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NOED and new Killers
Hey, I saw Otz's video on NOED and I've stated something similar before so I just wanted to throw this out for discussion.
I also agree and think NOED is harmful to new killers in the long term and puts them in an MMR hellscape. We also see that, from the MMR data, it's not even that effective of a perk as its use drops off the higher you go up in MMR.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not slamming NOED as a perk. In fact, I sometimes run it with Blood Warden, Remember Me and/or No Way Out as an end game build where I play most of the match perkless (but, to be honest, if I don't get at least six hooks before end game I just open the gates and let the survivors leave to keep my MMR from inflating).
However, I do think the effectiveness of NOED at low to mid MMR is exactly why it needs to redesigned. It's not that effective as you go up in MMR and it's easily countered with experience; not by people new to the game. It's effective until it's not and then new killers are stuck in an MMR ranking that they can't handle and frustrated.
Anyway, I hope it gets a huge rework as part of the health update.
Comments
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Something that Otz forgot about in his video.
Noed is an unlocked perk from the start, new killers don't have the options to run many perks, here is a list not including killer's personal perks:
Bitter murmur
Claustrophobia
Deerstalker
Disstressing
Fearmnger
noed
thrill of the hunt
insidious
iron grasp
jolt
monstrous shrine
sloppy
spies from the shadows
unrelenting
whispers
Now, it might seem like much, but let's remove perks that are weak (including whispers because you need it on t3 and it can still be hard to give value for new players)
Bitter murmur
noed
insidious (i list it because many new players can use it for camping)
jolt
spies from the shadows
So yeah... they don't really have that many options, especially when you realise that a lot of killers (especially free ones) have only 1 good perk, so running noed is very natural choice for new players... game literally spoon feeds you with the idea of running noed and then mmr punishes you for it.
NOED only highlightes issue of new players don't having any tools to use, which since death of demogorgon isn't that apparent since players got jolt, the only gen stalling perk that doesn't require unlocking.
Then remember how much grind is to unlock perks you need to play... by playing without perks you need.
Dead by Daylight is just unwelcoming for new players.
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he also has yt videos showcasing “strongest killer builds” and runs noed on some killers and he even ran it in some of his streaks.
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The argument isn't that NOED shouldn't be run. The argument is that it hinders new killers from learning the skills they need to have at higher MMR.
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I agree killers should learn without it. When I started I didn’t use ruin or noed.
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That's what I did too. It's a good approach.
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I made a thread about this recently, you can see some of the replies there.
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Meanwhile in Otz Sheet for Killer builds:
Non-teachable builds are mostly for new players (No DLC, not much perks teached yet)
You can find NOED in my builds for many killers there.
I don't think it's great to keep NOED there for not so much experienced players because it's kinda like "you should play without it to learn the game" but "also you can run it it's good".
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I think a better way to address this whole NOED situation is not by nerfing the Perk itself, but by changing the way Dull Totems work slightly to help newer players and solo Survivors to deal with them easier.
I think we should have a distinct noise notification play for every player when the last Totem has been cleansed.
This would have two big effects on solo Survivors and newer players:
- when the sound plays, they now know not to waste any more time trying to locate Totems anymore
- for as long as the sound has not played, they know that there is at least one Totem remaining on the map, meaning NOED is a possibility
Both of these are information SWF groups have access to anyway, so this would also help bringing solo Survivors and SWF groups closer together.
A rework for NOED is something that, if it is done right, I can definitely get behind, but IMO such a rework should not make the Perk any weaker than it currently is - but more fair (for both sides) by having its strength vary based on how many Totems remain on the map with the Perk active.
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Nah, they should give noed the same love they give to MoM
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they did
noed was nerfed numerous times into the nerfed hex version we have today and they still complain
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I'd take anything he says with a grain of salt.
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when was the last time you see MoM? Or new OoO? Because I see noed a lot
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First and foremost, what @DrDeepwound said is correct. Hex: No one Escapes Death is one of the Perks with the longest change history in the whole game, mostly nerfs at that.
And it actually did go through the exact same journey that old Mettle of Man went through: it started out as a Perk that just passively activated with a gamechanging effect that had no counterplay to it whatsoever and is now in a spot where said effect is bound to Totems, which allows counterplay from the Survivor side - just like they bound MoM's effect to protection hits to allow for counterplay from the Killerside.
And secondly, due to this previous change history, current NOED is not at all comparable to MoM anymore. Comparing the two is like comparing apples with oranges, it doesn't work. And pick rates have absolutely nothing to do with this, I really dont know why you decided to bring that up.
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I don't think Otz's overall point was 'Don't use NOED'.
I think his point is 'Don't rely on noed to get kills instead of learning to get better with powers & killer pressure'
Which I think is a valid point
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Otz is nice but has an hard time putting himself in the place of players with 7000 less hours of experience than him.
NOED is fine btw.
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Easier than learning.
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Noed is as fine as dh
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Probably because there are way better OP perks for survivors. That will change.
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