you often get stomped by competent players.
You usually can do a meme build but everyone almost always has that one strong perk for security.
Right now the Devs are doing something massive to the game during the 6th Anniversary Stream, I wonder what will it be.
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You're just describing playing smart to me. I suppose another way of re-wording my complaint is that no matter what unless base mechanics change gen-rushing as a tool will be available to the survivor arsenal no matter what. If we pretend every regression perk got deleted out of the game tomorrow, what would stop survivors from playing as they are now? Nothing, except some vague honor code/the survivors themselves choosing to do so.
This is the same argument to me that "killers wont camp/tunnel if genrushing is gone!" Imagine every gen takes triple the time and all second chance perks are deleted. What will stop a killer from hard focusing a survivor and still getting them out asap vs spreading hooks? Again nothing is the answer, it would still be a tool in the killer players arsenal that they could choose to leverage at any time. As long as the tool remains available to use then people will abuse it no matter what. Changes to genrushing/camping/tunneling cannot be done at just the perk level, the base game itself needs to change as well.
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Its the opposite,it's genrushing that further reinforce slowdown/killer meta perks in general.
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If you don't equip gen regression perks they still gen rush and the gens are done too quickly.
Two days ago I played Trapper with a troll build I copied from from TheEntityLeftHand without a single gen regression/protection perk just for fun and most of the matches were fun but I lost around 7/10 matches due the gen speeds despite the survivors being potatos in almost all of these matches.
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